Dwight Howard wants to be a HAWKS?

[iDash]

I will wait till 2012, if its earlier we would lose a piece that would help us win the title

[mrhonline]

Dwight is one of the few players I would be okay trading Horford for.

[MrNique]

We are all just dreaming here, but the thing to do would be to assure we play Horford next to Howard. He's almost a perfect 4 to put next to him thanks to his range.

If it was a trade, the #1 piece would be Josh, but like others have said, that might hurt Dwight wanting to come home if it means Josh is gone. But I don't think those two would be good together, unless Josh makes more strides by the end of next season.

If it was a free agent pickup, this is what we currently have on the books post next year:

Joe $19 + 3 more years

Josh $13 + 1 more year

Marvin $9 + 1 more year (ETO)

Al $12 + 3 more years

Zaza $5.2 (last year)

Teague $2.5 (team option)

That's about $61 million. I think the trick would be to sell Marvin and Zaza for expirings, to have more money and only have Joe/Josh/Al and Teague on the books. About $46 million. Then we should have enough to offer him a max.

[sasuke]

Sorry but, this illusion needs to end. Howard isn't coming via trade & we won't have cap space to sign him. Please stop.

[Admin]

Sorry but, this illusion needs to end. Howard isn't coming via trade & we won't have cap space to sign him. Please stop.

Nobody knows what the CBA will look like and what the new salary cap will be set at so you can't say that for sure. It's probably unlikely but there's no harm in discussing it, especially if he really wants to play in Atlanta. Just look at the way that Carmelo forced his way to NY as an example of it being possible if both parties want it to happen.

[Superiorblogman]

I doubt there is any truth to this but if it is I would rather just sign him without a trade.

[tonegully]

Im not getting rid of Horford for anyone.

[HawksBalla]

They'd probably want Al in return. Obviously it wouldn't make sense for DW to come here if Josh isn't going to be here.

Exactly, Josh would be a major reason why Howard would consider coming here. Horford would be the main piece of the Hawks offer.

[sasuke]

Nobody knows what the CBA will look like and what the new salary cap will be set at so you can't say that for sure. It's probably unlikely but there's no harm in discussing it, especially if he really wants to play in Atlanta. Just look at the way that Carmelo forced his way to NY as an example of it being possible if both parties want it to happen.

Well, there's a lot of rumoring about a hard cap in the new CBA. something around 52 mill. even if that's not accurate, we will need to give up on next season by dumping a lot of salary a la Heat or NY & run the risk of not landing him in free agency. In case of a S&T besides Al, there's nothing else we can offer to appeal Orlando. They won't take JJ in a Million years. The best package will be Smove & Al for Howard & filler with horrible contract & in case that happens JJ & Howard with 0 cap space left isn't good enough to become contenders.

I rather use the MLE, BAE & Vet min next season (if any of those exemptions still on the new CBA) to sign guys like Dalembert, T-Mac, Mohamed, Haddadi, Hill or if the right deal is available for Smove pull the trigger.

[MaceCase]

Nobody knows what the CBA will look like and what the new salary cap will be set at so you can't say that for sure. It's probably unlikely but there's no harm in discussing it, especially if he really wants to play in Atlanta. Just look at the way that Carmelo forced his way to NY as an example of it being possible if both parties want it to happen.

1) If one of the main sticking points for owners of small market teams is that they can't keep their franchise players why would they go for a new CBA that makes it easier for them to lose them?

2) Carmelo was able to force his way to a team that had the full capability of signing him outright in the summer yet still got raped of all their assets.

The Hawks and any team that does not have that threat will get the absolute F U from the Magic front office if and when it comes to any trades during the season or SnT during the offseason no matter how badly he wants LA or ATL. If a team that could just sign Melo were forced to give up the farm you would imagine that a team that can't sign Dwight will have to start their trading bid with BOTH Smoove and Al to even get their GM out of bed.

[Sothron]

1) If one of the main sticking points for owners of small market teams is that they can't keep their franchise players why would they go for a new CBA that makes it easier for them to lose them?

2) Carmelo was able to force his way to a team that had the full capability of signing him outright in the summer yet still got raped of all their assets.

The Hawks and any team that does not have that threat will get the absolute F U from the Magic front office if and when it comes to any trades during the season or SnT during the offseason no matter how badly he wants LA or ATL. If a team that could just sign Melo were forced to give up the farm you would imagine that a team that can't sign Dwight will have to start their trading bid with BOTH Smoove and Al to even get their GM out of bed.

I think you are missing the only reason why the Knicks gave up so much: Carmelo would lose out on his 3 year 62 million dollar extension if he waited to sign as a free agent. Dwight's impending free agency will be handled after the new CBA is hammered out. I doubt the Magic would have the same clout in trading Dwight that the Nuggets had in wanting to trade Carmelo.

[AHF]

I doubt there is any truth to this but if it is I would rather just sign him without a trade.

You would have to find a way to clear an amazing amount of cap space to do that - under the current cap structure you'd need to clear about $30M. I don't think it is a realistic possibility to stay competitive and clear the cap space to sign a max free agent given this team's current salary commitments.

I think you are missing the only reason why the Knicks gave up so much: Carmelo would lose out on his 3 year 62 million dollar extension if he waited to sign as a free agent. Dwight's impending free agency will be handled after the new CBA is hammered out. I doubt the Magic would have the same clout in trading Dwight that the Nuggets had in wanting to trade Carmelo.

My guess is that the reverse is likely to be true - that teams will have more leverage over their franchise players under the new CBA.

[MaceCase]

I think you are missing the only reason why the Knicks gave up so much: Carmelo would lose out on his 3 year 62 million dollar extension if he waited to sign as a free agent. Dwight's impending free agency will be handled after the new CBA is hammered out. I doubt the Magic would have the same clout in trading Dwight that the Nuggets had in wanting to trade Carmelo.

The Knicks gave up so much because their owner is an idiot. When faced with possibly getting Melo at a discount next summer as opposed to giving up assets and a higher salary any logical GM would side with the former, this was Walsh's original plan. Dolan brought in his good buddy Isiah and they overruled Walsh's meticulous plan because of an irrational fear that Melo valued the extension over all else and would sign it no matter what team he was traded to including the rival Nets. If this was actually the case then wouldn't Denver of felt confident about keeping Melo and not bother bowing down to his trade demands? Now again, if the owners are complaining that players have too much leverage in the current CBA why would the next one allow them even more liberties?

[AHF]

The Knicks gave up so much because their owner is an idiot. When faced with possibly getting Melo at a discount next summer as opposed to giving up assets and a higher salary any logical GM would side with the former, this was Walsh's original plan. Dolan brought in his good buddy Isiah and they overruled Walsh's meticulous plan because of an irrational fear that Melo valued the extension over all else and would sign it no matter what team he was traded to including the rival Nets. If this was actually the case then wouldn't Denver of felt confident about keeping Melo and not bother bowing down to his trade demands? Now again, if the owners are complaining that players have too much leverage in the current CBA why would the next one allow them even more liberties?

Carmelo would be in NJ if the Knicks didn't do a S&T for him.

He wanted to get the extension more than pick the team of his choice. Denver could have gambled on him resigning with them, but that was a high stakes gamble since they get Leboned if he just walks in FA to another team and even if they "win" and he resigns you have to worry about whether he is committed to the team or if they are looking at him sabotaging things until he forces a trade ala Steve Francis, Vince Carter, etc.

It makes all the sense in the world for Denver to trade Carmelo and would have been a huge gamble for the Knicks to hope that Carmelo so prefers New York to Brooklyn that he is willing to give up millions of dollars to make it happen. Whether they truly needed to throw in everything they did is the big question in my mind. Chandler was gone even if they signed Carmelo as a FA so that was no loss; Billups may be an upgrade over Felton with the same length of contract so that isn't a big deal; but the pick and Gallinari is where it starts getting questionable for me.

Edited March 4, 2011 by AHF

[EazyRoc]

I would trade Al Horford for Dwight Howard, but he'd be the last player I would want to trade. We'd be an absolutely dominant defensive team with Dwight Howard no matter who we trade away. He can lock down the paint, and he's improved offensively. He's going to win defensive player of the year for the 3rd time I believe, and he's only 25 years old. He's the best big man in the league, and I think he will be for the next 5 years at the least.

[MaceCase]

Carmelo would be in NJ if the Knicks didn't do a S&T for him.

He wanted to get the extension more than pick the team of his choice. Denver could have gambled on him resigning with them, but that was a high stakes gamble since they get Leboned if he just walks in FA to another team and even if they "win" and he resigns you have to worry about whether he is committed to the team or if they are looking at him sabotaging things until he forces a trade ala Steve Francis, Vince Carter, etc.

It makes all the sense in the world for Denver to trade Carmelo and would have been a huge gamble for the Knicks to hope that Carmelo so prefers New York to Brooklyn that he is willing to give up millions of dollars to make it happen.

Yes, it made perfect sense for Denver to trade Carmelo knowing that he could and would leave them high and dry but if the extension was his main goal all along then they would of had all of the leverage to resign him or could of opened up the trade to every team in the league rather than being handcuffed to the Tri-State area. Really was a lot of smoke being blown around during that saga and the Nets were happy to play along or Denver happy to string them along to drive up the asking price because Carmelo's intention was always the Knicks and whatever threat of him losing money due to the CBA are still unfounded and then you have the addition of all the endorsement money that he is slated to make in NY. From last summer everyone was saying that all the top free agents would stay with their team due to the leverage of being able to pay more in salary but every suitor came by with power points detailing that they could beyond offset that loss with endorsement deals. None of that has changed, whatever opportunities that were offered to Wade and Lebron still remain and being in the NY area also allows his wife to be a greater earner herself for her entertainment career. Either way, Walsh held all of the cards but he's employed by a very powerful yet unintelligent inheritor that jumped the gun and raised the offer.

[AHF]

Carmelo's intention was always the Knicks and whatever threat of him losing money due to the CBA are still unfounded and then you have the addition of all the endorsement money that he is slated to make in NY. From last summer everyone was saying that all the top free agents would stay with their team due to the leverage of being able to pay more in salary but every suitor came by with power points detailing that they could beyond offset that loss with endorsement deals. None of that has changed, whatever opportunities that were offered to Wade and Lebron still remain and being in the NY area also allows his wife to be a greater earner herself for her entertainment career. Either way, Walsh held all of the cards but he's employed by a very powerful yet unintelligent inheritor that jumped the gun and raised the offer.

I don't know how you can conclude that it was unfounded, though. Carmelo's desire for that money is why he publicly met with NJ and why he said he might stay with Denver to get the extension in the week before the Knicks upped their offer. Unless you know something more than what is reported in the press, you can only say that Carmelo clearly wanted the money more than he wanted to play with a better supporting cast in NY and that it is unverifiable what would have happened if NY had refused to up their offer. My feeling is that Carmelo wanted to do everything he could to get to New York with the extra money but whether he was willing to waive money to go to NY is a very open question in my mind.

I do agree that Dolan and Thomas are morons and likely gave too much. I just don't buy the argument that they simply could have signed Melo as a FA. My guess (because all you can do is guess) is that he would have felt disrespected by NY being unwilling to deal for him so he could get the extension and would have gone to Brooklyn to get his money. Carmelo and his agent were clearly part of the scheme to drive up the price for the Knicks to get the deal done and deliver Carmelo to NY at his highest possible salary.

Edited March 4, 2011 by AHF

[batfanjordanv]

Smoove also tried to convince Billy Knight to take Rajon Rondo , I cry a little inside everytime I think about him being on our team :sorry: ....

Same here. We passed up on so many good draft picks. We could've gotten Rajon, Deron Williams, Chris Paul, but we ended up with Marvin and Josh Smith. They are good, but Rajon, Deron, and CP3 are all better.

[AHF]

Same here. We passed up on so many good draft picks. We could've gotten Rajon, Deron Williams, Chris Paul, but we ended up with Marvin and Josh Smith. They are good, but Rajon, Deron, and CP3 are all better.

We passed on Paul and Deron to take Marvin.

We passed on Rondo for Shelden Williams.

Josh Smith was drafted before any of them and didn't block us from getting any of them. I wouldn't mention him in that post. Obviously, though, I would love to see Rondo in a Hawks uniform.

[MaceCase]

I don't know how you can conclude that it was unfounded, though. Carmelo's desire for that money is why he publicly met with NJ and why he said he might stay with Denver to get the extension in the week before the Knicks upped their offer. Unless you know something more than what is reported in the press, you can only say that Carmelo clearly wanted the money more than he wanted to play with a better supporting cast in NY and that it is unverifiable what would have happened if NY had refused to up their offer. My feeling is that Carmelo wanted to do everything he could to get to New York with the extra money but whether he was willing to waive money to go to NY is a very open question in my mind.

I do agree that Dolan and Thomas are morons and likely gave too much. I just don't buy the argument that they simply could have signed Melo as a FA. My guess (because all you can do is guess) is that he would have felt disrespected by NY being unwilling to deal for him so he could get the extension and would have gone to Brooklyn to get his money. Carmelo and his agent were clearly part of the scheme to drive up the price for the Knicks to get the deal done and deliver Carmelo to NY at his highest possible salary.

Perhaps unfounded was the wrong choice of words, maybe "not concrete enough" would fit better? Either way, there were a whole mess of reports flying back and forth each contradicting each other heading into that weekend and the Nets owner himself saying that he wouldn't meet with Carmelo. Them meeting at the All Star break just seemed like taking advantage of the situation to me considering that the league were holding meetings that weekend also so I'm sure most owners were already present. Either way, I think a conspiracy of sorts was put together between the Denver management to get Melo to publicly meet with Prok even if he had little interest in his offer to get the Knicks to sweat more especially as they were getting closer to the trade deadline. Plenty had already argued that the trade plans that everyone knew the details to were being made public by the Nuggets front office in order to get the Knicks to up their offer from Curry+Chandler and maybe a pick of which they were seemingly steadfast on sticking to. In the end the "amateur hour" of the Denver front office made out very well with cap savings, picks and prospects and Carmelo ended up with his destination of choice and his extension. In my mind it's just not possible that that happened without both front office and player working together. I would like to think that the Nets played along just so I can increase the mystique of their owner but it's more likely that he was just strung along from the beginning and that Melo didn't have enough fear of the upcoming CBA to turn down creating his own superteam in the Mecca.

Either way, if the extension was the all important factor to Melo then he would of been forced to resign with Denver. Even if he was disgruntled they would of had more leverage in a deal for 4 years of Melo rather than half a season of him but If the rumors of the new CBA are not as prohibitive as they are being made to seem then the Denver front office could have faced the chance that he walked for nothing. In hindsight it's clear that they found a middle ground and it worked, how that would apply to us in 2012 on the other hand? Well let's just simply say that it doesn't.