Off season nonsense: Did Allen Iverson hurt the NBA?

[MVP23]

I'm doing my senior project on this, and would love some feedback. I don't really post on other NBA message boards, so....

Anyway, to sum things up as best as I can, if you look at the NBA from 1999 (Strike year) to roughly 2008, ratings fell through the floor. The NBA was tagged as the "thug" league and interest fell. Why? A few reasons in my opinion. David Stern made a terrible mistake by marketing Allen Iverson, instead of guys like Ray Allen. A.I is what many people consider to be a "thug". The tats, the background, the talk, the dress etc. Personally I hated Iversons game because score first Pgs never win anything, and to me watching him was like watching a WWE event, purely entertainment, and no substance. Many people also consider A.I the founder of Hip Hop culture when he crossed over Jordan. Everybody wanted to be like Allen Iverson, instead of MJ. Not just in play, but in all other aspects of life. Mainstream rappers (who were and still are complete garbage) were now wearing NBA jerseys, and rap was played at NBA games. To counter this image, Stern enforced a dress code, the right move imo. Sure, Steve Nash DID come to the games dressed like a bum, but...come on, we all know the real reason Stern made the players wear suits to the games, but I don't have a problem with it. Also, the brawl. The brawl only gave validity to the "Thug" league BS. That turned off a key demographic. If you look at the typical NBA fan, in that era, he was a 35 year old white male. The biggest demographic that fell during that era was the white one. If you look at NBA viewership, whites make up about 70% of the NBA fanbase. Lets not forget that 70% of the NBA is black. I don't think race ever played a role in the lack of interest. The culture however did, and always will. I'm not white, but if I was a 35 year old white male in 1999-2007 I wouldn't have cared much about the NBA. The culture of the game was rotten, not to mention the actual basketball was pretty bad as well. Allen Iverson, the face of the league at the time in my opinion was the cause of all of this. His "practice" rant, his lifestyle, everything about him was bad news for the NBA.

Now, if you come to 2008- today, the faces of the league are Jordan Esque in manner. Derrick Rose, who is dumb as a brick is still a humble nice guy. Lebron is an *ss, but he is a mature decent dude. Kevin Durant is the Shawn Michaels of the NBA. Personally, I think he is an overrated spotty scorer, but the guy is humble, quiet, etc. This appeals to all different kinds of people, and guess what? Ratings are up. Game 1 of Bulls v Heat was the highest rated cable basketball game ever. Playoff ratings are up in general. Interest is up. The faces of the league aren't thugs. They are actually decent guys you could "have a beer with" and people in general like that. The best player that people would consider a "thug" is Jr freaking Smith, and even he is bearable.

Please, give opinions..

[Joker]

I think people senses of their stereotypes came back when MJ left. He had a greater than life aura around him and all people gravitated to it. When he retired, you had guys like Kobe but people always look for the worst and no one was more deadly than A.I. He brought the prison culture to all facets of American society so yes, A.I. was very bad for the NBA after the fact. The product wasn't that good in the 90's and early 2000's. The difference was we had MJ and he was a draw by himself. It became noticeable when MJ retired as well. Now the product is much better so people want to watch. Baseball biggest issue is the quality of their product right now. They don't have the athletes they had when Griffey and Lofton was playing. Those guys are playing Football and Basketball. That's my biggest issue with Baseball, the players just aren't as talented as they used to be. Griffey Jr, Aaron, and those guys just aren't playing Baseball anymore.

[MVP23]

I spent more time typing the OP than I have watching baseball in the last 5 years....not including Sportscenter highlights, which you're basically forced to sit through..

[Wretch]

I think fear, greed, and stereotypes has affected the league more so than any player not named Michael Jordan. On Jordan - he was an athlete that transcended the arena. There have been a few of those kinds of players throughout history of sports and because of their performances were bigger than the game, it drew a lot of attention. That's a cash cow for David Stern and knowing that MJ would not last forever, he allowed the game to be centered around it's stars - hoping that Jordan reincarnate (Grant Hill, Kobe Bryant, LBJ) would one day have the same draw.

Iverson was first and foremost a human - not a machine. Basketball is what he did, not who he was. He was a young black man and typical for his generation/background. His job was to play basketball and his work uniform was a jersey and shorts. Outside of work, one would expect him to be just like the rest of us - wearing what we like and behaving in a manner analogous to our lifestyle/upbringing. The connection between African Americans and basketball is not new, neither is fear. Thusly, as MJ (and Bird/Magic) brought popularity and visibility to the sport, so did more of the public get a better view of the game as a whole. Fear that these people would not identify with the players dressed in baggy clothes, tattoos, hats, and gold chains and in turn not identify with the game is what prompted the change.

Personally, I do not agree with the motive. However, I do think that as an ambassador of the game, at work (not necessarily working), the players have a responsibility to look decent. Moreover, it is in everyone's better interest to promote the game. I can't think of anyone who really likes pompous, bratty, self entitled, millionaires...flaunting $500K worth of jewelry isn't exactly going to help in that regard. Actors, singers, etc. wear such things and the public has little to no issue with it, but these people are appreciated for their flair and art - as opposed to an athlete that is generally appreciated for his heart, tenacity, and skill. I digress though...

It wasn't just Iverson who showed up with Tattoos and "And1" game. There were scores of them and there were plenty of scoring "combo guards" as well - throughout the history of the game, long before Iverson showed up. You might be familiar with one such player that accomplished quite a bit:

Not blessed with great size, strength, or dribbling ability, [this player] made up for these deficiencies with pure hustle and an apparent lack of regard for his body.

...but we're not talking about Iverson who sacrificed his body on the court night in and night out. He isn't praised for playing with a separated shoulder, busted appendages, and getting slammed around in the paint - playing like a guy twice his size. He's dogged for being who he is. I have a lot of personal gripes with Iverson - mostly his ego. But the man loved the game of basketball and bled all over the court for it.

I wouldn't say that he hurt the NBA, and I don't believe that he was any more of an influence on it than N.W.A. or Kurtis Blow:

[Randy]

I think you might be onto something. I would fit the demographic you mention except I'm a bit too old. (50's). But, I did think the NBA tarnished its image in the past decade. AI wasn't that much on my own radar, but I was aware of him and all the trouble he seemed to get into. I don't know how much was AI being marketed by the NBA and how much was just him getting bad ink in the press for his misdeeds.

For myself, there were some other things that were a real problem for the NBA. First, was losing in the Olympics. I thought that was inexcusable. Second, the Hawks going down the JR Rider path and firing Lenny Wilkins along the way. The JR Rider epsode does seem to fit your theory about the NBA becoming a game for thugs. I lived in Seattle around the time they won the Finals and was big fan of Wilkins.

As for the Detroit/Indiana brawl, I was a Pacer fan since the team was founded, and thought it was just an isolated incident. Artest is a head case, for sure, but my recollection (might be wrong) was that the fans jumped into the fight, and it escalated from there. There is a lot of animosity between Detroit and Indiana so this was sort of par for the course.

There were a few more issues for the NBA. One was by going to drafting guys out of high school, they ruined the college game and stocked the league with a lot of guys who didn't know fundamentals. Instead of guys coming in from college with reputation of their own, the guys coming in were pretty much unknown. Some just rotted on the bench, while othes became stars.

Sounds like a good projecta and good luck with it.

Edited May 23, 2011 by Randy

[TRUEINTELLECTPLAYA]

Great job noticing that this is offseason nonesense

[dlpin]

the decline in popularity had less to do with the perception of athletes as thugs and more with the decline of big market teams. People who see nba players as thugs aren't fans anyways.

Ratings for finals since 96

NBC 1996 Chicago Bulls 4, Seattle Supersonics 2 16.7

NBC 1997 Chicago Bulls 4, Utah Jazz 2 16.8

NBC 1998 Chicago Bulls 4, Utah Jazz 2 18.7

NBC 1999 San Antonio Spurs 4, New York Knicks 1 11.3

NBC 2000 Los Angeles Lakers 4, Indiana Pacers 2 11.6

NBC 2001 Los Angeles Lakers 4, Philadelphia 76ers 1 12.1

NBC 2002 Los Angeles Lakers 4, New Jersey Nets 0 10.2

ABC 2003 San Antonio Spurs 4, New Jersey Nets 2 6.5

ABC 2004 Detroit Pistons 4, Los Angeles Lakers 1 11.5

ABC 2005 San Antonio Spurs 4, Detroit Pistons 3 8.2

ABC 2006 Miami Heat 4, Dallas Mavericks 2 8.5

ABC 2007 San Antonio Spurs 4, Cleveland Cavaliers 0 6.2

ABC 2008 Boston Celtics 4, Los Angeles Lakers 2 9.3

ABC 2009 Los Angeles Lakers 4, Orlando Magic 1 8.4

ABC 2010 Los Angeles Lakers 4, Boston Celtics 3 10.6

Unsurprisingly, the lowest ratings came during the era when the 4 biggest basketball markets in the nation (la, ny, chicago, boston) were not competitive.

[ATLJA316]

I wouldn't say that he hurt the NBA, and I don't believe that he was any more of an influence on it than N.W.A. or Kurtis Blow:

+1 for Kurtis Blow.

This might be a stretch, but I have to wonder if Iverson's selfish play and unsportsman-like conduct will have any effect on the bball development of youth that idolized him a few years ago, that may soon be entering the NBA...

[Diesel]

In that 9 - 10 yr period, it was not about Iverson.

It was about Jordan leaving the game.

Jordan was the one guy who brought the game to more people. Example

5.0 out of 5 stars AIR JORDAN'S BEST VIDEO BY FAR!!, July 20, 2001

By

Chill Hebbert (Cumbria,England) - See all my reviews

This review is from: Michael Jordan - Come Fly With Me [VHS] (VHS Tape)

This is easily the best NBA video around.I wasn't sure at first but when I watched Jordan's gravity defying dunks and shots it blew me away!It has got more spectacular highlights than any other NBA video I have ever seen.It starts off with Jordans childhood on the baseball field,then his brilliant college days,then to the best stuff...his early days in the NBA where he earned lots of awards.Made before he stunned the world by leading the Bulls to a double three-peat,this tape captures the glory days of both slam-dunk contests,his injury and how he came by it to become the best player ever,all his dunks,lay-ups and game winners,his success in the olympics in L.A,and his own commentary on what it was like to be such a star performer.There is also some footage of his greatness at golf aswell.Only one dissapointment,not enough footage of his All-Star games.I ordered this over-seas because Britain dosent sell NBA videos.Also great service from Amazon.Buy this if you are an NBA fan and want to witness the greatest player ever...AIR JORDAN!

or

5.0 out of 5 stars The way basketball was meant to be played, July 7, 1999

By A Customer

This review is from: Michael Jordan: Playground [VHS] (VHS Tape)

A ballet on the basketball court. It motivates you to do your best. The art of dunking reaches a new level.

or

5.0 out of 5 stars The most brilliant, dazzling toony featuring our great M.J.!, May 3, 2000

By

R. Garcia "Beeyotch" (Brockport, NY) - See all my reviews

(REAL NAME)

Hmmm...let's see... a very clever, crafty storyline,...eye-stunning animation,...very witty visual gags...really cool characters, including our classic old friends from the Looney Tunes and the the world's best basketball player ever to be born and carefully nurtured...with a few really bold gross-out shots thrown in ... and all mixed together...YOU GET SPACE JAM! You will never see your most favorite WB characters the same way again - they are animated far more graphically than they had ever been in their old cartoons of the Golden Age. Included are the new characters like the cigar-chewing Mafia boss from Mars with his very tall and muscular "Monstars" basketball players and Lola Bunny who hates to be called "doll" and then acts like a doll, much to Bugs Bunny's delighted, heart-thumping infatuation. Oh, and don't forget a very round nerdball that looks just like he finally escaped being eaten alive by a fan-faced dinosaur at Jurassic Park, too! Oh, you will truly thrill at such a zany, bumpy-bouncing space adventure amusement park ride with all your god-witnessed heroes, both live action and animated alike!

Do you notice the theme??

Jordan marketed to Children. Those Children grew up in he 90s with MJ and when MJ left the game, there was nobody able to step in hisplace.

Kobe was good and would have been the next MJ.. but Kobe, never had a video.

Neither has Lebron, Dwade, or Iverson. The point is that MJ took basketball to new heights and at the same time ruined it.

When MJ's gambling came out is when I believe Stern stopped promoting his players to children. I think the Kobe case only reinforced it... and the Pistons vs. Pacers made it a guarantee that Stern could not push this league onto Children the way it once was.

Don't give MJ all the credit, he had really good help....

This is the thing.. Marketing makes a difference.

[AHF]

AI had a big marketing impact as well, though. It wasn't on Jordan's level but it was deliberately aimed towards a more urban audience than Jordan was so the two largely weren't competing for the same market. AI's marketing (intentional and unintentional) ran counter to Jordan's "give a great smile and appeal to the masses" marketing. He was the authentic, hardcore guy who brought downtown street appeal instead of the Main Street appeal of Jordan.

As of 2008, Jordan was the all-time NBA jersey sales leader while Allen Iverson was #3 all-time.

That is popular enough to make an impact for sure.

[macdaddy]

This is also the high school era when a ton of the top players were coming into the league at 18 years old. While I think not allowing that anymore is illegal, its probably a good thing.

[coachx]

the decline in popularity had less to do with the perception of athletes as thugs and more with the decline of big market teams. People who see nba players as thugs aren't fans anyways.

Ratings for finals since 96

NBC 1996 Chicago Bulls 4, Seattle Supersonics 2 16.7

NBC 1997 Chicago Bulls 4, Utah Jazz 2 16.8

NBC 1998 Chicago Bulls 4, Utah Jazz 2 18.7

NBC 1999 San Antonio Spurs 4, New York Knicks 1 11.3

NBC 2000 Los Angeles Lakers 4, Indiana Pacers 2 11.6

NBC 2001 Los Angeles Lakers 4, Philadelphia 76ers 1 12.1

NBC 2002 Los Angeles Lakers 4, New Jersey Nets 0 10.2

ABC 2003 San Antonio Spurs 4, New Jersey Nets 2 6.5

ABC 2004 Detroit Pistons 4, Los Angeles Lakers 1 11.5

ABC 2005 San Antonio Spurs 4, Detroit Pistons 3 8.2

ABC 2006 Miami Heat 4, Dallas Mavericks 2 8.5

ABC 2007 San Antonio Spurs 4, Cleveland Cavaliers 0 6.2

ABC 2008 Boston Celtics 4, Los Angeles Lakers 2 9.3

ABC 2009 Los Angeles Lakers 4, Orlando Magic 1 8.4

ABC 2010 Los Angeles Lakers 4, Boston Celtics 3 10.6

Unsurprisingly, the lowest ratings came during the era when the 4 biggest basketball markets in the nation (la, ny, chicago, boston) were not competitive.

Bingo ! +1

The NBA was simply not a competitive league from 1999 - 2005.

The Pistons snuck in for 1 championship but the Western Conference was so much better then the East dureing that era that many casual fans quit watching the playoffs.

There have also been rule changes that have completely changed the way the NBA game is played. Many basktball purist who are over 55 do not watch the NBA. I am talking about life long college and HS basketball coaches here . The art of shooting has been lost. The league used to be flooded with shooters when the hand check was legal b/c it was so darn hard to score off the dribble when a guy can put his hands on you. This made ball movement and half court sets more necessary for efficiency. Now with no hand checks, touch fouls, and "wimpy flagrant 2 calls" the league is full of a bunch of slashers who can't shoot as well as the players before them.

The NBA game are the International game can still both be classified as "basketball" but just barely since the rules are so different.

To answer your question you need to start your time line in the 70s when the ABA and NBA merged. The game began to change then with DR J and Pistol Pete going to the NBA.

Then came Magic and Bird to take it up a notch with rivals on each coast of the country that had roots going back to an NCAA Championship game.

Then came Jordan to take the NBA to its all time peak.

When Jordan retired for 2 years the league survived due to the wars between 7 footers (David Robinsons vs. Hakeem in the West and Ewing vs. Shaq in the East). In both Finals you had HOF 7 footers as the 2 best players. (1994 NY & Ewing vs. Houston and Hakeem. Of course NY and Pat Riley maintained ratings. Then Hakeem vs. Shaq in the 1995 Finals. That is something we had not seen since Russell vs. Wilt.

Then Jordan comes back for a 3 year run.

Then the Perfect Storm happens. Jordan and Jackson retire from the Bulls at the same time as the Strike that shortened the season. After that there was no competive balance between the East and West.

Edited May 24, 2011 by coachx

[AHF]

This is also the high school era when a ton of the top players were coming into the league at 18 years old. While I think not allowing that anymore is illegal, its probably a good thing.

It is not illegal as long as it is collectively bargained with the players.

If there was no Union, it would violate anti-trust law. Since there is a Union, it is legal.

[Marvin24Williams]

We talkin bout' practice. Not a game, not a game, not a game, we talkin bout' practice.

[Diesel]

Bingo ! +1

The NBA was simply not a competitive league from 1999 - 2005.

The Pistons snuck in for 1 championship but the Western Conference was so much better then the East dureing that era that many casual fans quit watching the playoffs.

There have also been rule changes that have completely changed the way the NBA game is played. Many basktball purist who are over 55 do not watch the NBA. I am talking about life long college and HS basketball coaches here . The art of shooting has been lost. The league used to be flooded with shooters when the hand check was legal b/c it was so darn hard to score off the dribble when a guy can put his hands on you. This made ball movement and half court sets more necessary for efficiency. Now with no hand checks, touch fouls, and "wimpy flagrant 2 calls" the league is full of a bunch of slashers who can't shoot as well as the players before them.

The NBA game are the International game can still both be classified as "basketball" but just barely since the rules are so different.

To answer your question you need to start your time line in the 70s when the ABA and NBA merged. The game began to change then with DR J and Pistol Pete going to the NBA.

Then came Magic and Bird to take it up a notch with rivals on each coast of the country that had roots going back to an NCAA Championship game.

Then came Jordan to take the NBA to its all time peak.

When Jordan retired for 2 years the league survived due to the wars between 7 footers (David Robinsons vs. Hakeem in the West and Ewing vs. Shaq in the East). In both Finals you had HOF 7 footers as the 2 best players. (1994 NY & Ewing vs. Houston and Hakeem. Of course NY and Pat Riley maintained ratings. Then Hakeem vs. Shaq in the 1995 Finals. That is something we had not seen since Russell vs. Wilt.

Then Jordan comes back for a 3 year run.

Then the Perfect Storm happens. Jordan and Jackson retire from the Bulls at the same time as the Strike that shortened the season. After that there was no competive balance between the East and West.

Somewhat true. But Ewing, Hakeem, Robinson wasn't media magnets like Jordan. Did any of them have a commercial? A shoe to talk about??

When you consider the effect of Jordan leaving the game, he was a league grown star that had/has Nike promoting him hugely... and he had been marketed to Kids as he made his rise... When he leaves, there was nobody to pick up the mantle. Nobody has the shoe sales of MJ. No where close. No one has the number of advertisement that MJ had... no where close. Shaq tried... he milked his success the best he could. But he falls very short.

I think there's going to be another star who comes along and gets it and markets and becomes great at the same time. It can't be Lebron or Wade. It will have to be 1 guy... Unfortunately, that guy hasn't shown up yet. But you will know him because he will not only captivate the media, he will have his own reality show.

[DJlaysitup]

We talkin bout' practice. Not a game, not a game, not a game, we talkin bout' practice.

That's one thing that got on my nerves - a symptom of problems to come. That sort of thing is (IMO) one of the reasons the league will fight hard to reduce guarranteed contracts. Longterm guarranteed contracts are death to a coach. He may as well say "please, please play some Defense"...then stand back and watch.

I mean seriously...we have coaches trying their damndest - pulling their hair out - to get defensive effort in PLAYOFF GAMES. Holy Cow! Has it come down to the point that giving max effort to win simply isn't cool anymore?

As far as how the hip-hop culture got out of hand and turned off the white fans...yes, yes...that's reality

Reminds me of a story I once read about the Gay culture (and this is not to put down gays..just making a point):

A guy lives in San Jose with his family and one of his neighbors is a gay couple. They are nice fellas and they keep up their lawn and never cause a problem. He hears that there is a "Pride Parade" in downtown San Francisco and figures this would be a neat event to take his kids to...a parade would be fun and he could teach them an object lesson that gay people were really no different than them. So they get downtown to the parade and the first thing they see is six gay guys in G-strings and chaps riding a giant D!ldo float yelling "Yee Haw - Ride that Cowboy!".

A local reporter see them and walks up and asks "What do you think of the parade?". The father responds "These people are FREAKS...let's get the hell out of here!"

...now obviously the vast majority of gay people aren't freaks...the majority are just like the guy had living in his neighborhood...but when the culture makes it cool to "act freakishly" you can't blame folks for responding that way.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

(All) Basketball fans understand that the game is dominated by African Americans. Not a problem, nor should it be. True basketball fans go to see the best of the best play against each other. Many (at least in my age bracket) also would like to see a quality well-coached team playing the game as it should be. We don't care what color the coach is...but the me me me me "whine every time a foul is called" players get on my nerves.

P.S. - I was totally surprised the other night watching the post game presser when Boozer was being interviewed. Here is a guy who looks like the white man's worst nightmare. Shaved head - beard - Tats all over him....he could have made a living in the Circus in the 1930s as the "Wild Man from Borneo"....then he starts talking about the game and he sounds like a regular guy and actually makes some very good points. I think it's more the costumes these guys wear more than anything...and yes...A.I. was big in making that cool...it's simply gotten out of hand.

I also think that (the lack of) Tats are why JJ and AL make the All-Star team....maybe AL more than JJ.

Edited May 25, 2011 by DJlaysitup

[gsuteke]

It is not illegal as long as it is collectively bargained with the players.

If there was no Union, it would violate anti-trust law. Since there is a Union, it is legal.

So what if a HS Senior doesn't want to join the Union? At that point would he have a case against the NBA since he is not a part of that organization that collectively bargained that clause?

[AHF]

So what if a HS Senior doesn't want to join the Union? At that point would he have a case against the NBA since he is not a part of that organization that collectively bargained that clause?

No. It doesn't affect the legality of the terms of the CBA if a HS senior, a HS junior, a HS sophmore, etc. doesn't want to join the Union. When these terms are collectively bargained, they are exempt from anti-trust law. That doesn't mean they still can't illegal under some other law (for example, a maximum age for the NBA would violate the age discrimination in employment act) but minimum age requirements and the like aren't unlawful when collectively bargained.

Often unions will trade extra benefits (or lesser cuts) for current members in exchange for giving up rights of future members. That is the premise, for example, behind two-tier wage structures. You have an overpaid workforce but instead of bringing the senior employees to a competitive rate, the union bargains for lower rates for future employees in exchange for protecting the premium wages of senior workers.

Edited May 25, 2011 by AHF

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Good discussion.

I would agree with Diesel, and say that Jordan's departure and the immediate decline of the Bulls, was the #1 reason.

Look back at 90s. The Bulls were by far the most dominant and visible team in the league. Meanwhile, the teams that were dominant in the 80s ( Lakers, Celtics, Pistons, Sixers ) were all sorry.

So if you were a casual basketball fan in the 90s, the team you'd latch onto would be the Bulls. No one in the East was consistent enough to challenge them throughout the entire decade.

The Knicks came the closest. But even with them, Patrick Ewing wasn't the most marketable player in the world.

Jordan retires, Phil Jackson leaves, and Scottie Pippen AND Dennis Rodman all leave in the same year. The Bulls go from team of the decade, to one of the worst teams in history.

The bandwagon Bulls fans are left in limbo. Who would they root for?

Eventually, about 50% of them rooted for the Lakers, after Shaq and Kobe matured enough to win championships. But even they couldn't equal what Jordan brought on and off the court.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

MVP . . . here's a thought. If you're going to focus on how Iverson led to the decline of the league, do it in a way that almost has him as the "Anti-Jordan".

Nike ( Jordan ) vs Reebok ( Iverson ) . . and how Reebok purposely marketed AI's street image.

Shaved bald head vs Cornrows . . . and how that hairstyle of Iverson's was perceived by average NBA fans as "rebellious and thuggish" . . while Jordan's shaved head was "stylish and safe". Make sure to cite how each generation of fans adopted each hairstyle.

Philly vs Chicago . . . from a rudeness standpoint, and how that enhanced and maybe even influenced Iverson's image as a "bad boy" in the NBA

The "Practice" interview . . and how that illustrated how Iverson wouldn't strive for excellence at all times, even to the detriment of his teammates . . . while Jordan would push his teammates to the limit in practices, striving for excellence at all times.

Dream Team vs Team Nightmare . . how Iverson was the face of the Olympic disappointment in 2004, while Jordan and his crew dominate the world back in 1992

R&B vs Hip-Hop . . . Jordan's style and personna represented the cool, laid back, and smooth aspect of the R&B music that dominated the 80s and early 90s ( think Keith Sweat ) . . Iverson represented the brash, outspoken, I don't care aspects of hip-hop ( think Tupac ).