Is Zaza one of the Top 20 worst players in the NBA?

[Colin]

Two wrongs don't make a right. So since a gm made a dumb move by offering Kwame Brown $7mill for year we should believe that he's worth it and Zaza's worth that much? Nooo!!! You get out of here! I wouldn't give him that contract NBA2K12.

What does being a guard have to do with it? Now ask yourself this, is Zaza in the top 20 in his position? Of this list of players, who's Zaza better than?

Dwight Howard

Andrew Bynum

Marc Gasol

Javale McGee

Roy Hibbert

Greg Monroe

Tyson Chandler

Al Jefferson

Spencer Hawes

Marcin Gortat

Marcus Camby

Joakim Noah

Emeka Okafor

Deandre Jordan

Chris Kaman

Samuel Dalembert

Tim Duncan

Channing Frye

Derrick Favors

Brendan Haywood

Kendrick Perkins

Jordan Hill

Robin Lopez

Joel Anthony

Omer Asik

Byron Mullens

Darko Milicic

Timofey Mozgov

Jason Thompson

Chris Andersen

Jason Maxiell

Ben Wallace

Nazr Muhammad

Tiago Splitter

Let me go ahead and grab a snicker bar... Take your time

[Colin]

Using NBA hotspots thing, Zaza was 20/38 from 16-23 feet in 2009-2010 for 53%. That same year, Horford was 64/139 for 46%. Whoever says he has no shot is a bum, he is shooting 84% free throws this year as well. His poor shooting percentage is always due to his love of getting his own rebounds by missing a couple times first. Fact of the matter is, if Zaza plays with confidence, he is actually a GOOD player (evidenced by how he dominates other NBA players in international play when he is the go-to guy).

Zaza has a bit of a shot, a knack for drawing fouls, hits his free throws, offensive rebounds well, plays tough, doesn't back down, and gets under the opponent's skin. If you want more than that from a backup center, you're asking for too much.

[EazyRoc]

Two wrongs don't make a right. So since a gm made a dumb move by offering Kwame Brown $7mill for year we should believe that he's worth it and Zaza's worth that much? Nooo!!! You get out of here! I wouldn't give him that contract NBA2K12.

What does being a guard have to do with it? Now ask yourself this, is Zaza in the top 20 in his position? Of this list of players, who's Zaza better than?

Dwight Howard

Andrew Bynum

Marc Gasol

Javale McGee

Roy Hibbert

Greg Monroe

Tyson Chandler

Al Jefferson

Spencer Hawes

Marcin Gortat

Marcus Camby

Joakim Noah

Emeka Okafor

Deandre Jordan

Chris Kaman

Samuel Dalembert

Tim Duncan

Channing Frye

Derrick Favors

Brendan Haywood

Kendrick Perkins

Jordan Hill

Robin Lopez

Joel Anthony

Omer Asik

Byron Mullens

Darko Milicic

Timofey Mozgov

Jason Thompson

Chris Andersen

Jason Maxiell

Ben Wallace

Nazr Muhammad

Tiago Splitter

Let me go ahead and grab a snicker bar... Take your time

You cited as his weaknesses shooting and ball handling. I was basically saying those skills dont matter much because he's a big. He's better than about 4 or five of those centers, but I could probably come up with another 20 players he's better than starting with our own roster.

[jhay610]

Zaza is the most "heady" player in the league.

Z uses his head on the court and is an irritating presence to opposing players and fans alike.

He's at the head of the class when it comes to cultural pursuits such as fashion, food and music as well.

He's been known to plunge headfirst into his off-the-court endeavors including the opening (and closing) of restaurant/bar/club.

He is owner of perhaps the most famous head-butt in franchise history (see KG, 2008 NBA playoffs).

As an aside, some would say his head is rather large.

Edited January 17, 2012 by jhay610

[Gray Mule]

Quick hands. No one ever mentions the fact that Zaza has been known to

steal the ball occasionally with his quick hands. Doesn't happen a lot.

Opponents have learned. Don't go to sleep on Zaza. He'll pick your pocket.

GO HAWKS! - - - -GO ZAZA!!

He's a good back up center

Our starter right now, usually.

[CarverC]

No, but i definatly know why you feel that way. Some games, it seems he can't even catch the ball. Passes and rebounds go right through his hands, and some of his shots just look horrible, like there is no chance of it going in. Other games, he out hustles everbody and grabs 10 boards.

[willthepureshooter]

No, but i definatly know why you feel that way. Some games, it seems he can't even catch the ball. Passes and rebounds go right through his hands, and some of his shots just look horrible, like there is no chance of it going in. Other games, he out hustles everbody and grabs 10 boards.

Now that's an honest assessment! Yes he hustles and grabs 10 boards one game but then he screws up the next three. I think he should spend more time working on his offense. We need him to finish at the bucket. I can't bare to see Twin start another game except for guarding Howard.

[AHF]

Now that's an honest assessment! Yes he hustles and grabs 10 boards one game but then he screws up the next three. I think he should spend more time working on his offense. We need him to finish at the bucket. I can't bare to see Twin start another game except for guarding Howard.

Your assessment isn't honest. He is averaging a per36 of 12 points and 10 rebounds this year. And you think he is one of the worst 20 players in the league? That is assinine.

If you look at his games you break them out by per 36 minute production into:

Great - Game 1 - 22 points, 19 rebounds; Game 3 - 17 points, 13 rebounds; Game 5 - 24 points, 12 rebounds; Game 8 - 17 points, 7 rebounds

Fine - Games 2 - 14 points, 5 rebounds; Game 4 - 9 points, 9 rebounds; Game 9 - 10 points, 9 rebounds; Game 11 - 13 points, 8 rebounds; Game 12 - 11 points, 11 rebounds; Game 13 - 11 points, 9 rebounds; Game 14 - 12 points, 6 rebounds

Bad - Game 6 - 0 points, 5 rebounds; Game 7 - 0 points, 6 rebounds; Game 10 - 0 points, 11 rebounds;

Again, these are per 36 numbers and they break out into 4 great games, 3 bad games, and 7 fine games based on the productivity you would want from your backup center.

That is far from the picture of "he hustles 1 game and then screws up the next 3" that you are trying to paint.

You are coming off like you are grinding an ax on this one.

[Admin]

Your assessment isn't honest. He is averaging a per36 of 12 points and 10 rebounds this year. And you think he is one of the worst 20 players in the league? That is assinine.

If you look at his games you break them out by per 36 minute production into:

Great - Game 1 - 22 points, 19 rebounds; Game 3 - 17 points, 13 rebounds; Game 5 - 24 points, 12 rebounds; Game 8 - 17 points, 7 rebounds

Fine - Games 2 - 14 points, 5 rebounds; Game 4 - 9 points, 9 rebounds; Game 9 - 10 points, 9 rebounds; Game 11 - 13 points, 8 rebounds; Game 12 - 11 points, 11 rebounds; Game 13 - 11 points, 9 rebounds; Game 14 - 12 points, 6 rebounds

Bad - Game 6 - 0 points, 5 rebounds; Game 7 - 0 points, 6 rebounds; Game 10 - 0 points, 11 rebounds;

Again, these are per 36 numbers and they break out into 4 great games, 3 bad games, and 7 fine games based on the productivity you would want from your backup center.

That is far from the picture of "he hustles 1 game and then screws up the next 3" that you are trying to paint.

You are coming off like you are grinding an ax on this one.

Let me preempt his response here with what I'm sure is coming...

"Yeah but you're using stats and math and stuff and that's BS. I'm going off of what I see and that's the real truth."

[willthepureshooter]

Your assessment isn't honest. He is averaging a per36 of 12 points and 10 rebounds this year. And you think he is one of the worst 20 players in the league? That is assinine.

If you look at his games you break them out by per 36 minute production into:

Great - Game 1 - 22 points, 19 rebounds; Game 3 - 17 points, 13 rebounds; Game 5 - 24 points, 12 rebounds; Game 8 - 17 points, 7 rebounds

Fine - Games 2 - 14 points, 5 rebounds; Game 4 - 9 points, 9 rebounds; Game 9 - 10 points, 9 rebounds; Game 11 - 13 points, 8 rebounds; Game 12 - 11 points, 11 rebounds; Game 13 - 11 points, 9 rebounds; Game 14 - 12 points, 6 rebounds

Bad - Game 6 - 0 points, 5 rebounds; Game 7 - 0 points, 6 rebounds; Game 10 - 0 points, 11 rebounds;

Again, these are per 36 numbers and they break out into 4 great games, 3 bad games, and 7 fine games based on the productivity you would want from your backup center.

That is far from the picture of "he hustles 1 game and then screws up the next 3" that you are trying to paint.

You are coming off like you are grinding an ax on this one.

Oh gosh, we have more statistical analysis again! LOL! I provided the list earlier so who on that list wouldn't be better than Zaza?? You can talk me to death with Per 36 statistics, which doesn't mean much in the real world. Those same statistics gave Marvin and Bibby those horrible contracts. Get real!

[Sothron]

I'll "get real" with you. Zaza is one of the best backup centers in the NBA. Read: BACKUP center. Your list had almost every starting center on it. Well no shinola Sherlock of course he's not going to be better than most teams STARTING center. For someone to be "one of the top 20 worst players" they'd have to be on 10 day contracts or swapping time in the NBDL and NBA. Those are your worst 20 players. Putting Zaza anywhere near that list is flat out laughable.

Quick, someone start a "Jeff Teague is in the top 20 worst players" thread because out of 32 teams starting point guards he's not going to crack the top fifteen. THE HORROR!

[Guest]

Oh gosh, we have more statistical analysis again! LOL! I provided the list earlier so who on that list wouldn't be better than Zaza?? You can talk me to death with Per 36 statistics, which doesn't mean much in the real world. Those same statistics gave Marvin and Bibby those horrible contracts. Get real!

You are MISSING the point....YOUR list is a list comprised of STARTERS, Zaza is a BACKUP. When you provide the backup list, with minutes, stats and salaries, then you have something worth comparing. Otherwise you are

[jy23]

So just in case you hadn't figured this out yet from everyone else's response this thread is dumb, and that list u gave is even dumber!!!!! That is all

[AHF]

Let's look at your list of Zaza's comparables for a real life discussion.

Starters paid more than Zaza or Not Available to Hawks B/C On Rookie Contracts

Dwight Howard - Starter - #1 overall pick - DPOY - All-Star - 1st Team All-NBA - $18 million per season

Andrew Bynum - Starter - Lottery Pick; 2012: 17 ppg, 14 rpg, 2 bpg, likely 2012 All-Star - $15 million per season

Marc Gasol - Starter - 2012: 14 ppg, 11 rpg, 20 PER; $13 million per season

Javale McGee - Starter - Rookie contract; #2 shotblocker in 2011, #1 shotblocker in 2012

Roy Hibbert - Starter - 2012: 17 ppg, 12 rpg, 20 PER

Greg Monroe - Starter - Lottery pick; 17 ppg, 9 rpg, 26 PER

Tyson Chandler - Starter - Numerous top 10 finishes in rebounding and shooting efficiency; All-NBA Defense; $13 million per year

Al Jefferson - Starter - 19 ppg, 9 rpg, 21 PER; $14 million per year

Spencer Hawes - Starter - Rookie contract lottery Pick; 10 ppg, 9 rpg, 22 PER

Marcin Gortat - Starter - 14 ppg, 8 rpg, 24 PER; $7 million per year (one of the best deals in the entire NBA)

Marcus Camby - Starter - #1 overall pick; Career 10 ppg, 10 rpg, 2.6 bpg; $11 million per year

Joakim Noah - Starter - Lottery pick - 2011: 12 ppg, 11 rpg, 1.5 bpg; 19 PER; All-Defense; $12 million per year

Emeka Okafor - Starter - #2 overall pick; Career 13 ppg, 10 rpg, 2 bpg, 17 PER; $12.6 million per year

Deandre Jordan - Starter - Top 10 Shotblocker 2010 & 2011; $10 million per year

Chris Kaman - Starter (85% starts over career; 50% this season) - $14 million per year

Samuel Dalembert - Starter - Top 10 Shotblocker Every Season / Top 10 Career Among Active Players - $13 million 2011, $7 million 2012

Tim Duncan - Starter - Top 20 Player in NBA History, $21 million per year

Channing Frye - Starter - Stretch PF, not a center (http://www.82games.c...PHO11.HTM#bypos) - starts next to Gortat; $5.6 million

Brendan Haywood - Starter - $7.6 million, not as productive as Zaza (Z - 6 points on 54% TS%, 5 boards, 14.5 PER - Brenda - 5 points on 48% TS%, 6 boards - 11.8 PER)

Kendrick Perkins - Starter - Multiple top 10 in blocks; $7 million per year; 9.6 PER to Zaza's 14.5 PER

Jordan Hill - Starter (>50% starts this year) - Lottery pick on rookie contract - Worse PER than Zaza

Joel Anthony - Starter - Fewer PPG, RPG and worse PER than Zaza

Byron Mullens - Starter - 13 ppg, 6 rpg, 19 PER, rookie contract

Darko Milicic - Starter - Fewer PPG, RPG and worse PER than Zaza; $4.8 million per year

Timofey Mozgov - Starter - Fewer PPG, RPG and worse PER than Zaza

We'll start by doing the easy thing and eliminating all the starters. Zaza is a backup and comparing him against starters like Dwight Howard et al makes sense like comparing Willie Green to Kobe Bryant and the other SG starters makes sense (i.e., it doesn't).

Reserves Who Are On Rookie Contracts and Unavailable to the Hawks and/or Who Don't Play Center

Omer Asik - Reserve - Rookie contract - Fewer PPG and worse PER than Zaza; better defender

Robin Lopez- Reserve - Fewer PPG, RPG and worse PER than Zaza; rookie contract

Derrick Favors - Reserve - #3 overall pick - 14.8 PER versus 14.5 PER for Zaza; better defender, not as effective offensively (yet)

Jason Thompson - Reserve - Better scorer, worse rebounder than Zaza; rookie contract

Jason Maxiell - Reserve - Fewer PPG, RPG and worse PER than Zaza; $5 million per year; plays >75% of minutes at PF and less than 10% of team's minutes at center (http://www.82games.c...DET11.HTM#bypos)

Tiago Splitter - Reserve - More PPG, fewer RPG and same PER as Zaza; rookie contract

We are eliminating these players because they aren't guys Atlanta could have signed as a backup center. What is the point in arguing that the #3 overall pick in the draft would make a better reserve than Zaza?

ACTUAL COMPARABLES FROM THE LIST

Actual Comparables Who Have Worse Numbers Than Zaza And Are Paid Equal or Less

Ben Wallace - Reserve - Fewer PPG, RPG and worse PER than Zaza - 18 total points this season; cheaper than Zaza

Nazr Muhammad - Reserve - Fewer PPG, RPG and worse PER than Zaza; cheaper than Zaza

Actual Comparables Who Have Arguably Better Numbers than Zaza and Are Paid Equal or Less

Chris Andersen - Reserve - Fewer PPG, fewer RPG, better defender than Zaza; cheaper contract

So you have identified 3 people who Atlanta could have theoretically signed cheaper than Zaza and he has put up bigger numbers than any of them. The only one with an argument is an argument based on per minute productivity in Chris Andersen.

I would trade Zaza for Andersen at their prices so kudos in identifying one player on your entire list that would make a better backup center than Zaza at his price.

Edited January 17, 2012 by AHF

[lethalweapon3]

Willie Green (sorry homie)

Jannero Pargo (sorry pal)

Jason Collins (sorry buddy)

Keyon Dooling

Jermaine O'Neal

Sasha Pavlovic

Corey Maggette

Bismack Biyombo

DeSagana Diop

Alonzo Gee

Samardo Samuels

Ryan Hollins

Semih Erden

Austin Daye

Dahntay Jones

Lou Amundson

Joel Anthony

Dexter Pittman

Larry Sanders

Tobias Harris

Johan Petro

Shelden Williams

Damion James

Shawne Williams

Josh Harrellson

Mike Bibby

Bill Walker

Jared Jeffries

Von Wafer

Chris Duhon

Jodie Meeks

Tony Battie

James Johnson

Linas Kleiza

Jamaal Magloire

Andray Blatche

H.W.N.S.N.B.M.

Ronny Turiaf

That's the East so far. Lunch break!

~lw3

[Popeye]

Oh gosh, we have more statistical analysis again! LOL! I provided the list earlier so who on that list wouldn't be better than Zaza?? You can talk me to death with Per 36 statistics, which doesn't mean much in the real world. Those same statistics gave Marvin and Bibby those horrible contracts. Get real!

U provided a list with 95% of them starters.... ur topic says one of 20 worst players in nba.... I say he is better than 100 players in NBA...

[willthepureshooter]

U provided a list with 95% of them starters.... ur topic says one of 20 worst players in nba.... I say he is better than 100 players in NBA...

First, this isn't my topic. Secondly, I provided the list for the person whom said Zaza was in the top 20 centers in the NBA.

[AHF]

I provided the list for the person whom said Zaza was in the top 20 centers in the NBA.

Who is that person? I don't see any such post.

[hazer]

http://www.nba.com/news/features/2012-gm-survey/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt1

NBA GMs give Zaza an honorable mention as one of the toughest players in the entire league

[Watchman]

Now that's an honest assessment! Yes he hustles and grabs 10 boards one game but then he screws up the next three.

Oh...kind of like "Smoove."???