Cunningham Blog on Hawks' Salary Cap

[Admin]

Naw, Marvin can play. His issues like being anti-aggressive isn't as big of an issue in a real offense, not Atlanta's bull shit that no one who half court minded can succeed in. Shane Battier would look underwhelming in our system. Our system reward and personnel rewards individual skill and talent over fundamentals, decision making, and smart Basketball. He is really a solid player, will never be that for Atlanta but for most teams, he would be an effective starter. T. Prince level, not as complete of a player. Glue guy role.Marvin game is decent. He does more good than bad in terms of evaluations.

Man quit it with the "tape" and "evaluations" as if you're the only one who's seen him. Every one of us has seen him play hundreds of games over a 7 year period plus must of his watched him in college and even knew about him coming out of high school.And wow, T. Prince level? LMAO

[Diesel]

There is probably no chance that we're trading Marvin and getting cap space for it. He's just not that valuable. You're putting him in the same league as a guy like Lamar Odom who was coming off of winning the 6th man of the year and even then it took a team with a trade exception and no fear of the luxury tax to trade for him. Marvin is an extraordinarily average player and nobody is going to give up 8 million of their cap space for him.Anyone have a list of the teams who are under the salary cap next year and the amount they're under?

If I could guess what Marvin could get us..I would say guys like Crawford or Salmons or Maggette.. but that's about it. Not draft picks.

[Joker]

I would be shocked if we could trade Marvin without taking back salary.We are in the same position we've been in for years now: our cap is eaten up by a handful of players and the owners refuse to pay the luxury tax which means our bench is nothing but vet. min. contracts. We have nothing off the bench except for Zaza going into next season. I think the guys we really saw playing well off the bench like Pargo and Willie will find other teams to sign for.I said it in another thread but I truly wish we could just blow up our roster keeping Horford and Teague and starting over from that. That means trading Joe if we can find someone willing to take that salary.

That would crush Atlanta. No point in that. Marvin is a solid starting level SF. You guys love the idea of trading him to he proves that Atlanta is a piece of shit in terms of offense and he looks like a quality SF. You don't want that to happen unless you get a good offer for him. Doing a bad deal just to get rid of a guy is something a guy like Diesel would do, not a legit NBA GM.

[Joker]

It's not the offense. It's Marvin. Marvin gives nothing. His non-aggressiveness is a trait that kills his ability to impact the game. PERIOD. We could run play after play.. as long as Marvin's first mind is to defer, he's useless.

For the Hawks it does. But when Rondo did it early on his career, T. Prince did it, it was looked at differently. Atlanta is like a lion kill. You better get in and eat or your ass isn't eating. Teams with real offenses find ways to get their guys good looks. Atlanta will ignore you even when you are hot. This isn't a real NBA level offense.

[KB21]

I would be shocked if we could trade Marvin without taking back salary.We are in the same position we've been in for years now: our cap is eaten up by a handful of players and the owners refuse to pay the luxury tax which means our bench is nothing but vet. min. contracts. We have nothing off the bench except for Zaza going into next season. I think the guys we really saw playing well off the bench like Pargo and Willie will find other teams to sign for.I said it in another thread but I truly wish we could just blow up our roster keeping Horford and Teague and starting over from that. That means trading Joe if we can find someone willing to take that salary.

The ownership's issue is not the fact that they are reluctant/unwilling to pay the luxury tax. That is actually a sound financial decision. The biggest issue here is that this is an ownership group that needs to run this team like a small market team but would rather give the impression that they have the funds to to run this team just below the salary cap.The fact that this team's salaries is 75% of their revenue shows this, IMO. This ownership group has made some horrible decisions on contracts during their tenure in Atlanta. There needs to be a paradigm shift in the thought process of this ownership group, and they really need to start studying successful small market teams like San Antonio, Utah, and Oklahoma City.

[Sothron]

That would crush Atlanta. No point in that. Marvin is a solid starting level SF. You guys love the idea of trading him to he proves that Atlanta is a piece of shit in terms of offense and he looks like a quality SF. You don't want that to happen unless you get a good offer for him. Doing a bad deal just to get rid of a guy is something a guy like Diesel would do, not a legit NBA GM.

I've seen what we can do with this core and I want out. There's no upside here. We need a coach that will see Horford as the beast in waiting that myself and others think he is and will build the offense around him accordingly. I do agree with you that our offense is laughably bad since all we are is a jump shooting team that has two guys that are ball dominant when one of them (Josh) has no reason whatsoever to be. It is no secret the other players on the court like Horford, Teague, Marvin or whoever else has to basically just stand on the wings and hope for an outlet pass.

[Guest]

For the Hawks it does. But when Rondo did it early on his career, T. Prince did it, it was looked at differently. Atlanta is like a lion kill. You better get in and eat or your ass isn't eating. Teams with real offenses find ways to get their guys good looks. Atlanta will ignore you even when you are hot. This isn't a real NBA level offense.

This is the only thing you have said that makes any sense.

[NekiEcko]

Here is my take about this:61m for 6 players, that is a avg of 10 mil and that is way too much for this core, somebody has to move no matter what. I get nbasuperstar40 saying about trades but at the same time, I dont really feels that excuse is going to coax over the Hawks fans that been screaming for change since two season ago. My feeling is this, This team has ran its course and it time for some upgrades or they will be see more empty seats in Phillips and that wont be good anybody.

[coachx]

Anyone have a list of the teams who are under the salary cap next year and the amount they're under?

http://www.hoopsworld.com/whose-got-cap-space

Charlotte Bobcats

2012-13 Cap Figure: $43.0 million

Traded Player Exceptions: 2 – $3.5 million (Shaun Livingston), $1.5 million (Gerald Wallace)

Utah Jazz

2012-13 Cap Figure: $52.6 million

Traded Player Exceptions: 2 – $10.9 million (Mehmet Okur), $1.8 million (Deron Williams)

Houston Rockets

2012-13 Cap Figure: $40.8 million

Traded Player Exceptions: None

Golden State Warriors

2012-13 Cap Figure: $48.1 million

Traded Player Exceptions: None

Washington Wizards

2012-13 Cap Figure: $45.6 million

Traded Player Exceptions: None

Toronto Raptors

2012-13 Cap Figure: $41.9 million

Traded Player Exceptions: None

Cleveland Cavaliers

2012-13 Cap Figure: $31.5 million

Traded Player Exceptions: None

Sacramento Kings

2012-13 Cap Figure: $44.1 million

Traded Player Exceptions: None

Indiana Pacers

2012-13 Cap Figure: $36.3 million

In my opinion Golden State is the team with the best chance of trading us the #7 pick for Josh Smith with no bad salary coming back. They wanted Josh at the trade deadline last March. That tells me that Mark Jackson would not be against coaching Josh unlike many other NBA coaches. That would open up enough room to use the MLE.

Of course I hope that Washington or Sacremento target Josh Smith and we get a pick better then #7. I just can't see why either club would be confident enough, in their ability to resign Josh longterm, that they would trade away a top 5 pick to aquire such an adverse risk.

I can't see a team trading a pick (with no additional salary) for Marvin Williams. The reason is simple. They can probably get a player who is better then Marvin, in free agency, for less money then what Marvin makes now......and of course FA comes after the draft.

Edited May 17, 2012 by coachx

[Joker]

Man quit it with the "tape" and "evaluations" as if you're the only one who's seen him. Every one of us has seen him play hundreds of games over a 7 year period plus must of his watched him in college and even knew about him coming out of high school.

And wow, T. Prince level? LMAO

I wasn't comparing the two. Just saying he was anti-aggressive. Prince>Marvin.

I've seen what we can do with this core and I want out. There's no upside here. We need a coach that will see Horford as the beast in waiting that myself and others think he is and will build the offense around him accordingly. I do agree with you that our offense is laughably bad since all we are is a jump shooting team that has two guys that are ball dominant when one of them (Josh) has no reason whatsoever to be. It is no secret the other players on the court like Horford, Teague, Marvin or whoever else has to basically just stand on the wings and hope for an outlet pass.

Agree but Atlanta can't afford to make a bad move either especially when a player does have value.

[Joker]

http://www.hoopsworld.com/whose-got-cap-spaceIn my opinion Golden State is the team with the best chance of trading us the #7 pick for Josh Smith with no bad salary coming back. They wanted Josh at the trade deadline last March. That tells me that Mark Jackson would not be against coaching Josh unlike many other NBA coaches. That would open up enough room to use the MLE.Of course I hope that Washington or Sacremento target Josh Smith and we get a pick better then #7. I just can't see why either club would be confident enough, in their ability to resign Josh longterm, that they would trade away a top 5 pick to aquire such an adverse risk.I can't see a team trading a pick (with no additional salary) for Marvin Williams. The reason is simple. They can probably get a player who is better then Marvin, in free agency, for less money then what Marvin makes now......and of course FA comes after the draft.

Nic Batum wants 10-11 milGerald Wallace wants 10 mil.Marvin is better than the rest of the guys in FA at the position who are rotational at best no matter the system or fit.Marvin has a lot more value to NBA GM's than on HS and for a lot of reasons too. Edited May 17, 2012 by nbasuperstar40

[Diesel]

For the Hawks it does. But when Rondo did it early on his career, T. Prince did it, it was looked at differently. Atlanta is like a lion kill. You better get in and eat or your ass isn't eating. Teams with real offenses find ways to get their guys good looks. Atlanta will ignore you even when you are hot. This isn't a real NBA level offense.

The excuse machine has been crunk up once again and a new Marvin excuse has popped out. So now it's not "he's too young." Now it's not " it's Woody's offense". Now it's not " Bibby doesn't pass to him". Now it's not "Crawford and joe dominate the ball too much". The New excuse is " Atlanta is like a lion kill and if you're not in there, you ain't eating.". Is that even an excuse? I mean an old broken down vetmin like Tmac can get in the game and have an impact. Even a short guy like Mean Willie Green can have more impact than Marvin. So now, this is the second coach to be blamed for not drawing plays up specifically for Marvin. What should we do.. Run Marvin off a Pick? Run some Pick and Roll with Marvin? Ok... the visual is bringing laughter and tears to my eyes. I see Marvin falling down hard.

[Joker]

The excuse machine has been crunk up once again and a new Marvin excuse has popped out. So now it's not "he's too young." Now it's not " it's Woody's offense". Now it's not " Bibby doesn't pass to him". Now it's not "Crawford and joe dominate the ball too much". The New excuse is " Atlanta is like a lion kill and if you're not in there, you ain't eating.". Is that even an excuse? I mean an old broken down vetmin like Tmac can get in the game and have an impact. Even a short guy like Mean Willie Green can have more impact than Marvin. So now, this is the second coach to be blamed for not drawing plays up specifically for Marvin. What should we do.. Run Marvin off a Pick? Run some Pick and Roll with Marvin? Ok... the visual is bringing laughter and tears to my eyes. I see Marvin falling down hard.

It's not an excuse. It's the truth.No one in their right mind is running Marvin for a PnR. As a cutter, without question but to set the screen or run the PnR, not a chance. Willie Green is a scrub on most basis, to say he has more impact shows why Diesel logic is a coined term and it's not positive either. Edited May 17, 2012 by nbasuperstar40

[Plainview1981]

Basically we are screwed.

Put this core out of it's misery as much as possible please. Only don't ship the players to contenders. I'm tired of seeing former players go to the finals or win titles with other teams: Ex: Deke, JT and Sheed.

[Joker]

Put this core out of it's misery as much as possible please. Only don't ship the players to contenders. I'm tired of seeing former players go to the finals or win titles with other teams: Ex: Deke, JT and Sheed.

I agree, ship them to lottery teams or up and coming teams.

[Jody23]

What does it matter where you trade them to? So long as the Hawks get the assets to improve the team, I could care less where they go.

[Plainview1981]

The excuse machine has been crunk up once again and a new Marvin excuse has popped out. So now it's not "he's too young." Now it's not " it's Woody's offense". Now it's not " Bibby doesn't pass to him". Now it's not "Crawford and joe dominate the ball too much". The New excuse is " Atlanta is like a lion kill and if you're not in there, you ain't eating.". Is that even an excuse? I mean an old broken down vetmin like Tmac can get in the game and have an impact. Even a short guy like Mean Willie Green can have more impact than Marvin. So now, this is the second coach to be blamed for not drawing plays up specifically for Marvin. What should we do.. Run Marvin off a Pick? Run some Pick and Roll with Marvin? Ok... the visual is bringing laughter and tears to my eyes. I see Marvin falling down hard.

There has been so much goal post moving in regards to Marvin that it's unbelievable.

[AHF]

What does it matter where you trade them to? So long as the Hawks get the assets to improve the team, I could care less where they go.

Agreed. We got Josh Smith for moving Rasheed Wallace. That was a smart trade for us. I wouldn't rescind that trade to try to prevent Detroit from challenging for a championship.

[PureGreatness]

Isn't Josh Smith in the last year of his contract? Why would a team that Smith most likely would not resign with trade for him? Do you guys not think?Don't worry about where you trade players just get equal or fair trade value for them.

[Joker]

Isn't Josh Smith in the last year of his contract? Why would a team that Smith most likely would not resign with trade for him? Do you guys not think?Don't worry about where you trade players just get equal or fair trade value for them.

I think Smith is dumb, the new CBA LT is coming next year. The team we trade him to will be the only suitors willing to give him half of what he thinks he's worth. Don't pay Josh any mind. He was the one that put himself in this type of position. His time in Atlanta is finished. It's time to retool. Keep Al and Joe. Sign a #1 option or a very good true PG and let's move on forward.