How good would the JJ, Smith, Marv, Horf group have been with Bud?

[HawkItus]

I know we made the right choice in blowing things up. And I am impressed with Bud so far because he doesn't wast any of our players when they are on the floor. Everybody has purpose. What could he have done with W.L.O.C. crew in their heyday? Call me crazy, but I think we could of at least made a conference final.

[macdaddy]

I don't because none of those guys move well without the ball and none of them are consistent shooters other than horford. I think if Bud was the coach we would have unloaded Marv and Josh sooner which might have been a good thing.

Edited December 18, 2013 by macdaddy

[Diesel]

I don't because none of those guys move well without the ball and none of them are consistent shooters other than horford. I think if Bud was the coach we would have unloaded Marv and Josh sooner which might have been a good thing.

That's not true. I think all of them were capable of moving without the ball.

I Think the problem at the time was simple, there was no discipline for Smoove. When you hire a coach and give him a short leash and he's one of the lowest paid coaches in the game, it's hard to expect that he will manage players the way they need managing. Smoove needed benching. Cheeks has done a wonderful job of coaching Smoove. Smoove understands one thing in Detroit... It's not his team. He can be benched at any time. Therefore, you see Smoove not settling for the dumb shot as much. When you got LD and Woody on these unstable contracts, winning is what they had to do and that means keeping Smoove on the floor.

Here's my question...

Would Coach bud had shipped Marvin to the d-League?

Would Coach Bud have demanded a PG?

[macdaddy]

I agree that LD was somewhat handcuffed by poor GM decisions. Woody i don't give as much excuse.

Marv, for having the 'perfect' jumper, never knocked them down consistently. Joe is streaky as hell and both he and josh were ball stoppers. You can say that Bud would have cured that but who knows. Bud has a team stacked with energy guys who can shoot and are team players.

[AHF]

The most fascinating question to me is what he would have done with Josh Smith. Without a big improvement in Josh's BBIQ (and thus his game), I don't think the Hawks are directionally much different under Bud than under Woody/LD - mediocre.

[coachx]

An equally interesting question is how would Josh Smith have related to Bud ?

You have to be willing to listen to be able to learn.

[azuresou1]

Josh is pretty much the antithesis of a Spurs/Bud type player. Doesn't give consistent effort, plays outside his limits, freezes the ball. JJ isn't very Spurs-like either, with his love of iso-ball. Marvin could be a good bench guy/sometimes starter I suppose.

All in all, I think Bud would have asked for several guys to get moved ASAP.

[High5]

Cheeks has done a wonderful job of coaching Smoove.

Josh is having the worst season of his career so far. Wonderful...

[coachx]

Josh Smith is doing just as I thought he would as a full time SF. His efficiency has tanked.

40% FG

26% 3pt FG while shooing 4.2 3pt per game. His previous high was 2.6 per game which was last season.

46% TS% which is the lowest of his career.

44% eFG% which is the lowest of his career.

Plus rebounds and blocks are down since he is away from the basket.

He is also giving up 104 points per 100 possessions..........which is his worst since his 1st 2 season in the NBA right out of HS.

[ATLSmith]

It would be interesting to see how JJ would fit into this system since we're so used to seeing him in an iso offense.

For one thing, JJ wouldn't have to create as many shots for himself, so he would spend less time dribbling the ball and getting into trouble when double-teamed. Buds offense certainly seems to get Korver open and he doesn't really create shots for himself. JJ is also worlds better around the basket (although not as good of a shooter).

[capstone21]

Josh Smith is doing just as I thought he would as a full time SF. His efficiency has tanked.

40% FG

26% 3pt FG while shooing 4.2 3pt per game. His previous high was 2.6 per game which was last season.

46% TS% which is the lowest of his career.

44% eFG% which is the lowest of his career.

Plus rebounds and blocks are down since he is away from the basket.

He is also giving up 104 points per 100 possessions..........which is his worst since his 1st 2 season in the NBA right out of HS.

They went away from his strengths in Detroit. He is a help defender and a decent post guy/passer. I never understood signing him when u already have two big guys already. Josh has always been an average or even below average perimeter defender and putting him at SF allows him to do what he shouldn't be doing....taking jumpers. Once Monroe is traded then Smith will settle in at PF. The last few games they have had him in the post and he has produced as a result.

[coachx]

Why would they trade Monroe ? He is the best player on their team and only 23.

[MaceCase]

Why would they trade Monroe ? He is the best player on their team and only 23.

Because he's due a new contract this very off-season and figures to have a pretty nice market. If the trio of Josh, Monroe and Drummond fails or doesn't live up to expectations can you really justify throwing another 8 figure salary into the mix? Josh looks to be untradeable at this point and everyone is enamored in Drummond's potential so that leaves Monroe as trade bait unless capped out and underachieving is Dumars favorite motto.

[coachx]

Monroe is a RFA.

The Pistons have no hear of losing him since they can match. He still 4.5 years away from his monster contract.

If the Pistons want to trade Monroe away that would be music to Danny Ferry's ears.

Edited December 18, 2013 by coachx

[hawkman]

Smoove is actually turning it around after getting benched. He's having to face reality over in Detroit and seems to be adapting to it after taking his lumps and it's making him a better player. Smoove was a blank slate when he came here his Rookie year and was willing to put the work in, but the reality is the Hawks didn't handle him well at all. Unfortunately, you can say the same thing about all of the Hawks young players. There's been virtually NO player development over the years.

[MaceCase]

Monroe is a RFA. The Pistons have no hear of losing him since they can match. He still 4.5 years away from his monster contract. If the Pistons want to trade Monroe away that would be music to Danny Ferry's ears.

So it's your belief that Monroe will make less than 10 million a year even as a RFA? Wow, well okay then.

[Guest]

Smoove is actually turning it around after getting benched. He's having to face reality over in Detroit and seems to be adapting to it after taking his lumps and it's making him a better player. Smoove was a blank slate when he came here his Rookie year and was willing to put the work in, but the reality is the Hawks didn't handle him well at all. Unfortunately, you can say the same thing about all of the Hawks young players. There's been virtually NO player development over the years.

He's had two monster games playing in the post - mmmm I've seen that dog and pony show before.Let's see if he can keep that up until at least mid season.

[MaceCase]

So it's your belief that Monroe will make less than 10 million a year even as a RFA? Wow, well okay then.

As a reminder, these are the deals that other bigs in Monroe's own draft class got.

Derrick Favors: 4 years 48 million

Demarcus Cousins: 5 years 60 million*

Larry Sanders: 4 years 44 million

To speak nothing of other recent RFA bigmen such as

Roy Hibbert: 4 years 58 million

Deandre Jordan: 4 years 43 million

JaVale McGee: 4 years 44 million

I don't know what the definition of a "monster" deal is but its safe to say that Monroe will likely command at the minimum the 44 million that his peers have secured. Whether Detroit finds it palatable to invest over 30 million a year in a frontcourt that has underachieved thus far remains to be seen.

Edited December 18, 2013 by MaceCase

[Peoriabird]

Marvin would have been perfect for this system!

[Flight]

This system would have worked perfect for everyone but Smoove. Marvin could definitely have played a lot better under Bud and we may have been able to do a much better job developing talent when players know their roles on offense.