How good would the JJ, Smith, Marv, Horf group have been with Bud?

[MaceCase]

I think Josh would have thrived in much the same way that Diaw is now for the Spurs. Heck they would have found a use for Acie and Jeffrey would have made it on the court early on as it isn't a requirement of Spurs PGs to be able to hit the open 3 while they watch JJ ISO for 18 seconds but rather attack. The Spurs even wanted to sign Chills once a blue moon ago.

[Diesel]

This system would have worked perfect for everyone but Smoove. Marvin could definitely have played a lot better under Bud and we may have been able to do a much better job developing talent when players know their roles on offense.

Quit with the lies about Marvin. OK, Lies is the wrong word.. but Marvin would have done no better. Marvin is in the Utah System... under Corbin. That system thrives on PNR ball to a much higher degree than we do it. Yet Marvin has not broke out yet. Let's understand the truth... Marvin lacked aggressiveness as a scorer and he bitched about being benched (also). He would not have thrived under Bud.. Bud would have rightly sent him to the d-League.

[Duff_Man]

That's not true. I think all of them were capable of moving without the ball.

I Think the problem at the time was simple, there was no discipline for Smoove. When you hire a coach and give him a short leash and he's one of the lowest paid coaches in the game, it's hard to expect that he will manage players the way they need managing. Smoove needed benching. Cheeks has done a wonderful job of coaching Smoove. Smoove understands one thing in Detroit... It's not his team. He can be benched at any time. Therefore, you see Smoove not settling for the dumb shot as much. When you got LD and Woody on these unstable contracts, winning is what they had to do and that means keeping Smoove on the floor.

Here's my question...

Would Coach bud had shipped Marvin to the d-League?

Would Coach Bud have demanded a PG?

Not settling for dumb shots? This is ignorance on a level I can't even fathom.

[Duff_Man]

Quit with the lies about Marvin. OK, Lies is the wrong word.. but Marvin would have done no better. Marvin is in the Utah System... under Corbin. That system thrives on PNR ball to a much higher degree than we do it. Yet Marvin has not broke out yet. Let's understand the truth... Marvin lacked aggressiveness as a scorer and he bitched about being benched (also). He would not have thrived under Bud.. Bud would have rightly sent him to the d-League.

Well then he sure as hell wasn't putting up with "mid range shawty".

[macdaddy]

I think most telling is that the first thing Ferry did was ship Joe and Marvin. Now Joe was obviously for contract but if Ferry thought Marv would 'thrive' under a spurs system he would have kept him. Then with Bud actually coming on board as coach their next move is to not even offer Josh a contract. So I think Bud and Ferry are on record with how well they think Josh, Joe, and Marv would have done in their system.

[HawkItus]

I think most telling is that the first thing Ferry did was ship Joe and Marvin. Now Joe was obviously for contract but if Ferry thought Marv would 'thrive' under a spurs system he would have kept him. Then with Bud actually coming on board as coach their next move is to not even offer Josh a contract. So I think Bud and Ferry are on record with how well they think Josh, Joe, and Marv would have done in their system.

Well, first off, I'm talking prime JJ and Marv. Also, those were money moves further more. If JJ was on a good deal he might have stayed. If Marv was on a good deal for his production they he might have stayed. Both guys were also going down physically. It has less to do with talent and more to do with pragmatism.

[yungsta]

Dunno how I missed this topic few days ago

Personally I dont think that team would of done much better. That core was severed flawed and reached its absolute ceiling and was never going to get to the next level under any head coach. We had a .500+ record but I dont think people remember how dysfunctional and mentally f'ed up that core was which explains why people are enjoying this team much better than previous hawk teams despite having near identical records.

The reason why this current team looks so good with less talent is because we have guys who fit into a system and were hand picked. That core was just a clusterfuck of parts thrown together by Billy King and ASG and wouldn't have fit in any kind of structured system.

[Peoriabird]

Dunno how I missed this topic few days ago

Personally I dont think that team would of done much better. That core was severed flawed and reached its absolute ceiling and was never going to get to the next level under any head coach. We had a .500+ record but I dont think people remember how dysfunctional and mentally f'ed up that core was which explains why people are enjoying this team much better than previous hawk teams despite having near identical records.

The reason why this current team looks so good with less talent is because we have guys who fit into a system and were hand picked. That core was just a clusterfuck of parts thrown together by Billy King and ASG and wouldn't have fit in any kind of structured system.

You are over analyzing things! The coaching sucked for those teams plain and simple. And there are numerous example to support such claim starting with the development of Jeff Teague and Al Horford this year.

[DrReality]

No one or no thing could change Smoove.

[benhillboy]

I'm pretty sure that Bud, if involved in player personnel at all, would decline signing Joe to 70 mil, let alone 120 with one of the worst drive and free throw attempt games you can find for a wing player. The current system is based on scoring easily: Joe does everything but that. I dont know the SportVu nimbers, but im pretty sure Kyle, Lou, and Jeff run more than Joe can/ would. Marvin would've never been picked that high, but I think he could've been solid under Bud. Josh is a moron, he's useless to a team concept.

Edited December 23, 2013 by benhillboy

[Peoriabird]

The current system is based on scoring easily: Joe does everything but that. I dont know the SportVu nimbers, but im pretty sure Kyle, Lou, and Jeff run more than Joe can/ would.

So you're saying that there is no room for the "Tricky Dribble" in Bud's system?