Spinoff thread on replacing Al Horford

[Lurker]

If you resign Al Horford, do you become content with being a lite version with Memphis East?

If not, then give me very specific version of how to improve the team with at least three big contracts on the team. And no, it's not just get a big SF.

Also:

Do you really think this team can win a championship with Horford and Millsap starting at PF/C?

 

[Admin]

No we aren't going to win a championship with Sap and Horford as the main 2 guys unless we have 3 other very solid starters who don't choke in the playoffs plus a deep bench. I'm not in favor of maxing Al out but I'm also not sure that anyone will give him that much.

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[Jody23]

If Sap and Horford are the 4/5 combination and are the teams "best players", then absolutely not.  That will keep you in the middle.

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, Jody23 said:

If Sap and Horford are the 4/5 combination and are the teams "best players", then absolutely not.  That will keep you in the middle.

60 wins and ecf is the middle. Possibly ecf again is the middle. The best team we have ever had in Atlanta is the middle. The best player since Nique is the middle. This fanbase must think we are the Lakers  

[cam1218]

So many Horford threads at the top of the forum with pretty much the same conversation.  

[NBASupes]

6 minutes ago, cam1218 said:

So many Horford threads at the top of the forum with pretty much the same conversation.  

You got three types

 

Me who thinks he's special and deserves the pay. I think he is the best thing to ever happen to this franchise since Nique. His record proves that's a true statement. 

 

The Jay's who don't like the fact that he's not busing his ass on the boards and want to see more offense to justify their beliefs that he's a max level player. Defensively,  they like him a ton.

 

The lurker's who just don't like this team period and wants to rebuild and try to get a top 3 pick. So resigning Al goes v. That thinking. 

[Lurker]

12 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

60 wins and ecf is the middle. Possibly ecf again is the middle. The best team we have ever had in Atlanta is the middle. The best player since Nique is the middle. This fanbase must think we are the Lakers

Last season was a fluke, even with a hypothetically healthy Carroll, that MAYBEE eeks out 2-3 more wins.

That's why I keep saying that just any big SF acquired is going to change nothing.

At best, last season is a 50-54 win team, and we saw that in the second half.

[NBASupes]

Just now, Lurker said:

Last season was a fluke, even with a hypothetically healthy Carroll, that MAYBEE eeks out 2-3 more wins.

That's why I keep saying that just any big SF acquired is going to change nothing.

How was it a fluke. We could have won more games. In fact, our numbers this year say we are underachieving and we are in 3rd place. I am trying to find the fluke in us.

[Lurker]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

How was it a fluke. We could have won more games. In fact, our numbers this year say we are underachieving and we are in 3rd place. I am trying to find the fluke in us.

It was a fluke in that teams were not prepared for the offense with a healthy Horford. They are now and know what they need to do even with your golden boy. Having Carroll changes almost nothing about this season.

[NBASupes]

5 minutes ago, Lurker said:

It was a fluke in that teams were not prepared for the offense with a healthy Horford. They are now and know what they need to do even with your golden boy. Having Carroll changes almost nothing about this season.

Huh?

[Lurker]

4 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Huh?

People are saying teams have fully adjusted to Atlanta's offense and have completely shut it down since the second half of last season...

 

Even with Demarre Carroll here.

 

Even with Al Horford healthy.

 

And the adjustment was really simple, just go under on the Hawks PGs on screens and it destroys the offense. There's evidence to it too, with the 99.7 ORTG in January and last season...

Up to January:

110.8 ORTG

February (to be specific):

105.8 ORTG

A nearly 5 point drop. There was strong signs in February and the playoffs that the team had been figured out.

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, Lurker said:

People are saying teams have fully adjusted to Atlanta's offense and have completely shut it down since the second half of last season...

 

Even with Demarre Carroll here.

 

Even with Al Horford healthy.

 

And the adjustment was really simple, just go under on the Hawks PGs on screens and it destroys the offense. There's evidence to it too, with the 99.7 ORTG in January and last season...

Up to January:

110.8 ORTG

February (to be specific):

105.8 ORTG

A nearly 5 point drop. There was strong signs in February and the playoffs that the team had been figured out.

Our offense is down because of our lack of offense from the perimeter outside of the PG's.  Our defense is top five and #1 since Jan 1st

[Lurker]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Our offense is down because of our lack of offense from the perimeter outside of the PG's.  Our defense is top five and #1 since Jan 1st

And Demarre Carroll is not solving that with his grand total of 12 PPG, nor is he solving the problem of the team choking up in crunch time. They lost their way in close games with Carroll here.

[Jody23]

44 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

60 wins and ecf is the middle. Possibly ecf again is the middle. The best team we have ever had in Atlanta is the middle. The best player since Nique is the middle. This fanbase must think we are the Lakers  

That was last year.  What's happening this year and beyond? I want to see you say a team with Horford and Millsap as the best players can win a championship.   And who exactly is the best player since Nique?  Last I checked, Deke is retired and Joe Johnson doesn't play here anymore.

[Diesel]

I don't buy into this "other teams learned to stop us Bull.".  The Spurs have played this way for 15 years and nobody has stopped them.  I think the issue really is that we are still in the buying in phase.  Let's point out the three or four truths:

1.  We have a lack of overall talent.

The offense doesn't make up for lack of talent.

2.  Thabo going out last year had a big effect on the rest of our season.

3.  Our players tend to fall into periods of doing bad  practices.  -Can you really say that you have watched us play full budball all game long and get shut down?  When we're playing Budball, we are winning most of the time.   I always say that basketball is about matchups.  There are some teams that our lack of talent won't make up for.   However, we're better than 80%  of the league. '

4.  Our bench depth last year in the playoffs was not as good as we will be this year.  We are a sleeper.

 

[ATLHawks3]

I hope to God that Al has a dominant postseason. We need him, Teague, and Korver to start playing more consistent in order to challenge Cleveland.

[BigDog90]

5 hours ago, Lurker said:

If you resign Al Horford, do you become content with being a lite version with Memphis East?

If not, then give me very specific version of how to improve the team with at least three big contracts on the team. And no, it's not just get a big SF.

Also:

Do you really think this team can win a championship with Horford and Millsap starting at PF/C?

 

Take on Iggy's contract

LeBron has problems with big SFs. Big SFs costed LeBron Finals wins - Marion (DAL), Kawhi (SA) and Iggy (GS). You can teach skill but you can't teach size. You either have it or you don't. Unfortunately, you can't keep relying on Millsap and Horford to be your big bodies to stand in front of LeBron when they got bigs to worry themselves. GS seems like they're not trying to pay the tax, seeing how they traded Lee then traded Wallace to save even more money. By taking on Iggy, ATL would finally have a big SF and GS avoids paying the tax and have enough money to resign Barnes and Rush. 

Start Hardaway

Korver isn't getting any younger. His decline reminds me of Ray Allen's in his last days in Boston. He could be 6th man and come off the bench during crunch time. Hardaway gives the Hawks a different look at the SG position, in addition to his shooting ability, he could drive in the paint and be more of a playmaker than Kyle who's play primarily came from long range.

Bench Teague, Start Dennis

Sometimes you have to put your ego aside to win it all as a team. ATL probably won't get a great package for Teague, he's no CP3/Westbrook but he's a good PG. PG is probably the easiest position to replace with so many good PGs coming out every year and on teams' benches.  I'd start Dennis, he should be the long term option at PG, higher ceiling. Meanwhile, Teague can help stabilize the 2nd unit - keeping the system running, dominate teams' backup PGs. 

Let Bazemore go

He's a nice energy player and all but the price tag he's going to get isn't going to worth the price to keep him especially when you have the opportunity to get a Finals MVP as your starting SF at a cheaper price.

Draft a SF

Thabo isn't getting any younger. They need a SF waiting in the wings that could be a starter in the future. 

Give Edy more minutes

You can't teach size. Give him minutes during blowouts and have him play when Splitter can't instead of relying on Muscula. Let Muscula strictly be a PF. Edy can replace Splitter in 2017.

Starters

Dennis/Hardaway/Iggy/Millsap/Horford

Bench

Teague/Korver/Thabo/Muscula/Splitter/Edy

 

 

[Mdizzle5]

2 hours ago, Diesel said:

I don't buy into this "other teams learned to stop us Bull.".  The Spurs have played this way for 15 years and nobody has stopped them.  I think the issue really is that we are still in the buying in phase.  Let's point out the three or four truths:

1.  We have a lack of overall talent.

The offense doesn't make up for lack of talent.

2.  Thabo going out last year had a big effect on the rest of our season.

3.  Our players tend to fall into periods of doing bad  practices.  -Can you really say that you have watched us play full budball all game long and get shut down?  When we're playing Budball, we are winning most of the time.   I always say that basketball is about matchups.  There are some teams that our lack of talent won't make up for.   However, we're better than 80%  of the league. '

4.  Our bench depth last year in the playoffs was not as good as we will be this year.  We are a sleeper.

 

They've definitely been stopped. If they hadn't they'd have won the title 15 times. Lol. 

Also, if Pop sees that something isn't working he will change it if needed for the game or year and so on. Not to mention when the game plan breaks down they still have players to count on. Which does go into the talent point as you've mentioned.

Lastly, we don't really play the way the Spurs do. Pop HATES the 3 and looks at it as something of a last resort. Bud seems to look at it as the first, second and third option.  Sure, you can say the offense is rooted in ball movement, same as the Spurs. But also the Warriors, who our style is more comparable to. Except well... you know. 

PS. better than 80% of the league? I think that's a bit high. I'm not saying we're 80% worse or close to that but 80% better? 

Edited February 5, 2016 by Mdizzle5

[hazer]

Hawks need a star (not necessarily "super") big SF stout rebounder if they want to make it to the finals. Start Blaze at 2 (and THJr continuing his progress) so Korver can 6th man it. Those 2 moves alone would make a huge difference.

[TheFuzz]

Specifically, if we resign Al (which I flipflop on whether it's a good idea), I think one of Teague and Schröder has to go for that big talent upgrade on the wing. The deal might not be there, but that's one way to upgrade our starting lineup.