Jeff Teague =Better than Kyle Lowry

[Diesel]

6 hours ago, Lurker said:

It's not just those 9 games, it's how when Teague is off he does not help the team in any other way. And he had an even bigger stretch than this during the '16 season in which his play was an absolute joke. You cannot call him a star.

Bruh, you minimized it further than those 9 games.

I don't remember calling him a star.   That's your strawman.

 

7 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Nope, that's  on you buddy.

I love the avoidance there.   Speaks volumes as to what you can do.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

I don't remember calling him a star.   That's your strawman.

 

I love the avoidance there.   Speaks volumes as to what you can do.

You asked about clutch, I answered - don't move the goal post now asking about heroball, just because you didn't like the answer or because it speaks volume as to what YOU can do, but that's  your thing, so have at it. Done with this thread.

 

[macdaddy]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

You asked about clutch, I answered - don't move the goal post now asking about heroball, just because you didn't like the answer or because it speaks volume as to what YOU can do, but that's  your thing, so have at it. Done with this thread.

 

And then he complains about no stats in the argument and when someone brings up stats he compares them to Curry.     And when you ask a direct question there is no answer.  

[Diesel]

4 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

You asked about clutch, I answered - don't move the goal post now asking about heroball, just because you didn't like the answer or because it speaks volume as to what YOU can do, but that's  your thing, so have at it. Done with this thread.

 

The problem is that your definition of clutch IS Heroball. 

It speaks volumes that you avoid that conversation.   Heroball....  Let's stop with the semantics.  You guys cry for somebody to do a Joe Johnson Heroball imitation at the end of games...  However, that's not how we're built.  Moreover, if you want that Joe Johnson Heroballer, realize that he will dominate the ball more than just in the last 2 minutes.

 

[AHF]

I just want someone who will make shots at the end of the game.  Hero ball is generally a good way not  to do that as Kobe's iso numbers at the end of games demonstrate.  If the defense intensifies another notch at the end of games and we don't have people who can pass, dribble and shoot their way into a score that is a problem.  Part of that is being aggressive.  As the discussion relates to Teague, Teague is better being aggressive on offense whether it is the first quarter, second quarter, third quarter, fourth quarter or crunch time.  The challenge is trying to get him to be consistently aggressive.

[Lurker]

21 minutes ago, Diesel said:

However, that's not how we're built.

Then once again, and I won't even add on anything more to it: Explain exactly why in late game situations even the veterans on this team go away from the "unselfish passing system" and go one on one?

If you don't have an answer to this, end this discussion now and stay in your fairy tale land that a team led by Jeff Teague can be a legitimate contender.

[Dnice]

Yeah,  what an ass whooping.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 26, 2016 by Dnice

[willthepureshooter]

Here's the stats compiled for our Hawks in the 4th quarter or overtime, 1:00 or less left in quarter, sorted by descending Field Goals.

[AHF]

Looks like Bazemore / Muscala / Hardaway is the plan for next year.  I feel good about that.

[Lurker]

28 minutes ago, willthepureshooter said:

Here's the stats compiled for our Hawks in the 4th quarter or overtime, 1:00 or less left in quarter, sorted by descending Field Goals.

In the 4th quarter when the lead is three points or less, Teague's FG% is 40.6%.

So again, another Teague fan like you is debunked. 40.6% might be the best on the team, but its ehhhhh. Shows the whole team, including Teague, totally sucks when they need to close it out.

Edited May 26, 2016 by Lurker

[Thomas]

2 hours ago, Dnice said:

Yeah,  what an ass whooping.

 

 

 

 

I know this not part of the Teague and Lowry comparison but that expression right there is a Caddyshack moment. To fun to pass up. Turd in the pool or just a Baby Ruth. 

[Dnice]

Yeah the expression was in the trending section on Facebook.

[Thomas]

11 minutes ago, Dnice said:

Yeah the expression was in the trending section on Facebook.

Looking at your Milwaukee Hawks banner and found out Petit was rookie of the year for them before they moved to St. Louis. So I'm guessing you are a Hawks historian or a bit older than me. The second half of their first season in St. Louis was the year I was born (1956). Will follow our Hawks till the day I kick with the expectation of a title at some point.    

[Diesel]

3 hours ago, AHF said:

I just want someone who will make shots at the end of the game.  Hero ball is generally a good way not  to do that as Kobe's iso numbers at the end of games demonstrate.  If the defense intensifies another notch at the end of games and we don't have people who can pass, dribble and shoot their way into a score that is a problem.  Part of that is being aggressive.  As the discussion relates to Teague, Teague is better being aggressive on offense whether it is the first quarter, second quarter, third quarter, fourth quarter or crunch time.  The challenge is trying to get him to be consistently aggressive.

Getting good shots at the end of games can also be done by well designed plays.  Haven't you watched the Spurs?

 

[Diesel]

3 hours ago, Lurker said:

Then once again, and I won't even add on anything more to it: Explain exactly why in late game situations even the veterans on this team go away from the "unselfish passing system" and go one on one?

If you don't have an answer to this, end this discussion now and stay in your fairy tale land that a team led by Jeff Teague can be a legitimate contender.

Any intervention by anybody can be distressed.  Moroever, it's NOT EVERYTIME that our vets go to selfish play.  You make it seem as though it's what Bud wants?  Do you think that?  Do you think that in the last 3 minutes of a game Bud calls a huddle and says... OK guys... Just go out there and do what you want to do.   This is not Vince Cunningham and the freakin Eagles.   So two things you can do Lurker...

1.  Stop talking in Semantics.  If you mean Heroball don't say Clutch.

2.  Stop using Absolutes.   It is not everytime.  Hell, I don't think it's half the time.

 

[Diesel]

Ah.. Hawksquawk.. >Don't you dare be sour... CLAP for 2016 Caption This Power!!

 

Kyle:  You are Not the Father!!

Kevin:  You are not the father either!!

Who's my Daddy!!

 

 

[Lurker]

59 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Any intervention by anybody can be distressed.  Moroever, it's NOT EVERYTIME that our vets go to selfish play.  You make it seem as though it's what Bud wants?  Do you think that?  Do you think that in the last 3 minutes of a game Bud calls a huddle and says... OK guys... Just go out there and do what you want to do.   This is not Vince Cunningham and the freakin Eagles.   So two things you can do Lurker...

1.  Stop talking in Semantics.  If you mean Heroball don't say Clutch.

2.  Stop using Absolutes.   It is not everytime.  Hell, I don't think it's half the time.

 

You STILL did not answer the question given. Tell me why most of the time, the veterans on this team ignore Bud's "unselfish system" in winning time. If you don't have an answer, GO AWAY. End this discussion.

[Dnice]

@Thomas nah, just a random signature, I can only go back to the early to mid 80's.

[Thomas]

A most excellent signature Dnice. Respect to all forms of Hawks's linage being a fan of this year or the fifties and anything in-between. 

[Lurker]

Here are the times I watched in which the Hawks lost the game in clutch time last season and they specifically did not "ping the ball around", with Teague in during it and not Schröder (not all of them are on Teague):

1. 11-9-15 vs Minnesota: I didn't actually watch this second half, but the while the Hawks shouldn't have been in it near the end, the word was after they took the lead, they went back to one on one ball, with Teague as the leader of it and the team ultimately lost by 10.

2. 12-2-15 vs Toronto: This one is glaring because it has the near 20 point lead blown. For the first 2 and 1/4ths quarters, the team was being unselfish and passed the ball around, and then they went away from it, even when Teague was still in. The offense was at most one pass and a shot for the last 1 and 3/4ths quarters of the game and Teague was not good in trying to close the game.

3. 12-28-15 vs Indiana: The team used ball movement to give themselves a chance late, but went away from it late with the main culprit being? Jeff Teague. Teague was going to try to go ISO and drive with the deficit at 3, and he turned it over and Indiana sealed the game at the other end.

4. 1-15-16 vs Milwaukee: The ball was put in Jeff Teague's hands with a chance to win or go to overtime, and he barely even got a shot off. He was planning on taking a horrible shot too, with his poor percentages on jumpers where he has to dribble, taking a step back jumper was not a good choice here. He never looked to pass the ball in this possession, then ran the offense horribly in OT.

5. 1-27-16 vs LAC: After Chris Paul helped the Clippers go ahead with a drive and dish to Deandre for a dunk, the ball was put in Millsap's hands at the start of the possession twice (after Teague managed to save the game) and he never looked to pass the ball. Blew two layups.

6. 2-7-16 vs ORL: Granted the Hawks were lucky to be in it this late actually. But once again, the ball was put in Jeff Teague's hands in a late game possession and he never looked to pass during it and went too early taking another awful step back jumper.

7. 2-8-16 vs ORL: Granted the Hawks should have put this one away before it got to it. But the ball was put in Millsap's hands and he went too late in a winning time situation, and once again, was creating his own offense in this possession.

8. 2-20-16 vs GSW: After the Hawks managed to tie up what was a blowout, Teague came in and immediately proceeded to play poor defense on Klay Thompson to help Golden State go back in front quickly by three possessions and essentially end the game with how anemic this offense is.

9. 3-21-16 vs WAS: This ended up being a blowout, but while the game was still in doubt, the reason it got to one is because the offense was not run at all by either PG and Teague just melted down in the 4th quarter totally.

10. 4-1-16 vs CLE: While Teague had a good game overall, when Atlanta had a chance to win the game at the end and the ball was again put in his hands, he screwed up by thinking that CLE was going to take the foul to give and turned the ball over. He never looked like he was going to pass in that possession.

11. 4-13-16 vs WAS: Teague comes back in the game with the deficit at 5 and the offense devolves to ISO and three point shooting. Washington with an immediate 13-2 run during this to ice the game.

So 11 out of 34 isn't a bad percentage, but let's take out the blowout losses and times in which Schröder closed the game:

11 out of 17.

That's an AWFUL percentage, and yet people are saying Jeff Teague is always running the offense well and giving the Hawks a chance to win in winning time.