KK to the Cavaliers

[Peoriabird]

8 minutes ago, AHF said:

I think we could get comparable value (late first / early second) for him for a pick that will be available this offseason  (so the player is available next year rather than in 3 years) and wouldn't have to strengthen our biggest rival in the ECF to do it.

The only reason I see to do this now is to open minutes for our rookies.

1st of all do you really see Lebron's Cleveland teams and the Hawks as a rivalry?  And secondly, no one else offered a 1st round pick for Korver.  Who was this mystery team offering next year's 1st for Korver?

[Sothron]

1 minute ago, Watchman said:

So we are in tank mode then.

We don't know that yet. As I've said numerous times we have been a better team without Korver than with him this season. If all we do is trade Korver then we got a first rounder out of it and give more playing time to the young guys.

If we trade Millsap for future picks/young guys then yes I would say we are retooling. Tank mode to me would mean trading Dwight and only keeping Dennis and the rookies.

[Watchman]

1 minute ago, Sothron said:

We don't know that yet. As I've said numerous times we have been a better team without Korver than with him this season. If all we do is trade Korver then we got a first rounder out of it and give more playing time to the young guys.

If we trade Millsap for future picks/young guys then yes I would say we are retooling. Tank mode to me would mean trading Dwight and only keeping Dennis and the rookies.

More playing time for the young players equals tank mode.  Bembry was atrocious last night, at least in the first half.  I have a nasty cold, so I went lights out at halftime.  Maybe he played better in the second half.

[Sothron]

2 minutes ago, kg01 said:

OMFG listening to NBARadio today is ear-bleedingly annoying with all these eggsperts pretending like they know anything at all about the Hawks as they discuss this trade.

Legler basically says we should've kept the team together although we're clearly not in CLE's class and that our core won't be in their class for the next 4-5 years.  Huh?  Are we just cannon fodder?  I guess we're just supposed to stay in our place and not even try to get better, huh?

Yeah, this is the thing no one on here is talking about. The reality of the situation is that Lebron owns the East until age/injury take the crown from him. None of these superstars are coming to the East to try and beat him. The Hawks have no chance of beating Cleveland in the playoffs so whatever BudCox decides to do has to be looking at a window 2-3 years from now when Lebron won't be the king anymore.

[Trout7]

2 minutes ago, kg01 said:

OMFG listening to NBARadio today is ear-bleedingly annoying with all these eggsperts pretending like they know anything at all about the Hawks as they discuss this trade.

Legler basically says we should've kept the team together although we're clearly not in CLE's class and that our core won't be in their class for the next 4-5 years.  Huh?  Are we just cannon fodder?  I guess we're just supposed to stay in our place and not even try to get better, huh?

It looked like we're starting to show signs we might could compete with top teams. Hawks management will always screw up anything, been doing it since Dominique trade.

[Sothron]

Just now, Watchman said:

More playing time for the young players equals tank mode.  Bembry was atrocious last night, at least in the first half.  I have a nasty cold, so I went lights out at halftime.  Maybe he played better in the second half.

The other wing players were already playing better than Korver. I don't know how much simpler I can put this without trying to sound like I'm insulting you. If all we do is trade Korver it still would make the team better THIS season and we got a first rounder in 2019 as a bonus.

[Sothron]

1 minute ago, Trout7 said:

It looked like we're starting to show signs we might could compete with top teams. Hawks management will always screw up anything, been doing it since Dominique trade.

And what if BudCox knows Millsap wasn't going to stay? They already drafted Korver and Thabo replacements. We already have Bazemore and THJR. You can't keep everyone. If Millsap is going to leave like Horford did then both Bud and Wilcox should be fired for not trading him.

I agree that we looked like a better team this year but you can't just look at one season. We wouldn't beat Cleveland anyways in the playoffs so the team might be taking a longer view.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Sothron said:

Yeah, this is the thing no one on here is talking about. The reality of the situation is that Lebron owns the East until age/injury take the crown from him. None of these superstars are coming to the East to try and beat him. The Hawks have no chance of beating Cleveland in the playoffs so whatever BudCox decides to do has to be looking at a window 2-3 years from now when Lebron won't be the king anymore.

That's just reality.  Teams need to be positioning themselves to be competitive now (to establish winning culture, etc.) but be able to pounce once the Cavs get old/injured which will take place a couple years from now.

Could we win a series vs them as currently constituted?  Slim chance.  Is it worth re-upping Sap, Kyle, et al.?  No.

3 minutes ago, Trout7 said:

It looked like we're starting to show signs we might could compete with top teams. Hawks management will always screw up anything, been doing it since Dominique trade.

Fool's gold IMHO.  Our ceiling was always ECF.  That doesn't change with/without Kyle.  It's why I'm not panicking with this trade like these NBARadio dudes (and some here) are doing.

Even if we trade Sap, that ceiling may/may not change.  It depends on what we get back.

[Guest]

Also, as @Sothron says, if they already know Sap is opting out the moov is to trade him now before the rest of the league catches on.  If he's already checked out, any "success" we have is moot.

[Thomas]

39 minutes ago, Spud2Nique said:

YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME-Herm Edwards

Should have taken his own advice.

[Thomas]

35 minutes ago, Watchman said:

 I really don't understand the decision to do this after we have now started to turn the corner, and beat good teams like San Antonio again.

Wonder if Tim's breakout game added some fuel to Bud's thought with all this.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Thomas said:

Should have taken his own advice.

HEY HEY HEY!!!! I WILL NOT JUST SIT HERE AND LET YOU RIP INTO MR. HERM...HES A MENTOR, A HARD WORKER AND AN GREAT COACH....lol

 

Actuakky ur right if he did he'd still prolly be in coaching. Lol.

Just now, Thomas said:

Wonder if Tim's breakout game added some fuel to Bud's thought with all this.

Great call. I'm sure it make the decision a tiny bit easier.

[Watchman]

17 minutes ago, Sothron said:

And what if BudCox knows Millsap wasn't going to stay? They already drafted Korver and Thabo replacements. We already have Bazemore and THJR. You can't keep everyone. If Millsap is going to leave like Horford did then both Bud and Wilcox should be fired for not trading him.

I agree that we looked like a better team this year but you can't just look at one season. We wouldn't beat Cleveland anyways in the playoffs so the team might be taking a longer view.

We have someone who has the size and ability to help shut down LeBron, and get more than 4 rebounds a game.  We already beat Cleveland this year, which we don't have much experience with in the last few years.

[Thomas]

18 minutes ago, Sothron said:

We wouldn't beat Cleveland anyways in the playoffs so the team might be taking a longer view.

Thought that is why Dwight is here to neutralize the paint which was a hugh factor in knocking us out in the playoffs. Feel like we have a shot at least with the existing lineup right now against the Cavs in that environment. Chance for Bembry and Prince to show at this point as well.

[Watchman]

3 minutes ago, Thomas said:

Wonder if Tim's breakout game added some fuel to Bud's thought with all this.

One game does not a season make.  I hope that he has turned the corner, but we'll see.

 

[Thomas]

2 minutes ago, Watchman said:

One game does not a season make.  I hope that he has turned the corner, but we'll see.

 

Yeah, consistency has not been his thing but doing what he did against the third best defense in the league kinda makes me drool a little.

[AHF]

56 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

1st of all do you really see Lebron's Cleveland teams and the Hawks as a rivalry?  And secondly, no one else offered a 1st round pick for Korver.  Who was this mystery team offering next year's 1st for Korver?

I feel like I am talking to a wall.  NO TEAM IS IN A POSITION TO GIVE THEIR BEST OFFER EXCEPT CLEVELAND.

This is like saying "this is the best deal on a computer on November 20th so I'm not waiting for Black Friday or Cyber Monday, I'm pulling the trigger now!"

I'll grant you it isn't as predictable as those sales opportunities but the best time to trade with every team other than Cleveland has not not yet arrived.  Some of those teams will fall out and not have any interest but the others will have increased interest as their team objectives and needs come into clearer focus.  Now is not the time to extract a premium from any team but Cleveland.

[Thomas]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

1st of all do you really see Lebron's Cleveland teams and the Hawks as a rivalry?

Pretty sure the Hawks do even with that 0-8 playoff record against them. Bringing in Dwight was to specifically get by the Cavs in the post season after getting roughed up in six out of eight games on the boards in the postseason.

[AHF]

59 minutes ago, Sothron said:

We don't know that yet. As I've said numerous times we have been a better team without Korver than with him this season. If all we do is trade Korver then we got a first rounder out of it and give more playing time to the young guys.

If we trade Millsap for future picks/young guys then yes I would say we are retooling. Tank mode to me would mean trading Dwight and only keeping Dennis and the rookies.

Agree 100%.  We don't know what this means until the next domino falls.

49 minutes ago, kg01 said:

That's just reality.  Teams need to be positioning themselves to be competitive now (to establish winning culture, etc.) but be able to pounce once the Cavs get old/injured which will take place a couple years from now.

Could we win a series vs them as currently constituted?  Slim chance.  Is it worth re-upping Sap, Kyle, et al.?  No.

Fool's gold IMHO.  Our ceiling was always ECF.  That doesn't change with/without Kyle.  It's why I'm not panicking with this trade like these NBARadio dudes (and some here) are doing.

Even if we trade Sap, that ceiling may/may not change.  It depends on what we get back.

Here is my issue with this.  What changed since the beginning of the year to this point for this.  We knew before the season started that Sap and Korver were free agents.  We knew that our chances of beating Cleveland were slim.  So if we are just now deciding to deal our assets and tank then I will crap all over management for not making this decision in the offseason when we could have dealt our assets and tanked for a premium lottery pick.  As per above, I don't think dealing Korver necessarily means we are looking to rebuild, though.  We might be still looking to compete.

55 minutes ago, Sothron said:

The other wing players were already playing better than Korver. I don't know how much simpler I can put this without trying to sound like I'm insulting you. If all we do is trade Korver it still would make the team better THIS season and we got a first rounder in 2019 as a bonus.

With Thabo and THJr starting, Korver was our best bench wing.  I'm hoping more minutes will turn Prince into that or that Bazemore will get his stuff together but bench Korver has been seriously better than Baze, Prince, and Bembry.

For some of those numbers on the season (and bench Korver has been notably better than starter Korver), our wings are:

PER - #1 Thabo, #2 THJr, #3 Korver - all other wings are single digit PERs much worse than Thabo, Jr and KK;

WS/48 - #1 Thabo, #2 Korver, #3 THJr - all others wings combined are less than Korver's WS/48.

[hazer]

1 hour ago, Trout7 said:

I guess Korver leaving will cause Muscala and Bazemore to appoint themselves 3 point assassin's.  Lord help us.

You realize Moose is shooting 45% from deep this year and 40% career, right?