KK to the Cavaliers

[HopefulHawksFan]

On 1/5/2017 at 8:12 AM, HopefulHawksFan said:

Did anybody notice Kyle playing limited minutes last night?  Only 16.  Could this be Bud testing out the rotations with not as much KK as they look to the trade deadline???  

I called this one yesterday...

Can't believe it's really happening.  So much for the throwback blue and green Korver jersey I ordered that hasn't come in yet...

[Thomas]

1 minute ago, HopefulHawksFan said:

So much for the throwback blue and green Korver jersey I ordered that hasn't come in yet...

That one is going to be incredibly popular now.

[DS17Fanboy]

Dumb. Dumb. Dumb. Unless they want to blow it up, which is also dumb. f*** this.

[AHF]

8 hours ago, Spud2Nique said:

I think waiting for the trade deadline till the last second is overrated. Teams have been doing that forever and I think it's just hype. Teams don't always get a better deal by waiting until the last second. That's just silly.

They don't always get a better deal but if you've ever been in deal negotiations you know that you don't get anything close to a best offer until the other guy is under pressure to make the deal happen.  When he knows he has other options next week there is no reason to give that really good asset.  Cleveland is the only team that is under pressure and it is because JR got hurt.  So I view it as nearly a one team bidding process.  We don't know what other teams best offers look like - but I do think we got something much closer to resembling Cleveland's best offer (just without the pressure of much competition).  Korver isn't a guy who transforms a team so you need to be sure you are a contender before you give up real assets for a guy who is more situational than foundational.

5 hours ago, thecampster said:

This is why I think this deal was to acquire the extra 1st rounder and cap space. I am thinking that there are going to be sellers on the market come the deadline and the Hawks will be able to use their expirings (or Millsap's salary) plus the 2 1st rounders we are owed to completely remake the roster. This trade brought Atlanta a very marketable asset in that late 1st round pick. Late 1st rounders are barely more than a vet minimum salary. In Today's NBA, that salary savings can be huge. There will be more than one team asking for that asset in trade at the deadline. 

The problem is most late first rounders are barely better than guys you sign on a vet minimum contract and many of them completely wash out.

Our trade assets rank like this (assuming Sap is the only player being dangled):

Sap >>>>> Hawks 2016 1st Round Pick >>> Minnesota Pick > Cleveland Pick > Second Round Pick

If we do a trade that transforms us it will not be because of the Cleveland pick. It will either transform us by virtue of who we are shipping out or we will send Sap out to get that guy.

[macdaddy]

This sucks.   I don't care the logical reasons for it.   We're going to be watching Kyle in the finals.  Which is great for him but he has the potential to be a Cavs hero, Horford could be a Celtics hero.  These things are hard to stomach.  Plus a total rebuild that may be coming will really suck.   If we retooled and only gave it 2 months to gel them that's just mismanagement.  It's not like we're play .300.   We're leading the division.   Sending assets to your #1 competition just sucks.   

[Sothron]

5 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

This sucks.   I don't care the logical reasons for it.   We're going to be watching Kyle in the finals.  Which is great for him but he has the potential to be a Cavs hero, Horford could be a Celtics hero.  These things are hard to stomach.  Plus a total rebuild that may be coming will really suck.   If we retooled and only gave it 2 months to gel them that's just mismanagement.  It's not like we're play .300.   We're leading the division.   Sending assets to your #1 competition just sucks.   

I'm not sure we are rebuilding. Honestly trading Korver doesn't really make us worse than we are now. We play significantly better without him on the court than we do with him on the court.

[AHF]

7 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Sending assets to your #1 competition just sucks.   

This.  You need a big premium to do this and I don't think a late first rounder who will play 3 years from now qualifies.  Hoping it works out in the long run and we either flip this for something better or get that lucky Tony Parker type pick but while this doesn't signal a rebuild necessarily it sure signals you aren't trying to win the East because of who you traded with.

[Peoriabird]

10 minutes ago, AHF said:

   Our trade assets rank like this (assuming Sap is the only player being dangled):

Sap >>>>> Hawks 2016 1st Round Pick >>> Minnesota Pick > Cleveland Pick > Second Round Pick

 

Weren't Sap and Korver 2nd round picks? So why take a negative approach to this if it is possible to get players like Sap, Korver and Dramond Green in the 2nd round or Tony Parkers in the late 1st round

[Bonkers]

Another dumb move by your Atlanta Hawks lol

[AHF]

26 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Weren't Sap and Korver 2nd round picks? So why take a negative approach to this if it is possible to get players like Sap, Korver and Dramond Green in the 2nd round or Tony Parkers in the late 1st round

I'm scratching my head seeing people who historically resisted trying to get high lottery picks on the premise that they are inherently uncertain now posting about the virtues of the probability of landing an impact player in the late first or second round.

I view all picks as having the potential to get a star but you have to factor in the odds too.  An early lottery pick is like a hot tech stock - while it may bust the odds are great that it could bring a ton of value.  Mid-first round picks are like mature manufacturing stocks - could bust, a few will be stars, and most will be contributors.  Late firsts and early seconds are like lottery tickets - most are worth nothing but a few rare ones will be high value picks.

In the last few years, the guys who have gone in this range:

2016

Furkan Korkmaz
Pascal Siakam
Skal Labissiere
Dejounte Murray
Damian Jones
Deyonta Davis
Ivica Zubac
Cheick Diallo
Tyler Ulis
Rade Zagorac
Malcolm Brogdon

 

2015

Nikola Milutinov
Larry Nance Jr.
R.J. Hunter
Chris McCullough
Kevon Looney
Cedi Osman
Montrezl Harrell
Jordan Mickey
Anthony Brown
Willy Hernangomez
Rakeem Christmas
 

2014

P.J. Hairston
Bogdan Bogdanovic
C.J. Wilcox
Josh Huestis
Kyle Anderson
Damien Inglis
K.J. McDaniels
Joe Harris
Cleanthony Early
Jarnell Stokes
Johnny O'Bryant III
 

No one is giving you much for a pick 3 years from now that most likely will be the next RJ Hunter and we should hope for the next Paul Millsap but expect the next Priest Lauderdale.

 

[Alex]

31 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Weren't Sap and Korver 2nd round picks? So why take a negative approach to this if it is possible to get players like Sap, Korver and Dramond Green in the 2nd round or Tony Parkers in the late 1st round

Look at at all the bust lottery picks in history.  There is far more negatives than postitives in the draft.  NBA draft is such a pile of crap as it is.  

[Guest]

45 minutes ago, AHF said:

They don't always get a better deal but if you've ever been in deal negotiations you know that you don't get anything close to a best offer until the other guy is under pressure to make the deal happen.  When he knows he has other options next week there is no reason to give that really good asset.  Cleveland is the only team that is under pressure and it is because JR got hurt.  So I view it as nearly a one team bidding process.  We don't know what other teams best offers look like - but I do think we got something much closer to resembling Cleveland's best offer (just without the pressure of much competition).  Korver isn't a guy who transforms a team so you need to be sure you are a contender before you give up real assets for a guy who is more situational than foundational.

The problem is most late first rounders are barely better than guys you sign on a vet minimum contract and many of them completely wash out.

Our trade assets rank like this (assuming Sap is the only player being dangled):

Sap >>>>> Hawks 2016 1st Round Pick >>> Minnesota Pick > Cleveland Pick > Second Round Pick

If we do a trade that transforms us it will not be because of the Cleveland pick. It will either transform us by virtue of who we are shipping out or we will send Sap out to get that guy.

True. I don't want to trade Sap but ur right at this point I think we should just let teams battle each other in going after Sap till the deadline. Plus it gives other teams and players an extra month to 

1. Realize they suck and make trades.

2. Get injured 

3. Hate each other and demand a trade.

4. Get close in or out of contention and adjust roster accordingly.

46 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

This sucks.   I don't care the logical reasons for it.   We're going to be watching Kyle in the finals.  Which is great for him but he has the potential to be a Cavs hero, Horford could be a Celtics hero.  These things are hard to stomach.  Plus a total rebuild that may be coming will really suck.   If we retooled and only gave it 2 months to gel them that's just mismanagement.  It's not like we're play .300.   We're leading the division.   Sending assets to your #1 competition just sucks.   

Yes. I like this..(outta LIKES)...YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME-Herm Edwards

[Peoriabird]

7 minutes ago, AHF said:

I'm scratching my head seeing people who historically resisted trying to get high lottery picks on the premise that they are inherently uncertain now posting about the virtues of the probability of landing an impact player in the late first or second round.

I view all picks as having the potential to get a star but you have to factor in the odds too.  An early lottery pick is like a hot tech stock - while it may bust the odds are great that it could bring a ton of value.  Mid-first round picks are like mature manufacturing stocks - could bust, a few will be stars, and most will be contributors.  Late firsts and early seconds are like lottery tickets - most are worth nothing but a few rare ones will be high value picks.

In the last few years, the guys who have gone in this range:

2016

Furkan Korkmaz
Pascal Siakam
Skal Labissiere
Dejounte Murray
Damian Jones
Deyonta Davis
Ivica Zubac
Cheick Diallo
Tyler Ulis
Rade Zagorac
Malcolm Brogdon

 

2015

Nikola Milutinov
Larry Nance Jr.
R.J. Hunter
Chris McCullough
Kevon Looney
Cedi Osman
Montrezl Harrell
Jordan Mickey
Anthony Brown
Willy Hernangomez
Rakeem Christmas
 

2014

P.J. Hairston
Bogdan Bogdanovic
C.J. Wilcox
Josh Huestis
Kyle Anderson
Damien Inglis
K.J. McDaniels
Joe Harris
Cleanthony Early
Jarnell Stokes
Johnny O'Bryant III
 

No one is giving you much for a pick 3 years from now that most likely will be the next RJ Hunter and we should hope for the next Paul Millsap but expect the next Priest Lauderdale.

 

What did you expect to get for a player like Korver?  A lottery pick?  His career is basically over and you are not satisfied with a late 1st round pick for a guy that will be retired from the game in 2019?

[noble]

Here's the other thing you all are missing. It would seem that they are going to stockpile and try to move up in the draft. First Korver, now they are shopping both Sap and Thabo. If they can get some assets for a draft day trade they may be trying to get a franchise style player. Now, I don't personally have that much faith in the powers that be in Atlanta, but if they do pull something like this off, it could change and help the franchise....but this is the Hawks, so you never know.

[Watchman]

10 hours ago, Sothron said:

You guys...cmon now. Korver is done. He'll look good in Cle because they'll only highlight his open threes that Lebron, Love and Irving will get him and not talk about his horrible defensive play at this point in his career. I hate that we made a conference rival stronger but Cle was the only team offering a first round pick even if its a crappy one. We flipped an expiring 37  year old player who can't guard anyone for at least some kind of potential first rounder. It isn't the greatest trade in the world but it at least makes us better long term.

Funny.  I was listening to the Orlando game on the radio as I was on the way home from work.  Steve Holman commented about Kyle playing good defense on several plays.  Holman is not a "yes man", and quite frankly, I trust his evaluations more than people with agendas.  I haven't noticed any more defensive lapses coming from Korver than anyone else on the team.  I really don't understand the decision to do this after we have now started to turn the corner, and beat good teams like San Antonio again.  I just really don't get it.

[AHF]

4 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

What did you expect to get for a player like Korver?  A lottery pick?  His career is basically over and you are not satisfied with a late 1st round pick for a guy that will be retired from the game in 2019?

I think we could get comparable value (late first / early second) for him for a pick that will be available this offseason  (so the player is available next year rather than in 3 years) and wouldn't have to strengthen our biggest rival in the ECF to do it.  

The only reason I see to do this now is to open minutes for our rookies.

[Sothron]

5 minutes ago, Watchman said:

Funny.  I was listening to the Orlando game on the radio as I was on the way home from work.  Steve Holman commented about Kyle playing good defense on several plays.  Holman is not a "yes man", and quite frankly, I trust his evaluations more than people with agendas.  I haven't noticed any more defensive lapses coming from Korver than anyone else on the team.  I really don't understand the decision to do this after we have now started to turn the corner, and beat good teams like San Antonio again.  I just really don't get it.

I don't have an "agenda" with Korver. His play has clearly declined since the Delladova injury. The actual stats, the metrics, show our team this season is significantly better without him on the court than when he is on the court. I'm not sure what kind of proof you need. Korver making a few good defensive plays in a couple of games does not change anything. One is a blip on the radar, one is the reality of the totality of the situation.

[Watchman]

8 minutes ago, AHF said:

I think we could get comparable value (late first / early second) for him for a pick that will be available this offseason  (so the player is available next year rather than in 3 years) and wouldn't have to strengthen our biggest rival in the ECF to do it.  

The only reason I see to do this now is to open minutes for our rookies.

So we are in tank mode then.

[Guest]

OMFG listening to NBARadio today is ear-bleedingly annoying with all these eggsperts pretending like they know anything at all about the Hawks as they discuss this trade.

Legler basically says we should've kept the team together although we're clearly not in CLE's class and that our core won't be in their class for the next 4-5 years.  Huh?  Are we just cannon fodder?  I guess we're just supposed to stay in our place and not even try to get better, huh?

[Trout7]

I guess Korver leaving will cause Muscala and Bazemore to appoint themselves 3 point assassin's.  Lord help us.