What should this team do this off-season?

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

'Make it his Team?' - there is no one currently who deserves that moniker.

And if he were capable of being 'the man' he would've emerged during this stretch, no?

[Diesel]

3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

'Make it his Team?' - there is no one currently who deserves that moniker.

Who said anything about Deserve?  You empower people and they either live up to it or not.  Nobody deserves.  Who deserved the Miami Heat team with Lebron, Wade, and Bosh?  Who deserved the Spurs teams?  You'd go crazy and never find anybody if you're expecting Lebron to walk through that door.  However, when you Empower.....  They get a chance to live up to the honor.

 

 

[Guest]

Lang Whitaker was asked about the Hawks.  Color me disappointed in his stock answers ...

- Funny after losing 7 games, haven't lost any playoff standing.

- Question is what do they do in the offseason with Millsap, 2nd longest playoff streak but how do you take the next step?

- Hawks good at identifying talented wings, THJ, Printz, Bembry.

Blah, blah, blah ...

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Who said anything about Deserve?  You empower people and they either live up to it or not.  Nobody deserves.  Who deserved the Miami Heat team with Lebron, Wade, and Bosh?  Who deserved the Spurs teams?  You'd go crazy and never find anybody if you're expecting Lebron to walk through that door.  However, when you Empower.....  They get a chance to live up to the honor.

You are comparing the Miami trio?They were already established PROVEN players. 

The play of a player determines their standing on a team, when you are THAT good no coach needs to 'make it your team'  -  IT JUST IS!

[thecampster]

7 hours ago, kg01 said:

I think I agree with your 'givens', however, this is incomplete.  You can't just say 'well, we'll just trade Bazemore to move up in the draft' or stte.  That's akin to BOS fans saying 'we'll just trade Marcus Smart for Paul George'.  Yeah that works for you but why would the Pacers take that deal.

IOW, nobody's trading for Bazemore.  Why would PHI trade for him when they'll likely have 2 1sts with one of which they'll be drafting a 2 to build with.  Why would PHX, who's desperately trying to sell Booker as their 2 of the future, trade for Bazemore?  Especially when they have a better guard in Bledsoe on the trading block.

I'm not tearing down your whole scenario, just that one aspect of it.  Trading Baze will be a salary dump type of deal.  To me, trading him to BKN would make the most sense because they're desperate for players almost regardless of salary.  Problem is, they don't have anything we'd want.  IOW, we're not getting value in return for Baze.  I'd still do the deal just to get out from under his money so we can keep THJ.

Actually, if you read my Baze move it says to trade him for a high 2nd rounder (hence the teams listed) + filler.  I.E. we take back come of their salary (approximately $10 million) to help them.  So let me look at their rosters for an example.

Denver targets = Faried, Chandler

Phoenix targets = Dudley, Chandler, Knight

Philly targets = picks....Philly only has $35 million committed next season. They'll need to add $55 million in salary just to meet the NBA minimum. Philly is the most reasonable target.

Lakers targets = their roster is a mess and it would require a package.

 

But it is doable. All of these teams need talent and Baze is a legit NBA talent, he just isn't on par with Hardaway. Although he is overpaid, there are teams where that is a good thing...Philly for example.

I've mentioned this in other posts, but the cap goes both ways. There is a minimum and a maximum. The penalty for missing the minimum is that salary is divided and added to your current players. There is no point in not adding salary to the minimum if it can get you talent.  Brooklyn and Dallas are other teams who will have too low of salary starting next year. So there are places to move Baze to keep Timmy and create space to sign better overall roster talent.

 

The part of my post that talks about moving up in the draft is using our future assets (the 2nds + the 2 future firsts).  So lets look at the scenario of Hawks with the 14th pick.  Hawks trade 14th pick + the Minny 1st and one of their future 2nds to move up to 10 to take Markkanen. That is very doable.

Edited March 28, 2017 by thecampster

[Diesel]

17 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

You are comparing the Miami trio?They were already established PROVEN players. 

The play of a player determines their standing on a team, when you are THAT good no coach needs to 'make it your team'  -  IT JUST IS!

I disagree.  I believe when you leave it up to players to determine you get a lot of Hero ball like you see with Dennis.  A coach has to set a tone and empower.  Miami is an elegant example because fans made it Lebron's team, however, Wade was the one that Spokstra empowered and Wade deferred some of his power to Lebron. 

People think that the showtime Lakers were Magic's team and no nothing about the 2 fist in the air.

 

[macdaddy]

I'm concerned whether Hardaway will ever be consistent enough to get to the next level.   Tying up big money in 2 roller coaster SGs could be disastrous.  

[Guest]

38 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I'm concerned whether Hardaway will ever be consistent enough to get to the next level.   Tying up big money in 2 roller coaster SGs could be disastrous.  

It's a legit concern.  This no-Millsap stretch was tailor-made for him to step up and be 'the guy' to the extent one can be 'the guy' in our system and he just hasn't done it.  He's gotta go a looong way to be as useless as the other guy you mentioned though so he's still one I'd like us to keep/pay.

Still, we've got to find a way to shed the other guy.  Having that much tied into the 2G position isn't so egregious.  It'd be a worse problem if we had, say, that much tied up in multiple 5's.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Diesel said:

I disagree.  I believe when you leave it up to players to determine you get a lot of Hero ball like you see with Dennis.  A coach has to set a tone and empower.  Miami is an elegant example because fans made it Lebron's team, however, Wade was the one that Spokstra empowered and Wade deferred some of his power to Lebron. 

People think that the showtime Lakers were Magic's team and no nothing about the 2 fist in the air.

 

Wade was already empowered long before Lebron arrived.  Wade was able to deffer because he knew that Lebron was/is THAT GOOD.

A player's play and his teammates decide whose 'team it is'

THJr has had a chance to step forward in Millsap's absence, how's that working out.  A coach stepping in and making a 'this is his team' statement without him actually doing it on the floor consistently is a recipe for disaster.

[Trout7]

Rehire Danny Ferry.

[Thomas]

10 hours ago, Trout7 said:

Rehire Danny Ferry.

Last I saw he was a Special Advisor for the Pelicans. Imagine his proof reading skills have improved greatly.

[NBASupes]

On 3/31/2017 at 3:49 PM, Trout7 said:

Rehire Danny Ferry.

The racist might need to come back but he burned a lot of bridges in the organization and it was him letting Drew go before the draft that put us in this situation to begin with. 

[benhillboy]

I was searching the 'net for the worst contracts but Baze didn't even get mentioned.  His single win shares are worth $8.7 million to Ressler.  Sounds awful huh?  For some reason forwards litter the lists with Teletovic, Jeff Green (that man died in Orlando), and Deng.  Chandler Parsons though?  $110.5 million per win share.  Damn, Memphis (lol at Hollinger).  Baze could be a whole lot worse.  Still want him packaged up like an Amazon order.

Edited April 2, 2017 by benhillboy

[AHF]

On 4/2/2017 at 10:27 AM, benhillboy said:

I was searching the 'net for the worst contracts but Baze didn't even get mentioned.  

The NBA’s worst offseason contracts and who could be next

Kent Bazemore, Atlanta Hawks – Four-year, $70 million

Bazemore turned his hard-working attitude and tenacious defense into a mammoth deal in Atlanta. However, with an expanded role, Bazemore hasn’t upped his game. Instead, he’s been a mediocre offensive presence.

Bazemore is averaging fewer points (11.0 vs 11.6) on more shots (10.1 vs 9.7) from season to season. The 27-year-old hasn’t found his long-range stroke (down from 35 to 33 percent) and is missing two-pointers — shooting 44 percent — at the worst rate since his rookie campaign. Unlike Mozgov and Noah, Bazemore still helps the Hawks despite poor shooting numbers. I’m not fully convinced his contract is a sunk expense. But Bazemore needs to improve his game somehow. At his current rate, his production doesn’t cut it.

http://thecomeback.com/nba/worst-nba-free-agent-contracts-next.html

Worst Contracts of the 2016-2017 Off-Season 

Kent Bazemore: Bazemore signed a 4-year, 70 million deal over the offseason to stay with the Atlanta Hawks. Bazemore has played in 32 games while starting in 29 of them.

The 27year-old went undrafted, and is now a 70 million dollar man. This season, Bazemore is averaging 10.0 points, 3.2 rebounds, 2.6 assists, 1.4 steals and 0.7 blocks per game while playing 27.4 minutes per game. He isn’t a bad player, it’s just the contract is so big.

http://hoopsnations.com/worst-contracts-of-the-2016-2017-off-season/

Bad And Ugly Contracts On Every NBA Team

The Bad: Kent Bazemore 3 years / $50M

In case you want to keep the German point guard, trade Bazemore, who's OK, but not worth that type of money at this stage of his development.

 

The Kings avoided disastrous contracts in 2016 free agency

Even if they were shunned by top free agents, the Kings didn’t pay $70 million for Evan Turner or Kent Bazemore.

 

And others.  Toxic contract.

 

[Guest]

Speaking of things that should be done in the offseason, I vote we vote people off the board.

What say you, @AHF?  Shirley (can I call you Shirley) you're on board since you voted off hawksfanatic and @Dolfan23 as if none of us would notice.

[DBac]

Listen to trade offers on the entire roster except guys on rookie deals.

[TRW]

1. Trade Dennis, Bazemore, Prince or a future 1st for D. Lillard and Portlands 7-1 center who shoots the three. We need a big time scorer and shooter. Two non shooters at PG and C can't work in todays game.  

2. Throw everything else at Paul George, I like him over Butler.

3. Sign Danilo Gallinari.

4. Resign THJ.

5. I love Sap but let him walk. If I can't get Paul George then bring back Millsap at a reasonable price.

6. Resign Ersan if the money is right.

7. I would love to see a lineup with Dame, THJ, PG13, Gallinari, and D8. Bud could run his offense the way it should run. This lineup is similar to the Orlando Magic teams when the D8 was at his best. Rebounding would be an issue but this team would be exciting. Even if we couldn't get PG13, it still would look good with Milsap also.

[AHF]

5 hours ago, kg01 said:

Speaking of things that should be done in the offseason, I vote we vote people off the board.

What say you, @AHF?  Shirley (can I call you Shirley) you're on board since you voted off hawksfanatic and @Dolfan23 as if none of us would notice.

Can we do it in draft format like our annual summer draft?  That could be fascinating.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

Can we do it in draft format like our annual summer draft?  That could be fascinating.

Didn't you lose an avatar bet?  SMH, didn't even pay up.  That's bush league, man.  Paging @hazer.  I say we make hazer change his avatar too for not following through.  Boooo these men!!

[AHF]

17 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Didn't you lose an avatar bet?  SMH, didn't even pay up.  That's bush league, man.  Paging @hazer.  I say we make hazer change his avatar too for not following through.  Boooo these men!!

I've been ready to pay up from day 1.  Step 1 is hazer makes his pick.  Step 2 is I change it.

 

Step 3 is that I continue to question whether we really had any intention to cut Patterson and whether we actually signed an impact player.