Draft chatter with Travis Schlenk

[Sothron]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

Its not heavily protected, its top 10 protected next year and Lebron might leave. I think you just want to push the worse case scenario out of frustration. Maybe KG01 is right. You need a hug

We have been in the worst case scenario for the NBA for years now. Being stuck in the middle as a team good enough to make the playoffs but have no shot whatsoever to win a title is the worst thing you can be as a franchise. Every expert and talking head agrees with this. Heck @AHF has agreed with me on this several times in the past. Same thing as needing superstars to win titles.

I appreciate the hug offer. I am just tired of this franchise being a doormat in the playoffs. We need a superstar and the only way we're getting one is the draft.

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, Sothron said:

We have been in the worst case scenario for the NBA for years now. Being stuck in the middle as a team good enough to make the playoffs but have no shot whatsoever to win a title is the worst thing you can be as a franchise. Every expert and talking head agrees with this. Heck @AHF has agreed with me on this several times in the past. Same thing as needing superstars to win titles.

I appreciate the hug offer. I am just tired of this franchise being a doormat in the playoffs. We need a superstar and the only way we're getting one is the

Here is the thing that I don't understand...many have tried your tank method including us numerous times and it hasn't worked out. Secondly, Your head coach will quit before suffering through a tank spell...he will leave. Thirdly, we will most likely end up with several lottery picks over the next 3 years to go along with Dennis, Hardaway, and Prince. We will end up with either a star or several pieces that will entice a star here.  Of course that 3rd statement is too optimistic for your moribund outlook but its probably a more accurate prediction than what the protankers believe.

[Sothron]

7 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Here is the thing that I don't understand...many have tried your tank method including us numerous times and it hasn't worked out. Secondly, Your head coach will quit before suffering through a tank spell...he will leave. Thirdly, we will most likely end up with several lottery picks over the next 3 years to go along with Dennis, Hardaway, and Prince. We will end up with either a star or several pieces that will entice a star here.  Of course that 3rd statement is too optimistic for your moribund outlook but its probably a more accurate prediction than what the protankers believe.

How are we ending up with several top 10 picks over the next years?

Many have tried to rebuild and it worked out wonderfully for them. You think rebuilding is the same thing as tanking. We don't have to intentionally lose. If you are going to lose, lose young and hope the kids grow. We already got two players to keep in Dennis and Prince. The rest are either too old, trash on bad deals (bazemore) or a useless chucker like Hardaway. I'm not getting into backup and scrubs.

This team has a serious talent issue. Just letting those guys go or moving Dwight will make this team lose naturally due to what is on the roster. No one is intentionally losing. That's rebuilding. Not keeping aging or mediocre players around and hoping someone else's protected first will bear fruit sometime down the line.

[AHF]

24 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Here is the thing that I don't understand...many have tried your tank method including us numerous times and it hasn't worked out. 

How many teams hung around the middle and saw that work out with a ring?  

Many championship teams have hung around the middle and avoided a dip into the lottery?  Almost no champions were built that way.  Nearly every one got into the lottery, drafted their foundational star, and built from there.

If your prediction of multiple lottery picks over the next 3 years works out then I'll be psyched but I'm skeptical of both that prediction and your prediction that we will land a superstar and/or great pieces that will attract a superstar.

[Peoriabird]

5 minutes ago, Sothron said:

How are we ending up with several top 10 picks over the next years?

Many have tried to rebuild and it worked out wonderfully for them. You think rebuilding is the same thing as tanking. We don't have to intentionally lose. If you are going to lose, lose young and hope the kids grow. We already got two players to keep in Dennis and Prince. The rest are either too old, trash on bad deals (bazemore) or a useless chucker like Hardaway. I'm not getting into backup and scrubs.

This team has a serious talent issue. Just letting those guys go or moving Dwight will make this team lose naturally due to what is on the roster. No one is intentionally losing. That's rebuilding. Not keeping aging or mediocre players around and hoping someone else's protected first will bear fruit sometime down the line.

Personally, I don't think we make the playoffs next year and possibly the following year because I don't think Millsap is here resulting in 2 lottery picks...I think LeBron leaves Cleveland because he knows he can't win another title there which turns Cleveland into this years Miami Heat which is another lottery pick. If Minnesota barely squeaks into the 8th seed in the west, basically another lottery pick. So yes we can potentially have several lottery picks over the next 3 years

[AHF]

Ironically, I am more optimistic about our playoff chances next year (assuming Sap and Timmy are back) than you are Peoriabird!

[Peoriabird]

Just now, AHF said:

How many teams hung around the middle and saw that work out with a ring?  

Many teams have hung around the middle and avoided a dip into the lottery?  Almost no champions were built that way.  Nearly every one got into the lottery, drafted their foundational star, and built from there.

If your prediction of multiple lottery picks over the next 3 years works out then I'll be psyched but I'm skeptical of both that prediction and your prediction that we will land a superstar and/or great pieces that will attract a superstar.

Recently, I can only name 1 ot her middle team...Mephis.  who are the others? Toronto?

[AHF]

3 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Recently, I can only name 1 ot her middle team...Mephis.  who are the others? Toronto?

Atlanta Hawks

Indiana Pacers

Memphis Grizzlies

Toronto Raptors

Chicago Bulls

Portland Trailblazers

Milwaukee Bucks

Dallas Mavericks

....

There are plenty.

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

Ironically, I am more optimistic about our playoff chances next year (assuming Sap and Timmy are back) than you are Peoriabird!

You right because y'all still think Bud is a superstar coach which he isn't..Teams are on to his philosophy that took the league by storm 3 years ago and have adapted..he has not. And we are starting to see that he isn't the master player developer posters made him out to be.

[AHF]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

You right because y'all still think Bud is a superstar coach which he isn't..Teams are on to his philosophy that took the league by storm 3 years ago and have adapted..he has not. And we are starting to see that he isn't the master player developer posters made him out to be.

Which is again ironic since you are banking on major improvements from Baze and I am skeptical of them.  We are zigzagging a lot!  (I don't think Bud is a master player developer - I think he does a good job but you can only work with what you have).

[Peoriabird]

Just now, AHF said:

Indiana Pacers

Memphis Grizzlies

Toronto Raptors

Chicago Bulls

Portland Trailblazers

Milwaukee Bucks

....

There are plenty.

Those team supposedly have their super star/stars right?

 

[AHF]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

Those team supposedly have their super star/stars right?

 

No.  They don't.  They are just treading water in the middle of the pack.  Dirk used to be a superstar but is past that era.  All these others have one or more good players who can or should make the All-Star team but no super stars.

[sturt]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

You right because y'all still think Bud is a superstar coach which he isn't..Teams are on to his philosophy that took the league by storm 3 years ago and have adapted..he has not. And we are starting to see that he isn't the master player developer posters made him out to be.

I've been avoiding this discussion, but will jump in just this much...

My interpretation of the evidence is, not that Bud's coaching philosophy itself has been solved/adapted to, but that he simply lost his version of Steph Curry when Korver had elbow surgery, and in general, the talent/production took a dip.

To the contrary... as has been widely held by now... the GSW ball-sharing game isn't all that different from the SAS ball-sharing game, and when you have the horses, that philosophy itself remains king.

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

No.  They don't.  They are just treading water in the middle of the pack.  Dirk used to be a superstar but is past that era.  All these others have one or more good players who can or should make the All-Star team but no super stars.

So Derozen and Lowry aren't superstars?

Butler and Wade aren't superstars?

Greek freak and Parker aren't up and coming superstars?

Paul George isn't a superstar?

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

So Derozen and Lowry aren't superstars?

Butler and Wade aren't superstars?

Greek freak and Parker aren't up and coming superstars?

Paul George isn't a superstar?

So if those guys aren't super stars or players to build around and you consider teams that are building around those players treadmill team then the Hawks will forever be a treadmill team because I'm not sure who everyone hopes to land that will be better than those guys

[macdaddy]

1 hour ago, Sothron said:

Being stuck in the middle as a team good enough to make the playoffs but have no shot whatsoever to win a title is the worst thing you can be as a franchise. Every expert and talking head agrees with this.

But isn't this true of about 20-25 teams in the league if you look at the last 10 years?   They've all tried multiple different ways to have a shot and failed.   Because there is no one fool proof way to do it.   

[Sothron]

14 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

But isn't this true of about 20-25 teams in the league if you look at the last 10 years?   They've all tried multiple different ways to have a shot and failed.   Because there is no one fool proof way to do it.   

Could you be a little more specific? 25 teams over 10 years is a bit of a time line to try and discuss. Most middle of the road teams eventually realize the current roster isn't working and blow it up to try and get better. The Sonics blew it up years back and started rebuilding and got Durant, Westbrook and Harden out of it. Other teams already had one guy and found ways to get another to join them.

40 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

So Derozen and Lowry aren't superstars?

Butler and Wade aren't superstars?

Greek freak and Parker aren't up and coming superstars?

Paul George isn't a superstar?

Wade used to be one, Greek freak absolutely is, PG is right there. Butler is a little below him. Derozen and Lowry are this era's Mookie and Smitty.

[Peoriabird]

22 minutes ago, Sothron said:

 

Wade used to be one, Greek freak absolutely is, PG is right there. Butler is a little below him. Derozen and Lowry are this era's Mookie and Smitty.

Let me get this straight...Milwaukee is a treadmill team that should start over...Chicago should get rid of Butler and start over.  Toronto should get rid of Derozen and Lowry and gut there team..Memphis should get rid of there big 3 and start over.  Indy should get rid of Paul George and gut the team...Did I miss any body?

[Sothron]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

Let me get this straight...Milwaukee is a treadmill team that should start over...Chicago should get rid of Butler and start over.  Toronto should get rid of Derozen and Lowry and gut there team..Memphis should get rid of there big 3 and start over.  Indy should get rid of Paul George and gut the team...Did I miss any body?

I didn't call those teams treadmill teams but all the ones you just listed are except the Bucks. They have that transcendent superstar in Greek Freak that they got in the draft. The rest of those teams have all star players or quasi-super stars in PG and Butler that want off their current teams.

In answer to your question though, all of those teams you listed except the Bucks should blow it up.

[macdaddy]

22 minutes ago, Sothron said:

Could you be a little more specific? 25 teams over 10 years is a bit of a time line to try and discuss. Most middle of the road teams eventually realize the current roster isn't working and blow it up to try and get better. The Sonics blew it up years back and started rebuilding and got Durant, Westbrook and Harden out of it. Other teams already had one guy and found ways to get another to join them.

My point is how many teams have contended for a title the last 10-15 years?   Of the ones that didn't I'd say many tried the blow up approach, many didn't and all failed to contend.     With only a handful of teams actually contending (and there are different paths of how they got there but that's not even the point) your chances of contending by taking any particular approach aren't very good and definitely one approach is no more of a sure thing than another.