Draft chatter with Travis Schlenk

[Peoriabird]

24 minutes ago, Sothron said:

The Wolves are far closer to contender status than we are. They have to walk before they can run but that franchise has done the hard work and is now reaping the rewards. Meanwhile our franchise toils in playoff mediocrity with no chance of getting over the hump with the current lineup.

You guys disagree that we need to rebuild but you don't actually disagree that our current team isn't a contender. So which is it? You can't have both. Unless you want the franchise to stay a first round doormat?

You are just not making any sense...You make it seem as though the Hawks are trading away draft pick for over the hill Vets to stay relevant when they aren't.  They traded Teague and Korver for 1st round pick but yet you still think they are maintaining the status quo.  I repeat again, We have a lot of picks over the next 3 years so a rebuild is inevitable.  What are you complaining about exactly???

[hazer]

5 hours ago, KB21 said:

Even Travis Schlenk stated that it took seven years for Golden State to get to the point that they were a playoff contender. 

You're leaving out the very important part he said directly after that: the Hawks are in better shape now than GSW were at the beginning of that 7 year span.

[hazer]

19 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

You are just not making any sense...What are you complaining about exactly???

Dwight Howard? Wait, what the...

[Sothron]

58 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

You are just not making any sense...You make it seem as though the Hawks are trading away draft pick for over the hill Vets to stay relevant when they aren't.  They traded Teague and Korver for 1st round pick but yet you still think they are maintaining the status quo.  I repeat again, We have a lot of picks over the next 3 years so a rebuild is inevitable.  What are you complaining about exactly???

Resigning Millsap and Ilyasova and keeping the same team is what I am against. What I don't understand are you people saying we don't need to rebuild, we are fine, let's keep being mediocre.

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, Sothron said:

Resigning Millsap and Ilyasova and keeping the same team is what I am against. What I don't understand are you people saying we don't need to rebuild, we are fine, let's keep being mediocre.

Whether we resign those 2 or not, we still will have the draft picks and can move Millsap and Ilyasova if the Hawks chose to do so.  So I still don't understand your complaint

[MaceCase]

1 hour ago, Sothron said:

The Wolves are far closer to contender status than we are. They have to walk before they can run but that franchise has done the hard work and is now reaping the rewards. Meanwhile our franchise toils in playoff mediocrity with no chance of getting over the hump with the current lineup.

You guys disagree that we need to rebuild but you don't actually disagree that our current team isn't a contender. So which is it? You can't have both. Unless you want the franchise to stay a first round doormat?

The thing is "rebuild" is not the same as what you are actually trying to say which is tank.  That's what people disagree on. 

And no, nobody sees a team that has been in the lotto for 13 seasons and isn't even in striking distance of a 1st round and out 8th seed as a being close to a contender.  That's what people fear, they are not willing to buy that bill of goods that you seemingly have on auto-renew.  

 

[sturt]

Dang. Wish Jerry West would have considered serving in an advisory role to his good friend and protege Travis, but it appears his heart is set on assisting any team that considers the Lakers their rival instead, eh?

[Sothron]

8 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

Whether we resign those 2 or not, we still will have the draft picks and can move Millsap and Ilyasova if the Hawks chose to do so.  So I still don't understand your complaint

You are either being willfully obtuse or come by it naturally if you "still don't understand my complaint" after I have explained several times in this thread alone.

[macdaddy]

18 hours ago, Sothron said:

I'll post the same question to you: do you suggest we never rebuild? Ever? Do you realize how silly and unrealistic that sounds?

We are rebuilding.   Just not by tanking.

[AHF]

I think Sothron sees rebuilding as turning over older players in keystone roles so resigning Sap and Ilya means old and not rebuilding.  Not sure but that is how I'm reading it.

Also betting more strongly that he sees a bunch of mid to late first round picks and second rounders as not enough draft powder for a rebuild.  Quantity is not the sole or even primary tool for getting a superstar in the draft.

[Peoriabird]

10 minutes ago, AHF said:

I think Sothron sees rebuilding as turning over older players in keystone roles so resigning Sap and Ilya means old and not rebuilding.  Not sure but that is how I'm reading it.

Also betting more strongly that he sees a bunch of mid to late first round picks and second rounders as not enough draft powder for a rebuild.  Quantity is not the sole or even primary tool for getting a superstar in the draft.

So I'm not the only one who can't completely understand what he is saying.  Also if we resigned Millsap and Ilyasova and then turned them into young assets, isn't that a form of rebuilding also?

[AHF]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

So I'm not the only one who can't completely understand what he is saying.  Also if we resigned Millsap and Ilyasova and then turned them into young assets, isn't that a form of rebuilding also?

Flippiing Sap and Sova for young assets would definitely be a form of rebuilding.

[Peoriabird]

Just now, AHF said:

Flippiing Sap and Sova for young assets would definitely be a form of rebuilding.

So why is he calling me obtuse when I clearly stated that might be an option?

[AHF]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

So why is he calling me obtuse when I clearly stated that might be an option?

Here is my best read:

Sothron's complaint is that resigning Sap and Ilya won't move the needle and won't allow us to get a piece that will move the needle so by resigning them we will be where we have been for most years the last decade:  a presumptive playoff team with no chance at contending.  (Probably doesn't see Ilya as being able to bring much value or Sap on a high $$ contract being able to bring much but that is not really addressed one way or the other).  He doesn't think our non-lottery and second round picks will move the needle.  Hence, he doesn't see a true rebuild which he considers something more drastic with the chance to change the status quo.

You say you don't understand why he isn't happy resigning our vets and drafting with our picks.  He says he has explained several times that this isn't enough.  So when you say again that he should embrace this strategy he calls you obtuse because he is frustrated perceiving your posts as not being responsive to what he has laid out.

Like I said, that is my best guess on it.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

So why is he calling me obtuse when I clearly stated that might be an option?

I think @Sothron is mad at the (Hawks) world right now.  He really needs our love and support.  I'm giving him a virtual hug right now.  I suggest you do the same.

Really though, I think soth secretly wants us to tank.  He just can't bring himself to say the word(s).

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

Here is my best read:

Sothron's complaint is that resigning Sap and Ilya won't move the needle and won't allow us to get a piece that will move the needle so by resigning them we will be where we have been for most years the last decade:  a presumptive playoff team with no chance at contending.  (Probably doesn't see Ilya as being able to bring much value or Sap on a high $$ contract being able to bring much but that is not really addressed one way or the other).  He doesn't think our non-lottery and second round picks will move the needle.  Hence, he doesn't see a true rebuild which he considers something more drastic with the chance to change the status quo.

You say you don't understand why he isn't happy resigning our vets and drafting with our picks.  He says he has explained several times that this isn't enough.  So when you say again that he should embrace this strategy he calls you obtuse because he is frustrated perceiving your posts as not being responsive to what he has laid out.

Like I said, that is my best guess on it.

My statement was that we were rebuilding regardless of whether Sap and/or Ilyasova was resigned because we still have those picks over the next 3 years and the value of some of those have nothing to do with our record. Plus we have the option of moving Sap and Ilyasova if the right deal came around. If Sap nor Ilyasova aren't resigned then those options aren't available. Of course resigning Sap and Ilyasova depends on their cost but if a traded friendly deal is reached with either or both, any good GM would pull the trigger not just an obtuse message board GM's like myself.

[Sothron]

17 minutes ago, AHF said:

Here is my best read:

Sothron's complaint is that resigning Sap and Ilya won't move the needle and won't allow us to get a piece that will move the needle so by resigning them we will be where we have been for most years the last decade:  a presumptive playoff team with no chance at contending.  (Probably doesn't see Ilya as being able to bring much value or Sap on a high $$ contract being able to bring much but that is not really addressed one way or the other).  He doesn't think our non-lottery and second round picks will move the needle.  Hence, he doesn't see a true rebuild which he considers something more drastic with the chance to change the status quo.

You say you don't understand why he isn't happy resigning our vets and drafting with our picks.  He says he has explained several times that this isn't enough.  So when you say again that he should embrace this strategy he calls you obtuse because he is frustrated perceiving your posts as not being responsive to what he has laid out.

Like I said, that is my best guess on it.

Finally, someone gets what was to me fairly obvious from the start.

Having middling picks and aging players on lengthy contracts is not rebuilding. At all. That is a recipe for disaster. No one is going to move young assets for the mid 30 or older players on big deals.

There's only way to win titles in the NBA. Superstars. You can only get them in three ways. We aren't trading for one, we can't sign one and that leaves the draft. I have said that more than once in the thread. I can't connect the dots more strongly.

[Peoriabird]

4 minutes ago, Sothron said:

Finally, someone gets what was to me fairly obvious from the start.

Having middling picks and aging players on lengthy contracts is not rebuilding. At all. That is a recipe for disaster. No one is going to move young assets for the mid 30 or older players on big deals.

There's only way to win titles in the NBA. Superstars. You can only get them in three ways. We aren't trading for one, we can't sign one and that leaves the draft. I have said that more than once in the thread. I can't connect the dots more strongly.

Didn't cleveland trade a 1st to us for Korver?

[Sothron]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

Didn't cleveland trade a 1st to us for Korver?

A heavily protected first rounder years from now. Cleveland wanted to gear up for a title run. Who else is going to be doing that in the next few years with GSW/CLE on top?

[Peoriabird]

6 minutes ago, Sothron said:

A heavily protected first rounder years from now. Cleveland wanted to gear up for a title run. Who else is going to be doing that in the next few years with GSW/CLE on top?

Its not heavily protected, its top 10 protected next year and Lebron might leave. I think you just want to push the worse case scenario narrative out of frustration. Maybe KG01 is right. You need a hug