Draft chatter with Travis Schlenk

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, Sothron said:

I didn't call those teams treadmill teams but all the ones you just listed are except the Bucks. They have that transcendent superstar in Greek Freak that they got in the draft. The rest of those teams have all star players or quasi-super stars in PG and Butler that want off their current teams.

In answer to your question though, all of those teams you listed except the Bucks should blow it up.

Lol!!!!!

[Sothron]

4 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

My point is how many teams have contended for a title the last 10-15 years?   Of the ones that didn't I'd say many tried the blow up approach, many didn't and all failed to contend.     With only a handful of teams actually contending (and there are different paths of how they got there but that's not even the point) your chances of contending by taking any particular approach aren't very good and definitely one approach is no more of a sure thing than another.   

So...your argument is that we should do what, exactly? Some teams blow things up and it become champions or in that contender status. I absolutely agree with you that only a handful of teams each year are actual contenders. I have said that for years. The problem with the NBA that is not going to be fixed is that you either have the superstar(s) to win a title with or you don't.

I want us off that treadmill. Go for broke. Try to get that guy that can potentially take us to a Finals.

5 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Lol!!!!!

Ok...?

[macdaddy]

1 hour ago, Sothron said:

So...your argument is that we should do what, exactly? Some teams blow things up and it become champions or in that contender status. I absolutely agree with you that only a handful of teams each year are actual contenders. I have said that for years. The problem with the NBA that is not going to be fixed is that you either have the superstar(s) to win a title with or you don't.

I want us off that treadmill. Go for broke. Try to get that guy that can potentially take us to a Finals.

Ok...?

My argument is that 'going for broke' and tanking for high draft picks probably gives you a 10% chance of winning a title in the following 10 years.   While trying to compete and build without tanking for high draft picks gives you about a 10% chance of winning a title in the following 10 years.   While we all have a preference, there isn't a proven better path.   So accusing those who chose the path you don't prefer of not wanting to 'go for it' or being destined to fail is wrong.  

[Peoriabird]

1 hour ago, Sothron said:

So...your argument is that we should do what, exactly? Some teams blow things up and it become champions or in that contender status. I absolutely agree with you that only a handful of teams each year are actual contenders. I have said that for years. The problem with the NBA that is not going to be fixed is that you either have the superstar(s) to win a title with or you don't.

I want us off that treadmill. Go for broke. Try to get that guy that can potentially take us to a Finals.

Ok...?

You would actually get rid of Butler, Paul George, Miles Turner, Derozen, Lowry, Gasol, Mike Conley for draft picks and then tanks?  Lol

[GrimeyKidd]

Gonna love me some Dwight Howard as a hawk next season

[Sothron]

25 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

You would actually get rid of Butler, Paul George, Miles Turner, Derozen, Lowry, Gasol, Mike Conley for draft picks and then tanks?  Lol

I never said I'd trade Turner. Butler and PG already want off their teams. Those GMs have a motivated interest in trading them. If those guys wanted to stay then I'd build around them.

As for the other guys, answer me this: do you really see the Raptors winning a title with Derozen and Lowry as their best players? How about Grizz with Gasol and Conley? If the answer is no then what's the point of being a first or second round playoff exit team?

[Peoriabird]

7 minutes ago, Sothron said:

I never said I'd trade Turner. Butler and PG already want off their teams. Those GMs have a motivated interest in trading them. If those guys wanted to stay then I'd build around them.

As for the other guys, answer me this: do you really see the Raptors winning a title with Derozen and Lowry as their best players? How about Grizz with Gasol and Conley? If the answer is no then what's the point of being a first or second round playoff exit team?

You said that you would blow it up...maybe I'm too obtuse to understand what blow it up means.

[AHF]

6 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

You said that you would blow it up...maybe I'm too obtuse to understand what blow it up means.

It means keeping your young players and trading the vets for lottery picks.

[Peoriabird]

Just now, AHF said:

It means keeping your young players and trading the vets for lottery picks.

How young is young? Is Derozen 30 yet?

[AHF]

3 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

So Derozen and Lowry aren't superstars?

Butler and Wade aren't superstars?

Greek freak and Parker aren't up and coming superstars?

Paul George isn't a superstar?

Derozen and Lowry - F no they aren't superstars.  Are you kidding me?

Wade?  You have to be joking.

Butler?  He isn't but he is at least good enough to be the second guy on a championship team.

Greek freak has the potential to be one.  Parker doesn't.

George looked like he was trending that way before his injuries.  Now he is not that guy and is no longer mentally engaged.

[Peoriabird]

26 minutes ago, AHF said:

Derozen and Lowry - F no they aren't superstars.  Are you kidding me?

Wade?  You have to be joking.

Butler?  He isn't but he is at least good enough to be the second guy on a championship team.

Greek freak has the potential to be one.  Parker doesn't.

George looked like he was trending that way before his injuries.  Now he is not that guy and is no longer mentally engaged.

Well, when Duncan was no longer an all star, you were using him in your study to proved your point in your lottery picks= championships series

[Peoriabird]

Ok..other than LeBron and Durant, who are the Super stars in this league?

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, AHF said:

George looked like he was trending that way before his injuries.  Now he is not that guy and is no longer mentally engaged.

Hmmmm...I think PG13 is there...Butler too possibly he still has a few years to prove he is a #1.

If Paul George isn't a superstar then there's only like 10-12 superstars in the NBA. PG13 is a top 20 NBA player without question, I'd even go top 15.

Ps I hate Larry Drew if I haven't mentioned it 137 times already...

 

 

Gianniiiiiisssssss whhhhyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy :-(

[Bankingitbig]

13 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Ok..other than LeBron and Durant, who are the Super stars in this league?

LeBron, Durant, Leonard, Westbrook, Harden, Curry, Davis, Paul, George

Players that are close: Giannis, Cousins, Butler

This is obviously just my own opinion. I think you could win a championship with those guys as your best players depending on what pieces you have around them. That said, I still think there are tiers to it with LeBron, Durant and Leonard at Tier 1. Westbrook, Harden and Curry Tier 2, Davis, Paul and George Tier 3 and Giannis, Cousins and Butler Tier 4.

[Sothron]

45 minutes ago, AHF said:

It means keeping your young players and trading the vets for lottery picks.

Apparently he's too obtuse to understand this.

[Peoriabird]

7 minutes ago, Bankingitbig said:

LeBron, Durant, Leonard, Westbrook, Harden, Curry, Davis, Paul, George

Players that are close: Giannis, Cousins, Butler

This is obviously just my own opinion. I think you could win a championship with those guys as your best players depending on what pieces you have around them. That said, I still think there are tiers to it with LeBron, Durant and Leonard at Tier 1. Westbrook, Harden and Curry Tier 2, Davis, Paul and George Tier 3 and Giannis, Cousins and Butler Tier 4.

If paul George is Indy's superstar then why would they have to blow up the team? Kinda doesn't fit the tankers argument right?

[Sothron]

54 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

You said that you would blow it up...maybe I'm too obtuse to understand what blow it up means.

All joking aside you either are actually too obtuse to understand what I mean by rebuilding and what assets you keep versus getting rid of or you are just trying to troll at this point.

If you don't understand the difference in superstar-ish level players wanting to stay on a team vs wanting to leave and the effect that has on a franchise's decision to trade them then I don't know what else to say to you.

[Peoriabird]

4 minutes ago, Sothron said:

All joking aside you either are actually too obtuse to understand what I mean by rebuilding and what assets you keep versus getting rid of or you are just trying to troll at this point.

If you don't understand the difference in superstar-ish level players wanting to stay on a team vs wanting to leave and the effect that has on a franchise's decision to trade them then I don't know what else to say to you.

Now we have a new category...Superstar-ish who wants to leave his team.  So we can draft what think is a star players and he ends up Super Star-ish and may want to leave the Hawks. Another reason not to play the lotto! Lol!

[DBac]

Funny thing is the Pacers briefly were good enough to make the finals with Paul George. They gave the Heat a good bit of trouble (took them to 7) then had all kinds of locker room problems because of Lance Stephenson and fell off.

 

[macdaddy]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

It means keeping your young players and trading the vets for lottery picks.

But who are the Hawks going to trade for a lottery pick at this point?