Windhorst: Hawks fielding Sign & Trade Offers for SAP...>TOTAL REBUILD

[MaceCase]

7 minutes ago, Bankingitbig said:

Couldn't a team like Denver us the SnT as a way to use their cap space for other free agents? Not 100% on the mechanics of it all. But I believe they could use some cap space to go out and sign free agents that they wouldn't have room to get if they immediately offered the max to Millsap. Then later do the SnT with us by sending salary away such as Faried and Arthur, along with picks as incentives.

There's a lot of problems.  Although things may be technically possible you have to also look at probability.

1stly) You'd have to deal with timing issues of Denver locking up other players while Sap waits out the negotiations without getting nervous that his pond is drying up because after all, he isn't getting any distinct monetary advantage to sign specifically with Denver in this scenario. 

2ndly) Denver would essentially have to work hand in hand with Atlanta throughout free agency which is unheard of.  Denver would have to target, pitch, negotiate and sign these other free agents, do the same for Sap and have Atlanta tag along the whole way believing that they can't do any better than Faried and Arthur as compensation for holding onto Sap's caphold.

[Bankingitbig]

4 minutes ago, MaceCase said:

There's a lot of problems.  Although things may be technically possible you have to also look at probability.

1stly) You'd have to deal with timing issues of Denver locking up other players while Sap waits out the negotiations without getting nervous that his pond is drying up because after all, he isn't getting any distinct monetary advantage to sign specifically with Denver in this scenario. 

2ndly) Denver would essentially have to work hand in hand with Atlanta throughout free agency which is unheard of.  Denver would have to target, pitch, negotiate and sign these other free agents, do the same for Sap and have Atlanta tag along the whole way believing that they can't do any better than Faried and Arthur as compensation for holding onto Sap's caphold.

Yea agreed. Though it would all occur during the Moratorium period and wouldn't be executed until later, so don't think we would necessarily have to work hand in hand. The biggest thing that would take the longest time would be getting Millsap to agree to it. I am sure he would want to do his due diligence on where he would want to go. Once he agrees, then both teams know how much cap space they would have and they go about doing their own free agent signings with that knowledge. It would essentially be the same effect if we were dealing with a team over the cap as well.

[sturt]

21 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I wouldn't be surprised if Chicago called for Millsap. 

SnT of their 1st and D. Wade for Millsap. 

Cut Wade in Jan.

You think Sap would do that deal? Don't see it myself.

[Guest]

http://www.slamonline.com/nba/hawks-paul-millsap-sign-and-trade/#rikj3qO2xxy4i6Mo.97

I know we already know but it was another report that just updated...I don't think anything new tho I'm reading it now..

[Guest]

Here's a good explanation for why SnT's are rare nowadays ..

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2017/05/why-nba-sign-and-trades-are-rare.html

Basically, if the team has the space to sign the player, there's incentive for the guy to simply sign there rather than weaken the team's roster.

And the team would have to kinda accommodate the trading team when they really don't have to.

A team like PHX would work IMHO because signing Sap outright causes a bit of a logjam in their frontcourt.  Same(ish) with DEN.  JMHO

[Guest]

The only non trash players we can get back are from the Suns and it's either Bender or Chriss...both PF's so is they get Millsap who is another PF, they won't need all three guys and perhaps we can get one of the two...I like them both.

 

Chances are slim as hell though..lol.

[MaceCase]

1 minute ago, Bankingitbig said:

Yea agreed. Though it would all occur during the Moratorium period and wouldn't be executed until later, so don't think we would necessarily have to work hand in hand. The biggest thing that would take the longest time would be getting Millsap to agree to it. I am sure he would want to do his due diligence on where he would want to go. Once he agrees, then both teams know how much cap space they would have and they go about doing their own free agent signings with that knowledge. It would essentially be the same effect if we were dealing with a team over the cap as well.

Therein lies the problem, you're trying to get 3 to tango in a sign and trade with the difference being you're talking of two teams with cap space and and an unrestricted free agent that would likely garner multiple offers.  So it's a timing issue negotiating all of these deals at once but more importantly it's a motivational issue as you're dealing with 3 parties with a large market.

-If Denver was over or close to the cap they may be motivated to part with better assets but as is may be more satisfied with Millsap alone with whatever their prime assets are. 

-If Atlanta was over or close to the cap they may be motivated to take on 42 million owed of Faried and Arthur as a means of saying "they got something" but as is may feel the cap space cleared would be better spent elsewhere.

Again, technicality and probability.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, kg01 said:

A team like PHX would work IMHO because signing Sap outright causes a bit of a logjam in their frontcourt.  Same(ish) with DEN.  JMHO

Great minds huh Gary? (Friends like these)..

 

Thats right dude...

 

Lebowski

[Johnnybravo4]

No use in tanking.  I haven't seen anyone come out of college in 5 years that has transformed a franchise.  Definitely no one in college now. This team can't survive a 76ers style rebuild.  They might as well move to Seattle at that point.

[Alex]

13 hours ago, JTB said:

Can we get Gary Harris from Denver? We do that and I will call the off season a success as well as drafting a good fitting big.

thats all i want and I'm happy 

He's a baby Klay Thompson.  There is no reason Harris can't average 16 PPG, shoot 40% from three, and play elite defense.  Paired with Dennis and Prince is a very nice young talented core.  

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Spud2Nique said:

Great minds huh Gary? (Friends like these)..

Thats right dude...

Lebowski

Le ---what?  Is that Lebron's white doppleganger?  Sorry, I don't get the reference. 

2 minutes ago, Johnnybravo4 said:

No use in tanking.  I haven't seen anyone come out of college in 5 years that has transformed a franchise.  Definitely no one in college now. This team can't survive a 76ers style rebuild.  They might as well move to Seattle at that point.

Only positive to tanking IMHO is to gain lotto picks to be traded for real players to organizations who get stars in their eyes about high picks.

1 minute ago, Alex said:

He's a baby Klay Thompson.  There is no reason Harris can't average 16 PPG, shoot 40% from three, and play elite defense.  Paired with Dennis and Prince is a very nice young talented core.  

Harris is too small.  Not that great ... MichSt fan

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Alex said:

He's a baby Klay Thompson.  There is no reason Harris can't average 16 PPG, shoot 40% from three, and play elite defense.  Paired with Dennis and Prince is a very nice young talented core.  

Disclaimer: @Alex loves himself a good Michigan St. product..

 

Not sure he's exactly Klay but I like his skill set. :-)

[Guest]

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

MichSt fan

Stop repeating me..

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Spud2Nique said:

Disclaimer: @Alex loves himself a good Michigan St. product..

Not sure he's exactly Klay but I like his skill set. :-)

I do give our guy @Alex credit for coming to his senses on Draymond tho.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Spud2Nique said:

Stop repeating me..

Ok well since @kg01 has my cheat sheet he stole off my counter this morning..I'll leave you guys for a bit...

 

Don't worry you're in good hands with @kg01...ok..you're in hands..:-|

[Alex]

1 minute ago, Spud2Nique said:

Disclaimer: @Alex loves himself a good Michigan St. product..

 

Not sure he's exactly Klay but I like his skill set. :-)

I think his skill set is very comparable to Klay.  Klay is a better pure shooter, but Harris edges him athletically.  Klay has size which gives him a plus on the defensive end, but Harris is much quicker which can help out with his lack of size compared to Klay.  Both are lethal off the ball on offense and both are tremendous defensively on ball and with ball denial.  I think Harris is a little more active with his hands as well.  

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Alex said:

I think Harris is a little more active with his hands as well.  

Kinda don't wanna know how you know this...personal encounter perhaps? ... andaaaahhhh

 

3....

2..

[ATLien_]

2 minutes ago, Alex said:

I think his skill set is very comparable to Klay.  Klay is a better pure shooter, but Harris edges him athletically.  Klay has size which gives him a plus on the defensive end, but Harris is much quicker which can help out with his lack of size compared to Klay.  Both are lethal off the ball on offense and both are tremendous defensively on ball and with ball denial.  I think Harris is a little more active with his hands as well.  

Would this be a good time to mention that ATLien_ said we should have drafted him the year we took Adreian Payne? Once again if the Hawks had drafted the players I wanted over the last 5 years they would be much better. Which is laughable because I don't watch college basketball and do all my scouting on draft express videos. Imagine what I could do with all the film and access the ass hats that run the Hawks have. Holler at me Steve Koonin, my pristine talent evaluation skills are documented in the annals of the Squawk. 

[sturt]

9 minutes ago, Johnnybravo4 said:

No use in tanking.  I haven't seen anyone come out of college in 5 years that has transformed a franchise.  Definitely no one in college now. This team can't survive a 76ers style rebuild.  They might as well move to Seattle at that point.

Wiggins was supposed to, of course.

Still waiting for that to work out.

In theory, there's something to be said for having high draft picks AND simultaneously, room to sign up max free agents.

But it is the classic theory versus real-world thing. It's never been that simple.

In PHI, they did the draft pick thing, but they ignored free agents, or maybe they didn't and/but free agents universally ignored them.

In MIA, in essence, they did for one off-season the free agent thing, but the team itself wasn't actually the prime mover... and they never actually had the chance because of the timing to gain any high draft picks out of the situation.

I think LAL is in the best position to actually execute the theory... having compiled what young talent they have, and now poised to attract George and maybe another talent. But they have the advantage of being one of the iconic brands in all of professional sports, and it's not an advantage we can replicate.

The "formula" (if you can call it that) that GSW executed was never a full re-build one. Rather, what they excelled at was that they DEVELOPED players into something better than they were anticipated to be during the draft. Even their elite player was not a top 5 lottery pick, but became arguably a #1.

This is what prompts me to be intensely interested in how Bud intends to renovate Hawks U, in light of the apparent new opening on his staff and the entirely-new positions in Erie. To me, the lesson is that you really can most help your championship hopes to place a tangible focus (and that largely means financial, of course) on ratcheting up the level of coaches on the staff.... player development, and not just lip service to player development.

[Plainview1981]

15 hours ago, wolvetigers said:

According to the Windhorst vid - the Hawks are fielding offers for SAP, (Kings, Suns, Nuggets,), not sure what value we will be getting back but it looks like our new GM is going for the complete rebuild. But unfortunately, we don't have high draft picks to draft a star player this year. 

 

This team is probably winning less than 20 games next year. Maybe less than 15.