Windhorst: Hawks fielding Sign & Trade Offers for SAP...>TOTAL REBUILD

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, Flight said:

The two they picked up have a lot of potential and they are both really athletic, Sap maybe but Love doesn't fit how athletic the rest of their team is right now. 

Sounds like Marvin Williams to me. 

[Flight]

9 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Sounds like Marvin Williams to me. 

Yeah neither is anything like Marvin. Chriss is like a young amare, Bender is porzingis esque with his range and size. 

[ATLSmith]

Sounds like the Hawks should have traded Sap before the deadline.

 

If Schlenk can actually pull off a decent sign and trade I'll be quite impressed.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Diesel said:

Here's what I have thought about with Sap...

Sap to Ceveland SNT Love to another team and we get picks.  (Possibly Phoenix). 

So all and all either direct or through Love.. Sap for #4 overall. 

Here's why...

I think Cleveland wants more physical in the post as well as a good midrange shooter.   While Sap is not as automatic as Love from downtown, Sap will get them more rebounds and playing with the King, he might be more automatic from downtown. 

Phoenix needs a big (PF).   This is a PGs draft... for the most part.   

 

A Cleveland SnT is problematic because they are miles over the cap and into Luxury Tax territory. Actually any SnT has it's own problems because of Base Year Compensation  (BYE) and bird rights.

See below:

Quote

There’s one scenario in which a sign-and-trade may genuinely make sense — if a free agent wants to join a team without cap room. However, even that scenario can’t necessarily be handled like a normal trade, since the Base Year Compensation (BYC) rule often applies.

The BYC rule applies to a specific circumstance. If a player is being signed-and-traded via Early Bird or Bird rights by a team above the salary cap, gets a raise of at least 20%, and his salary is worth more than the minimum, his cap figure for salary-matching purposes will be affected. For the team acquiring him, his full salary would apply in a trade. For the team trading him, he would count for his previous salary or 50% of his new salary, whichever is greater.

Let’s use Lowry as an example one more time, and assume he signs a full max deal with a starting salary of about $35MM. Since he would fit the BYC criteria, Lowry would count for $35MM for salary-matching purposes for his new team in a sign-and-trade, but would only count for $17.5MM from the Raptors’ perspective.

That would make it very difficult for the two teams to meet the salary-matching rules in a trade — if Lowry’s new team is above the cap, that team would have to send out about $28MM in salary to make a deal work from its end, which is much more salary than Lowry’s outgoing $17.5MM cap figure would allow Toronto to take on.

 

[marco102]

5 hours ago, NBASupes said:

LeBron is a pretty massive gap tho. That's like saying, we are as good as the Patriots but they have Tom Brady. Well, he's a GOAT, if you have him, you will be great. 

Don't you dare @NBASupes!  That great was getting his ass handed to him by Matt Ryan and our Falcons until they ran out of gas!  You can make a lot of analogies, but please leave anything Boston related and its greatness out!  I'M STILL NOT OVER THE SUPERBOWL!

[Diesel]

4 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

A Cleveland SnT is problematic because they are miles over the cap and into Luxury Tax territory. Actually any SnT has it's own problems because of Base Year Compensation  (BYE) and bird rights.

See below:

 

it used to be that teams that were over the cap had to do SNTs in order to get different players.  I don't understand this new stuff. 

[NBASupes]

22 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Don't you dare @NBASupes!  That great was getting his ass handed to him by Matt Ryan and our Falcons until they ran out of gas!  You can make a lot of analogies, but please leave anything Boston related and its greatness out!  I'M STILL NOT OVER THE SUPERBOWL!

Tom still won and was the SB MVP. At the end of the day, he's a GOAT of his sport. Matt Ryan is pretty good but he needs some rings

Edited June 21, 2017 by NBASupes

[Diesel]

42 minutes ago, Flight said:

Yeah neither is anything like Marvin. Chriss is like a young amare, Bender is porzingis esque with his range and size. 

Quote

The Suns drafted Dragan Bender with the knowledge and expectation  that he was going to be a bit of a project, understanding fully that his selection was for the long term and not the short. But then Dragan generally underwhelmed in his rookie season, and following an injury in February he was physically unable to take advantage of the newfound minutes that became available with the resting and trading of veteran players.

Still sounds like Marvin.  Potential is nothing until it's realized. 

 

[Guest]

34 minutes ago, Diesel said:

it used to be that teams that were over the cap had to do SNTs in order to get different players.  I don't understand this new stuff. 

Yeah, the new CBA drastically changed the whole SnT thing.  It's become a rarity now.  I think the only one in the last 2 years was DellavaDLeague signing with MIL last year.

And you're right on the PHX young bigs.  Neither would preclude them from being interested in emoLove.  I'm pretty sure their interest in Love is already 'out there' in the rumor mill, in fact.

[Buzzard]

I agree with the OP and do think we are going into a rebuild. Our playoff streak will end this season. If Schlkenk sees anyone as untradeable it is Dennis, Prince, and maybe Hardaway Jr if we resign him.

I see the rest as garbage in and garbage out. And do not take this literally as I am not calling any player garbage. It is just a way of saying the rest of this team is expendable and that core three, if they are seen that way, will be taking us to lottery land.

[hazer]

8 hours ago, Flight said:

 

The thing about it is everyone is trying to win, 10 straight years in the playoffs is not something to use as a negative feat. Being able to maintain that type of success is incredible in sports. Just because you're not afraid to put a losing group of players on the court doesn't mean you have it all figured out.

There's a LOT more teams that have a lot more losing seasons in this past ten years and have nothing to show for it but young players and not even all of them are good ones. Anyone can have a fire sale with their team and say the future will be better because of it. So you'll have to forgive me for being less than impressed with this as a beginning to our new look.

There are a lot more teams that don't have a GM that was a big part of putting together the current GSW dynasty and don't have a COTY like Bud either. You can continue to not acknowledge this aspect all you like..

[sturt]

It can't be said enough... the likelihood of this being a thing is just awfully remote.

You have to have

(a) a team prepared to give Sap the max (because otherwise, economic self-interest says he's predisposed to preferring to take his services to the auction block) because they have a crying need at the 4,

(b) a team that Sap would prohibitively want to go to (again, because otherwise, he's predisposed to preferring the auction block), ostensibly because they're arguably a contender, and

(c) a team that would be over the cap, and so, unable to make the deal within free agency without some major salary dumps.

There's only one team that I'm seeing out there that I see conceivably could check all the boxes...

OKC.

[Admin]

4 minutes ago, sturt said:

It can't be said enough... the likelihood of this being a thing is just awfully remote.

You have to have

(a) a team prepared to give Sap the max (because otherwise, economic self-interest says he's predisposed to preferring to take his services to the auction block) because they have a crying need at the 4,

(b) a team that Sap would prohibitively want to go to (again, because otherwise, he's predisposed to preferring the auction block), ostensibly because they're arguably a contender, and

(c) a team that would be over the cap, and so, unable to make the deal within free agency without some major salary dumps.

There's only one team that I'm seeing out there that I see conceivably could check all the boxes...

OKC.

How do you feel about a 3way deal involving the Jazz landing Millsap and the Celtics landing Hayward? The Hawks would get expiring contracts and future draft picks while the C's get their main FA target and Sap goes back to a city and coach he's comfortable with who could slot him at 3-4 and they'd have a pretty darn good team out west. 

I have no idea if a 3way snt like that is even possible but I would bet there's a way to pull it off. 

[AHF]

Don't want to get into Brady debate but he is neither the GOAT nor comparable in impact to LeBron.  Put him on a shitty team with a subpar coach and watch him eating popcorn while he watches the playoffs on TV.   Just not a good comparison given the differences in the sports.

On the S&T, there is much less incentive for those deals anymore but teams that lack cap room for a player and that the player would otherwise sign with can get a deal done.  People should not remotely expect lottery picks or anything like that anymore, though.

[Bankingitbig]

Couldn't a team like Denver us the SnT as a way to use their cap space for other free agents? Not 100% on the mechanics of it all. But I believe they could use some cap space to go out and sign free agents that they wouldn't have room to get if they immediately offered the max to Millsap. Then later do the SnT with us by sending salary away such as Faried and Arthur, along with picks as incentives.

[sturt]

@Dolfan23, I don't see Sap being prepared to forego having his own choice of suitors in free agency for anything less than a roster poised to contend. And in the scenario you envision, a Utah without Hayward seems to be treading water at best in obtaining his services. I'd be more inclined to think a straight-up deal with BOS could gel... Sap being an upgrade over Amir Johnson, whose $12m salary would get you about half-way to what's needed to make the trade.

I have to say, I may have been too quick to rule out BOS.

(Can't say I'm eager to imagine something that helps that team of all teams.)

Here's the thing with SnT... it's already like a 3-way trade in its essence because 3 different parties have to be satisfied that they're getting a good deal--team x, team y and then the player himself.

Start messing with 3-way SnT, and it's basically the same as a conventional 4-way trade--which almost never happens. of course.

[hawkman]

17 minutes ago, AHF said:

Don't want to get into Brady debate but he is neither the GOAT nor comparable in impact to LeBron.  Put him on a shitty team with a subpar coach and watch him eating popcorn while he watches the playoffs on TV.   Just not a good comparison given the differences in the sports.

On the S&T, there is much less incentive for those deals anymore but teams that lack cap room for a player and that the player would otherwise sign with can get a deal done.  People should not remotely expect lottery picks or anything like that anymore, though.

Liked for the paragraph in bold. SCREW TOM BRADY!

[NBASupes]

7 minutes ago, Bankingitbig said:

Couldn't a team like Denver us the SnT as a way to use their cap space for other free agents? Not 100% on the mechanics of it all. But I believe they could use some cap space to go out and sign free agents that they wouldn't have room to get if they immediately offered the max to Millsap. Then later do the SnT with us by sending salary away such as Faried and Arthur, along with picks as incentives.

They could but being open to SnT could be something attractive to team's over the cap like Houston, OKC, Chicago, etc and you never know what other deals these teams want to make

[Bankingitbig]

7 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

They could but being open to SnT could be something attractive to team's over the cap like Houston, OKC, Chicago, etc and you never know what other deals these teams want to make

Yea definitely. Was just trying to say that a SnT can serve as a purpose for teams under the cap with max room as well.

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, Bankingitbig said:

Yea definitely. Was just trying to say that a SnT can serve as a purpose for teams under the cap with max room as well.

I wouldn't be surprised if Chicago called for Millsap. 

SnT of their 1st and D. Wade for Millsap. 

Cut Wade in Jan.