Why did John Collins fall in the draft?

[Wurider05]

He seems like a solid player from what we have seen so far.  I know that its only summer league but he does a lot of the small things.  I remember when Josh fell in the draft and they reported that it was due to his work ethic and attitude. Turns out that was on the spot. 

[CP61]

Shooting. The only other power forwards taken before him were shooters. 

[noble]

Defense and shooting.

[aali34]

What he did in college is a bit different than what he is doing now. At Wake Forest a majority of his points came from posting up. Scouts and NBA teams were questionable about whether or not he could play the power forward position, his offensive awareness, whether he could defend at an NBA level, and as stated earlier shooting.

Right now he's making himself look like lottery pick and proving other teams wrong. His activity in the pick and roll is amazing, not just popping or rolling hard to the basket, but also creating space and making plays for others. His defense is better than most thought but could still stand too improve. The encouraging part is that its totally fixable since its more about fundamentals and technique for him than it is about physical disadvantages like speed, size, and athleticism( ex - Isiah Thomas, Kevin Love).

As for shooting, he seems to have a great mid-range shot and could possibly extend it out to three, but I would pull the brakes on it for now during his rookie season.

 

[Watchman]

28 minutes ago, Wurider05 said:

He seems like a solid player from what we have seen so far.  I know that its only summer league but he does a lot of the small things.  I remember when Josh fell in the draft and they reported that it was due to his work ethic and attitude. Turns out that was on the spot. 

So far so good.  I know it's only summer league, but it looks like he could start in the NBA right now.

[Sothron]

His defense, lack of good wingspan for his size, IIRC he has a pretty short wing span for his size, and not being an outside shooter. If this was 2007 he'd be a top ten lottery pick.

I think we got a steal. I said so when we drafted him. My main concern is his defense but so far in SL it looks improved. If you want to see how bad his defense was go watch WF film. I know someone on here said his college coach told him not to risk fouls because he was their main offense but that's just silly.

[CP61]

5 minutes ago, Sothron said:

His defense, lack of good wingspan for his size, IIRC he has a pretty short wing span for his size, and not being an outside shooter. If this was 2007 he'd be a top ten lottery pick.

I think we got a steal. I said so when we drafted him. My main concern is his defense but so far in SL it looks improved. If you want to see how bad his defense was go watch WF film. I know someone on here said his college coach told him not to risk fouls because he was their main offense but that's just silly.

Both he and Schlenk said that in regards to his bad defense in college. 

[Peoriabird]

I love the phrase "It's only Summer league"... Don't care whether it's summer league or church league, I know what a player when I see one and this dude is a player. Most impressed with his maturity and self discipline.  More mature than Price is now at 19. Taking very few bad shots and is taking care of the basketball.

[BrazilianHawk]

It's only Summer League.

[Sothron]

39 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

The love the phrase "It's only Summer league"... Don't care whether it's summer league or church league, I know what a player when I see one and this dude is a player. Most impressed with his maturity and self discipline.  More mature than Price is now at 19. Taking very few bad shots and is taking care of the basketball.

I agree with you (shocking, eh?) that I really like Collins but this is still summer league. Dion Glover looked like a god in SL and we know how that translated to real games.

[DrReality]

6 minutes ago, Sothron said:

I agree with you (shocking, eh?) that I really like Collins but this is still summer league. Dion Glover looked like a god in SL and we know how that translated to real games.

Dion Glover.......there's a name that will rain on your parade. 

[Peoriabird]

34 minutes ago, Sothron said:

I agree with you (shocking, eh?) that I really like Collins but this is still summer league. Dion Glover looked like a god in SL and we know how that translated to real games.

Y'all got to let that Dion Glover sh-t go. Dion looked nothing like Collins in summer league.  I don't even think Dion shot a high percentage and plus wasn't that summer like his 3rd summer league and he was 23??? Lol, I know y'all want to be negative about this team forever but stop the ridiculous comparisons

[Sothron]

4 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Y'all got to let that Dion Glover sh-t go. Dion looked nothing like Collins in summer league.  I don't even thing Dion shot a high percentage and plus wasn't that summer like his 3rd summer league and he was 23??? Lol, I know y'all want to be negative about this team forever but stop the ridiculous comparisons

Dion is like the living example forever about not taking SL too seriously. He played in several SLs and was amazing in them.

I share your enthusiasm about Collins. Really, I do. I want the kid to start from day one because I do think he could be special. I just don't want to assume his greatness based solely off SL play tho.

[Sothron]

1 hour ago, CP61 said:

Both he and Schlenk said that in regards to his bad defense in college. 

Ok, I knew someone had posted that somewhere back around the draft.

[AHF]

9 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Y'all got to let that Dion Glover sh-t go. Dion looked nothing like Collins in summer league.  I don't even thing Dion shot a high percentage and plus wasn't that summer like his 3rd summer league and he was 23??? Lol, I know y'all want to be negative about this team forever but stop the ridiculous comparisons

Dion is not comparable.  Dion is one of dozens of examples of players who look great in summer action and can't hack it in the league.  

Summer league is not a good basis for anything.  It is a step below playing against college teams because they at least play D and play as a team unlike 99.9% of summer action.

[Dejay]

3 minutes ago, Sothron said:

Dion is like the living example forever about not taking SL too seriously. He played in several SLs and was amazing in them.

I share your enthusiasm about Collins. Really, I do. I want the kid to start from day one because I do think he could be special. I just don't want to assume his greatness based solely off SL play tho.

Dion Glover is the sole reason I pay next to no attention to summer league games other than checking to see if anyone of worth was injured. He was an effin summer league MVP who looked like Tracy McGrady when playing against a bunch of scrubs who are probably working bars in Midtown somewhere today. I remember the hype about him looking like he finally learned how to actually dribble and shoot a basketball and was one of several folks warning those not to buy in. We all painfully saw how well that worked out.

I have my doubts on Collins being the next Glover but I'll temper any enthusiasm I have for when he plays against real players...

[Dejay]

28 minutes ago, DrReality said:

Dion Glover.......there's a name that will rain on your parade. 

Like an effin funnel cloud about to touch down in the front yard of your house...

[thecampster]

The drool over Collins right now is that he is making NBA type plays in a pick up type environment. As AALI34 said,

1 hour ago, aali34 said:

His activity in the pick and roll is amazing, not just popping or rolling hard to the basket, but also creating space and making plays for others. His defense is better than most thought but could still stand too improve.

 

That's it right there. His BBIQ right now seems light years ahead of a typical draft pick. A couple times you've seen him leak out before a play is over because he's seeing his fast break opportunity develop before it does.  A number of times you see him get an entry pass and stop, take a dribble and let the defender fly by then go up for an easy dunk.  The play where he was under the basket under Markannen and used his body and footwork to turn nothing into a 2 hand flush. The bad entry pass that he turned into a reverse dunk. These are all signs of body control and awareness. None of which are reliance on just athleticism.  The real reason that he dropped to 19 is that 18 other teams (and me by the way) were wrong.

[Peoriabird]

Y'all are not getting it...there is no comparison between Dion and a 19 year that has displayed a lot of maturity in his 1st 3 summer league games. He is not some ball hog launching a bunch of shots to look good. Dude is doing all of the dirty work plus shooting at a high percentage and isn't turning the ball over like most rookies. If summer league was so easy, why is Taurian Prince stinking up the jount? But y'all keep pretending that you don't see what I see.

[hazer]

Eye test: he looks like a smart man out there among dumb boys. Seems like it's his second or 3rd year in Summer League, playing against kids right outta high school.