The FBI Probe into College Basketball: How will it potentially effect the Hawks/NBA?

[KB21]

I'm sure all of you have seen that the FBI is probing several college basketball teams, their connection with shoe companies, and even AAU leagues due to bribery.  I've been reading several stories on this today, and one of the stories I read mentioned that this could very well be the last domino that ends the one and done rule the NBA has.  It could very well happen that high school seniors will once again be eligible to be drafted after all of this comes to a head.

How will this effect Atlanta and the rest of the NBA?  One thing I'm very curious about is the players who are connected to the probe who are freshmen this year and whether they will be eligible to play at all.  There is a rumor that Collin Sexton's recruitment is part of the probe, as the FBI will reportedly investigate Alabama's basketball program.   The feds are investigating Nike's EYBL, which Collin Sexton along with DeAndre Ayton, Marvin Bagley, and Michael Porter Jr were all a part of.  What happens if the majority of the "hyped up" prospects being projected at the top of this draft ends up not being eligible this year because of all of this?  Does their lack of play in college, if that is the case, effect their draft status?  Will this make teams focus more on experienced players like Miles Bridges at the top of the draft?

 

[AHF]

I think it would hurt their draft status unless they get into a good environment and show some success (such as jumping to a decent European league).  I don't think it will cripple them because almost every GM will still pass on a more experienced guy they view as a 6th man if they think a potential All-Star is out there.

[capstone21]

I hate the one and done as I also don't like the high school ... I would love for it to go back to junior year you can come out

[AHF]

15 hours ago, capstone21 said:

I hate the one and done as I also don't like the high school ... I would love for it to go back to junior year you can come out

As a fan of the league, I would love to see that too.  

[capstone21]

18 minutes ago, AHF said:

As a fan of the league, I would love to see that too.  

They come out more ready to contribute right away instead of it all being potential and they are more mature / ready to handle the transition ... its also much much better for college basketball ... 

[AHF]

9 minutes ago, capstone21 said:

They come out more ready to contribute right away instead of it all being potential and they are more mature / ready to handle the transition ... its also much much better for college basketball ... 

And lets teams draft players who are already household names.  

It also helps older players.  There are a finite number of slots in the NBA and a certain amount teams are going to spend.  That will be basically unchanged regardless of what the age of entry is into the league so it is a matter of whether you are paying a vet or a rookie under that system.  The players in aggregate will still get paid the same total amount of money.

[Lurker]

Looks like, soon enough, you're going to get your wish of seeing potential pro basketball players get tons of growing and developing time in college. I bet this ends one and done and does NOT bring back the players can go straight from high school rule.

[KB21]

I'm hopeful that this will either end or drastically change AAU basketball as well.

[AHF]

1 hour ago, Lurker said:

Looks like, soon enough, you're going to get your wish of seeing potential pro basketball players get tons of growing and developing time in college. I bet this ends one and done and does NOT bring back the players can go straight from high school rule.

I'm not betting on it but we'll see.  In some ways, a two and done or three and done rule wouldn't make things any better for colleges.  Getting a guy like Hakeem is even more valuable then so the incentive to funnel money to make it happens is higher if you can get 2 or 3 years out of him than if you only get 1 year.  

The college system is inevitably going to be corrupt as long as the schools are making literally billions of dollars off of it.  You don't see these issues at the Division 3 level because the money isn't there for the coaches or the schools.  When you put 7 figure earning potential on the line for coaches and much more than that on the line for schools and don't compensate the players with anything close to what would be their fair market value, you will inevitably end up with a black market sort of situation where people are willing to "pay" more than the scholarship and associated perks that go to athletes legally under the system -- particularly since college sports are more about recruiting than they are about Xs and Os.

[DrReality]

Sweeping changes are inevitable cuz NCAA is a paper tiger. 

[Lurker]

9 hours ago, AHF said:

I'm not betting on it but we'll see.  In some ways, a two and done or three and done rule wouldn't make things any better for colleges.  Getting a guy like Hakeem is even more valuable then so the incentive to funnel money to make it happens is higher if you can get 2 or 3 years out of him than if you only get 1 year.  

The college system is inevitably going to be corrupt as long as the schools are making literally billions of dollars off of it.  You don't see these issues at the Division 3 level because the money isn't there for the coaches or the schools.  When you put 7 figure earning potential on the line for coaches and much more than that on the line for schools and don't compensate the players with anything close to what would be their fair market value, you will inevitably end up with a black market sort of situation where people are willing to "pay" more than the scholarship and associated perks that go to athletes legally under the system -- particularly since college sports are more about recruiting than they are about Xs and Os.

Yep, when we actually talk about what's at hand, stuff like what the FBI is investigating is going to continue whether there is 1 and done or whether this goes back to being like college football (which in all honesty might be just as bad).

Your best choice might be to establish this (which will effectively kill not just AAU/shoe leagues but college basketball itself, but still):

Summary: This is a mix of the baseball and soccer rules in America, with one twist.

The college basketball rule goes back to being 3 and done.
Minor league basketball teams are established (the G league might be the start of the development of this). If a player doesn't want to, they don't have to go to college but the catch is...

A mandatory rule is created where players are not allowed to play at the top level in basketball for at least 2 years. They MUST be kept at the minor league level. They get paid though, just like they probably are getting paid in college.

None of this is happening though so....lmao.

[lethalweapon3]

Y'all knew the Atlanta Hawks had to find their way into this story somehow, didn't ya?

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/20834050/the-story-how-fbi-brought-words-corruption

Quote

Sometime during the fall of 2016, a mutual friend introduced Blazer to Rashan Michel, a former NBA and Southeastern Conference referee. After leaving his NBA referee role in 2001, Michel opened Thompson Bespoke Clothiers in Atlanta, which sold high-end, custom-tailored suits. His clients included NFL players such as Todd Gurley, Teddy Bridgewater, Sammy Watkins and Mike Evans, among others. In 2014, Michel designed the suits worn by the top seven picks in the NFL draft, according to his social media account.

Quote

 

After the mutual friend introduced Michel to Blazer, Michel told Blazer -- in a series of phone calls in the fall of 2016 -- that Auburn assistant coach Chuck Person needed money. "In exchange for such money, Person would agree to steer student-athletes to [Auburn's] basketball team to retain [Blazer's] financial advisory and business management services," according to the complaint.

Person, who is Auburn's all-time leading scorer and helped the Tigers reach three straight NCAA tournaments, was the No. 4 pick of the Indiana Pacers in the 1986 NBA draft. He was the 1987 NBA Rookie of the Year and played for five teams from 1986 to 2000, earning more than $23 million in salary. A former assistant in the NBA and Korea, Person joined head coach Bruce Pearl's staff at Auburn in 2014. Person was promoted to associate head coach the next season.

During a telephone call between Michel and Blazer on Sept. 8, 2016, according to the complaint, Michel said he had access to team locker rooms and players, and also boasted about being able to connect Blazer with other coaches. "The good thing about it is," Michel said, "I got all the college coaches right now because, guess what, I'm the one that's with them. I make all their suits.

"The [expletive] basketball guys [get] way more money than these [expletive] football guys," Michel told Blazer. "We can get us [expletive] 10 basketball players in the next five years and we gonna ... have to sit back and do absolutely nothing."

Michel informed Blazer that Person needed a $60,000 loan, and that Auburn was going to have "three or four pros come out a year. [He's] got one or two of them that's gonna be pretty high draft picks." Michel said Person would pay back the money over a 24-month period. During later conversations, Blazer and Michel discussed the loan being forgiven if Person delivered players.

On Nov. 29, 2016, Person and Michel met with Blazer at a restaurant near Auburn's campus. Blazer was wearing a miniature video camera and recording device, and FBI agents monitored the meeting, according to the complaint. During the meeting, Person agreed to accept $50,000 in bribe payments from Blazer.

According to the complaint, Michel explained that Person would receive $5,000 in cash that day and three additional payments of $15,000. Person signed a promissory note and then asked if he could receive $10,000 up front. Blazer agreed to wire him an additional $5,000. Michel sent Blazer the information needed to wire money to Person's bank account, and the money was transferred the next day.

On Dec. 12, Person, Michel and Blazer met with an unidentified Auburn player at a Manhattan hotel room. The Tigers were in New York to play Boston College in the Under Armour Reunion at Madison Square Garden. The meeting was again videotaped by Blazer, and Blazer told the player that he wanted to "make sure you [have] a face to put with the voice and the name or whatever, so ya know, so when we do get together ... you're good with everything."

The player told Blazer that he was good with whatever arrangement Person was comfortable with. "I trust him 100 percent," the player said. During the Dec. 12 meeting, Blazer gave Person approximately $15,000 in cash.

 

Quote

 

During a telephone call with Blazer, Person said he was giving Michel a portion of the bribes, but complained that Michel was trying to "double dip." But that's what Person tried to do when he arranged for an unidentified financial adviser in Alabama to meet with a second unnamed Auburn player. The meeting occurred at Person's house in January, and the FBI believed that he "initially intended for the [advisor] and [Blazer] to jointly represent Player-2, so that Person could receive money from both individuals."

When the second adviser told Person that he didn't want to make the proposed payments, Person advised the second player's mother that she should go only with Blazer. She thanked him for "putting the right people around us."

On Jan. 5, Michel met with Blazer at a restaurant in Atlanta and discussed a proposal in which Blazer would pay Michel on a monthly basis to connect Blazer with other coaches who were willing to accept bribes. Blazer paid Michel tens of thousands of dollars from January 2017 to about September, according to the FBI, and Michel helped facilitate the payment of $25,000 to an unidentified staff member of another school. The staff member received $5,000 during an initial meeting and an additional $20,000 in later meetings in New York and Atlanta.

The FBI said Person received a total of $91,500 from Blazer, and Person claimed to have given approximately $11,000 to the first player's mother and $7,500 to the second player's mother. Michel received $49,000 for arranging the meetings with coaches and players' parents.

Person was arrested Tuesday morning and was released on $25,000 bond. Michel was arrested in Charlotte on Tuesday and appeared in front of U.S. Magistrate Court Judge David Keesler, who ordered him to appear in New York in two weeks.

 

 ... "Suits me!"

~lw3

[bleachkit]

Just allow schools and shoe companies to pay them what they are worth. I can think of no other industry where there is such blatant collusion. Quite frankly I think schools that are paying them under the table are doing the right thing.

[ATLien_]

4 hours ago, bleachkit said:

Just allow schools and shoe companies to pay them what they are worth. I can think of no other industry where there is such blatant collusion. Quite frankly I think schools that are paying them under the table are doing the right thing.

I would be ok with this but do realize this will create a situation where only the biggest schools with the most money get the players. If you think disparity is bad now just wait. I'm a free market guy,  but realize this would change college athletics into something completely different. I could see a large chunk of schools getting out of sports completely because they are barely breaking even now. There are only 24 out of 231 division I schools that make more than 100 million annually on sports. 

[KB21]

16 hours ago, bleachkit said:

Just allow schools and shoe companies to pay them what they are worth. I can think of no other industry where there is such blatant collusion. Quite frankly I think schools that are paying them under the table are doing the right thing.

Not hardly.  

These players are getting their education, room and board, books, and food paid for tax free.  If you start paying them, then you take away scholarship money and have them file 1099 forms for tax purposes.  They pay for their tuition, room and board, books, and food out of their "salary".  

It gets a little old to hear about how these players should be getting paid market value when they are getting their education paid for, while at the same time baseball players do not get full rides.

[cam1218]

College basketball is a mess unless you are one of the teams landing those 5 star recruits every single year. I want to see a rule like college baseball has. Either you go pro as a HS senior or you play three years at the school you commit to play for.

[cam1218]

2 hours ago, KB21 said:

Not hardly.  

These players are getting their education, room and board, books, and food paid for tax free.  If you start paying them, then you take away scholarship money and have them file 1099 forms for tax purposes.  They pay for their tuition, room and board, books, and food out of their "salary".  

It gets a little old to hear about how these players should be getting paid market value when they are getting their education paid for, while at the same time baseball players do not get full rides.

Adding on to this, the original point of being a student athlete was free education. I don't think they take advantage of this, they just go to a school that seems fun. The whole education part has been lost over the years. 

I just posted this, but I think players should have a chance to go pro (in any sport) as a HS senior or commit to play 3 years at the college level. That way they have a choice to make money if they want to. 

[MaceCase]

Can't speak about "free education" when many of these athletes are pushed towards remedial courses and graded on a separate scale from other students by their schools in order to keep them eligible for games that generate millions.  

Athletic scholarships aren't some philanthropic endeavor as the "education" itself is often a tertiary concern at many of these schools.  I won't even get into the arbitrary nature that schools price their tuition,  I don't believe that con of an athlete being off the hook for a ~40k bill.  "Cost of education" is an odd term when a sociology major and a business major are on the hook for the same bill with vastly different prospects for monetary gain in their future.

[AHF]

I'm lmao at people thinking D1 colleges are bringing their basketball and football players in to further their education.  They do not give the kids time to focus on a real academic curriculum and push them to take the bare minimum in coursework to keep themselves eligible.  They will absolutely place athletes into schools where they cannot handle the coursework because the college doesn't give a crap if the athlete is a real student or not as long as they can play.  

The colleges are focused on the millions that these players bring in by playing and wouldn't even have them attend class if it wasn't required.  Or if they can go UNC style.

[Lurker]

16 hours ago, cam1218 said:

College basketball is a mess unless you are one of the teams landing those 5 star recruits every single year. I want to see a rule like college baseball has. Either you go pro as a HS senior or you play three years at the school you commit to play for.

You need an established minor league for this to work however. Basketball is not baseball like, but it's not a sport in which you can just play immediately unless you are LeBron James. You need developmental time. 

College sports, especially the power 5 ones, do you really think in the major ones, players are actually coming for an education? I've looked at UGA's obvious pro football prospects "major" and I have said "They are not here for school at all" before. That's just the way it goes and in football you can't really have a minor league or straight to the league rule, the kids need to grow into men or they would be destroyed by the pros.

Edited October 1, 2017 by Lurker