Hawksquawk is back up, Welcome to the Bagley Zone

[EazyRoc]

30 minutes ago, Sothron said:

Young has the highest bust potential out of all of these names. I just don't see him doing anything in the NBA in terms of being drafted in the top 3. When he matched up with better athletes at college he was exposed. I would take him at #19.

That sounds a whole lot like Doncic.

[Sothron]

2 minutes ago, EazyRoc said:

That sounds a whole lot like Doncic.

That...sounds nothing like him? 19 year old competing in the second best league in the world and he wins  a title as well as MVP?

[EazyRoc]

7 minutes ago, Sothron said:

That...sounds nothing like him? 19 year old competing in the second best league in the world and he wins  a title as well as MVP?

Curious. How many Spanish league MVPs actually amount to anything in the NBA ?

Just now, EazyRoc said:

Curious. How many Spanish league MVPs actually amount to anything in the NBA ?

Not to mention the inferior athletes he still can’t manage to beat off the dribble. The guy is all hype and no substance. 

[Blunt91]

Why didn't Bagley do any measurements at the combine?  I was curious to see what his actual stats are as far as height and wingspan.  I also can't find any videos of him doing interviews Mo Bamba and Jaren Jackson did interviews on TV  and both of them did pretty well in my opinion.

   

[bleachkit]

4 minutes ago, Blunt91 said:

Why didn't Bagley do any measurements at the combine?  I was curious to see what his actual stats are as far as height and wingspan.  I also can't find any videos of him doing interviews Mo Bamba and Jaren Jackson did interviews on TV  and both of them did pretty well in my opinion.

   

Well he's not 6'11. He's probably 6'9 at most. Listed heights are always wrong. Sometimes absurdly wrong. There have been players who have been literally 3, even 4 inches shorter than listed height. It's really annoying. All players should be required to get an exact measurement by a third party, and have that used as their official height. Why are they allowed to out right lie about heights?

[GameTime]

2 hours ago, capstone21 said:

I would be extremely disappointed if we draft Young .... he is the last guy I want us to take ... I just think he will be overmatched in the nba ... he is small with short arms, terrible defender, not very athletic and he was kind of a chucker in college.  His assists are like Westbrook... not so much getting teammates involved but passing out instead of a drive or chuck ... he is a bench guy in this league and I would rather Sexton or the Kentucky point guard if we are going that route

Trae Young was extremely efficient in college (59% TS%), was the best passer in college basketball. He created more easy baskets in CBB than anyone in the country.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6i8DfTnrMFk

The funny thing is Sexton's passes were more Westbrooky than Young (passes more like Nash).

[AHF]

51 minutes ago, EazyRoc said:

Curious. How many Spanish league MVPs actually amount to anything in the NBA ?

Not to mention the inferior athletes he still can’t manage to beat off the dribble. The guy is all hype and no substance. 

He killed against actual NBA players in international competition.  Doubt all you like but objectively for production and level of competition the guy is as qualified as anyone his age has been.

[EazyRoc]

25 minutes ago, AHF said:

He killed against actual NBA players in international competition.  Doubt all you like but objectively for production and level of competition the guy is as qualified as anyone his age has been.

Again, his accomplishments are incredible. I can’t take that away from him. He’s not going to be that kind of player in the NBA. Dude can’t beat the guy in front of him consistently without a screen (or two). Even then, he doesn’t have the quickness/speed to turn that screen into a good drive where he can really take advantage of his skills. NBADraft.net gave a really good comparison to Hedo Turkoglu. I see a little bit of late-Hawk Joe Johnson. Except he’s a terrible defender as well. He’d be a good pick in the 10-15 range, but this guy will not be that good in the NBA. Just watch any video (preferably highlights, his best moments) in this context. I was high on him a few months ago, but I realized that he wasn’t really beating the guy in front of him and getting in the lane. Just rewatch whatever tape available. It really opened my eyes.

[davis171]

1 hour ago, EazyRoc said:

Again, his accomplishments are incredible. I can’t take that away from him. He’s not going to be that kind of player in the NBA. Dude can’t beat the guy in front of him consistently without a screen (or two). Even then, he doesn’t have the quickness/speed to turn that screen into a good drive where he can really take advantage of his skills. NBADraft.net gave a really good comparison to Hedo Turkoglu. I see a little bit of late-Hawk Joe Johnson. Except he’s a terrible defender as well. He’d be a good pick in the 10-15 range, but this guy will not be that good in the NBA. Just watch any video (preferably highlights, his best moments) in this context. I was high on him a few months ago, but I realized that he wasn’t really beating the guy in front of him and getting in the lane. Just rewatch whatever tape available. It really opened my eyes.

how often do you see James Harden beat his man in front of him using speed and quickness... I think he is every bit the athlete Harden is. Not saying he will ever be as good as Harden but a lite version is what I see in Doncic

[TheNorthCydeRises]

3 minutes ago, davis171 said:

how often do you see James Harden beat his man in front of him using speed and quickness... I think he is every bit the athlete Harden is. Not saying he will ever be as good as Harden but a lite version is what I see in Doncic

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rMeNBCWqLY

 

[davis171]

24 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rMeNBCWqLY

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-_3IP_2YPY

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

5 minutes ago, davis171 said:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-_3IP_2YPY

 

So where do you see James Harden in that video?  You made an athletic comparison with Doncic and Harden, and I just don't see it.   I'll agree with EazyRoc in that Doncic's game is more Joe Johnson like than James Harden.  That's not a bad thing either.

[bleachkit]

I admit Doncic does not look especially awe inspiring in his highlights, but I trust in his BBIQ and feel for the game. 

[frosgrim]

Comparing a Rockets version of Harden to a 19 year old is a little bit of a mismatch. But, yes, Harden does have more moves in his toolkit than Donic right now. However, Harden developed those playing a ton of 1:1 growing up and throughout his NBA career.  I find it silly to expect any of these prospects to have moves compared to an MVP candidate in his prime years. If I wasn't in transit back to the US and on crappy internet, I'd try to find video of Harden in HS or his first year of college. That's the correct comparison. 

That said, I do agree that Donic doesn't have great 1:1 moves to get to the bucket. But it seems he's trying to actually get space for a 3 pointer v. an actual drive. NBA couching should fix that. Donic also needs to get more defensive awareness, just like Bagley. In all the videos posted, they both seem to have problems understanding how to guard the PNR/PNP.  That, I think, can be fixed with good couching and desire. 

To me, all the guys in the top 3 and top 10 have problems that make you pause. I think instead of being completely focused on what they can't do, see what they can do and how that could be used as a base for fixing those problems. This isn't to say, don't look at the problems, but see what they are and what it would take to fix it. For me, its about how far does a 19 year old have to go to be a competent NBAer.  Donic and Bagley seem to have the base skills, build, and desire to be very good NBAers.  All-star plus for them is a question, but I'd take either of those guys over the rest of the bunch. 

[High5]

I have my concerns about Doncic, but just because he's not notably athletic a lot of people talk about him like he's a finished product. Quickness and explosiveness can be improved. Handles can be improved. Spacing in the NBA will be improved. 

[Spud2nique]

I don’t think we get a shot at Luka. He is either going 1st or 2nd. Lot of smokescreen but don’t be fooled. Vlade looooooves him. For any of you that watches Divac and other Euros, they pass with flare and love each other’s game. Lol. He’s not slipping past the Kings at 2.

 

I like Bagley, Bamba and Porter. Bagley has the ability to put the ball in the basket a numerous amount of ways, he’s a generational talent. He’s been good since 2013 really. Bamba is a freak, you can’t teach size, also the guy sounds super mature for his age. He has a prototypical NBA body. He would be a top 5 physically intimating player in the league right away along with Lebron, Giannis etc. Last but not least, Porter can put the ball on the floor and has  silky smooth shot as well as some nifty moves to the hole. He has star written all over him.

 

 

[EazyRoc]

7 hours ago, davis171 said:

how often do you see James Harden beat his man in front of him using speed and quickness... I think he is every bit the athlete Harden is. Not saying he will ever be as good as Harden but a lite version is what I see in Doncic

Regularly to be quite frank. They are two completely different leagues when it comes to first step and speed .

[EazyRoc]

4 hours ago, High5 said:

I have my concerns about Doncic, but just because he's not notably athletic a lot of people talk about him like he's a finished product. Quickness and explosiveness can be improved. Handles can be improved. Spacing in the NBA will be improved. 

Quickness and explosiveness don’t really improve. He can improve his handle though and NBA spacing will help. His inability to beat the man in front of him head up will severely limit his effectiveness offensively in the NBA.

[davis171]

8 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

So where do you see James Harden in that video?  You made an athletic comparison with Doncic and Harden, and I just don't see it.   I'll agree with EazyRoc in that Doncic's game is more Joe Johnson like than James Harden.  That's not a bad thing either.

I never made the comparison I said a lite version who is a similar athlete you are just saying Harden is a significantly better athlete because he is black

 

1 hour ago, EazyRoc said:

Regularly to be quite frank. They are two completely different leagues when it comes to first step and speed .

See I’m just gunna have to disagree with you and we will see who is right in 10 years.