Was Billy Knight ahead of his time?

[NBASupes]

On 6/6/2018 at 10:05 AM, High5 said:

We literally traded an All Star stretch 4 for the draft pick we used on Josh. 

Al Harrington was a stretch 4. Back then, stretch 4 meant you can shoot the deep mid range jumper back then. 

[NBASupes]

On 6/5/2018 at 3:26 PM, Diesel said:

I would say that BK was ahead of his time he just didn't have the right personality to curry enough favor to see the idea through it's broken period.    The idea requires that you have each element from a classical lineup still present in guys that range from 6'5 - 6'10.. long, athletic, and uptempo.   Somebody was correct in pointing out that the loss of Claxton was a big problem because he was necessary.  We had to pick up Bibby who didn't play the defense.   Then Marvin and Shelden were missteps.    Chillz could have worked in the system.   We could have had Iguodala but at the time, I think Chillz possessed more in Ball handling skills.. but his shot was ugly.   The biggest problem was Smoove.   Smoove was before his time with not enough essential skills.   Smoove wanted to be a stretch 4.  unheard of until after him.   However, He didn't possess the shooting ability to be that.   Had he had a good outside Shot, BK would still be celebrated. 

 

I agree. BK had a great idea. In fact, it's still a great idea. A team that can switch everything, can outrun everyone, can outshoot everyone, and can create is the ultimate team. 

[Buzzard]

18 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I agree. BK had a great idea. In fact, it's still a great idea. A team that can switch everything, can outrun everyone, can outshoot everyone, and can create is the ultimate team. 

He got two of four close to right ( bold text ) ; but I honestly think the last two are the most important.

[NBASupes]

9 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

He got two of four close to right ( bold text ) ; but I honestly think the last two are the most important.

Yep.

[Atlantaholic]

On ‎06‎/‎06‎/‎2018 at 1:51 PM, FL_BRYANT said:

Having graduated from the University of Pittsburgh this is an opinion I have always held.  People love to beat up on Knight with out giving credit to his vision of how basketball should and would be played. Hind site on the draft picks shows he missed on some picks . Not sure but off the top of my head didn't he draft Pau Gasol and Boris Diaw? Plus Marvin is still in the league. If anyone  set this franchise behind it was Pete Babcock.  Knight's teams went on a long playoff run. 

Plus Billy was a Hell of a ballplayer.

 

 

 

He drafted Diaw, but not Pau Gasol. Pau Gasol was technically drafted by Pete Babcock though he was always intended to be traded to the Grizz for Abdur Rahim . It was that move, and the Glenn Rice trade that cost Babcock his job. 

[TheFuzz]

Antoine Walker was ahead of his time, too. Doesn't mean they were good.

[kg01]

Knight gets a horrid rap from us but, if we're honest, pretty much all the stuff GS claims to be doing defensively and roster makeup-wise are what he and Woody were trying to do here.

Clearly they failed and GS clearly took it to a different level.  But to suggest Knight was an idiot and that there's no connection there is unfair and revisionist (since we hate him) IMEO.

I heard Eddie Johnson speak on it briefly on NBARadio not long ago.  He mentioned the switching concepts were borrowed from Woodson and that they (meaning the Hawks) tried to emphasize length and athleticism defensively much like GS does.  Big difference obviously being the level of talent in GS.

Long story long, it's not crazy to suggest Knight's concepts were ahead of their time.  Admitting that doesn't mean you're concurrently signing off on all the poor decisions he made along the way.

[NBASupes]

11 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Knight gets a horrid rap from us but, if we're honest, pretty much all the stuff GS claims to be doing defensively and roster makeup-wise are what he and Woody were trying to do here.

Clearly they failed and GS clearly took it to a different level.  But to suggest Knight was an idiot and that there's no connection there is unfair and revisionist (since we hate him) IMEO.

I heard Eddie Johnson speak on it briefly on NBARadio not long ago.  He mentioned the switching concepts were borrowed from Woodson and that they (meaning the Hawks) tried to emphasize length and athleticism defensively much like GS does.  Big difference obviously being the level of talent in GS.

Long story long, it's not crazy to suggest Knight's concepts were ahead of their time.  Admitting that doesn't mean you're concurrently signing off on all the poor decisions he made along the way.

You gotta have great offensive players who can defend. You can't have it the other way unless that's going to be your #4 or #5 option 

[High5]

Trying to connect BK at all to what the Warriors are doing seems like a stretch to say the least. 

[kg01]

Just now, High5 said:

Trying to connect BK at all to what the Warriors are doing seems like a stretch to say the least. 

That's because you're choosing not to look past your disdain for him.

[AHF]

22 hours ago, Atlantaholic said:

He drafted Diaw, but not Pau Gasol. Pau Gasol was technically drafted by Pete Babcock though he was always intended to be traded to the Grizz for Abdur Rahim . It was that move, and the Glenn Rice trade that cost Babcock his job. 

LOL

You guys realize that Billy Knight was Memphis's GM who traded Shareef to Atlanta and directed Atlanta to pick Gasol right?

He absolutely deserve credit for Pau -- just happened when he was running Vancouver and before he came to the Hawks.  

Wish he would have schooled someone on our behalf the way he schooled Pete Babcock or drafted for us like he did that year for Memphis.

[High5]

41 minutes ago, kg01 said:

That's because you're choosing not to look past your disdain for him.

BK definitely wasn't the first person to want versatile defenders that could switch effectively. And there really aren't many similarities between the athletes each team acquired. Their best defenders pre-Durant were 6'6, 6'7, and 7'0. Not the 6'9/6'10 athletes BK was targeting. 

[kg01]

1 hour ago, High5 said:

BK definitely wasn't the first person to want versatile defenders that could switch effectively. And there really aren't many similarities between the athletes each team acquired. Their best defenders pre-Durant were 6'6, 6'7, and 7'0. Not the 6'9/6'10 athletes BK was targeting. 

Again, you're caught up on the failure of his acquisitions, not on the philosophy overall.

[Diesel]

On 6/8/2018 at 5:04 PM, Buzzard said:

He got two of four close to right ( bold text ) ; but I honestly think the last two are the most important.

Yeah.  I don't even know if Create is all that necessary anymore... if everybody can shoot. 

But the key is being able to switch on defense. 

[Diesel]

5 hours ago, TheFuzz said:

Antoine Walker was ahead of his time, too. Doesn't mean they were good.

Antoine Walker was Good... Until he wasn't.   I think that there's a line for outside shooters with low percentages.  They shouldn't be high volume shooters.  You have Walker and Smoove.  If you limit their outside shooting, they become very good players. 

[Diesel]

3 hours ago, High5 said:

Trying to connect BK at all to what the Warriors are doing seems like a stretch to say the least. 

I don't see it as a stretch defensively.   I don't think Knight was one who cared too much about offensive three point shooters.

[Diesel]

On 6/11/2018 at 4:41 PM, Atlantaholic said:

He drafted Diaw, but not Pau Gasol. Pau Gasol was technically drafted by Pete Babcock though he was always intended to be traded to the Grizz for Abdur Rahim . It was that move, and the Glenn Rice trade that cost Babcock his job. 

Actually, that was the Grizz pick.  We were definitely picking Battier... And that was Babcock's pick. 

 

[Buzzard]

3 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Yeah.  I don't even know if Create is all that necessary anymore... if everybody can shoot. 

But the key is being able to switch on defense. 

Switching and being good at it is a lot different than switching and not being good at it. Despite how we like to reminisce about Marvin, Josh, Al, Teague ( Bibby also ), and JJ we were not that good of a overall team. They put us back on the NBA map but did not take us very far.

I think every team needs one or two creators; especially in the fourth quarter and at the end of quarters. With the high pace of play these days; teams just wear your one star out; so we better have a second.

[High5]

26 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Again, you're caught up on the failure of his acquisitions, not on the philosophy overall.

The thing with BK was drafting a bunch of 6'9 guys who could switch. That doesn't match GS at all. If you mean just the idea of having versatile defenders, well, that goes back way before BK. Please explain your position if you think I'm wrong.

[Atlantaholic]

On ‎12‎/‎06‎/‎2018 at 2:19 PM, AHF said:

LOL

You guys realize that Billy Knight was Memphis's GM who traded Shareef to Atlanta and directed Atlanta to pick Gasol right?

He absolutely deserve credit for Pau -- just happened when he was running Vancouver and before he came to the Hawks.  

Wish he would have schooled someone on our behalf the way he schooled Pete Babcock or drafted for us like he did that year for Memphis.

I actually had no idea he was Vancouver's GM. Yes, it's too bad he didn't pull one of those when he was running things in ATL. Probably the only good move he made in his career lol.