Performance of Schlenk Discussion

[KB21]

29 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I'd still rather have the 1 in 5 chance to make this pick this year than another maxed out, capped out team and a 1st round exit which we've been since the last time we had the #3 pick.

Are you going to enjoy the years of endless losing that will be the result of this tank?

[JayBirdHawk]

41 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Are you going to enjoy the years of endless losing that will be the result of this tank?

I'll always enjoy watching my Hawks - win, lose or draw.

[nathan2331]

 

 

They said they same about the 2014 draft. I heard phrases like 'can't miss draft', it'll be like the LBJ draft, and so on and so on.

Wiggins, Parker, Embiid, Gordon, Exum, Smart, Randle - those are your top 7. None except Embiid is the best player on their respective teams, and it took him 4 years to get on the court full time. 

The draft is not an exact science. How many players drafted in the top 5 in the last 10 years have turned out to be franchise changers or even the 2nd best players on their respective team . 1 definitely 2 maybe.  But you expect the Hawks drafting at 3 and 4 to be the ones that gets the 2 of the top 5 right?

 

 

Maybe someone will dig up some posts making me look like a fool, but that draft had a clear drop after the top 3. Wiggins has shown some promise in the league, but it's clear Minnesota hasn't been a great place for him to develop. While Towns and Wiggins should each take responsibility for being some of the NBA's worst defenders, I have to think the coaching they received before Thibodeua's arrival was subpar. He was still good enough to fool the Wolves into handing him a max.

 

I always thought Embiid was the best player from that draft, and fortunately injuries haven't robbed him. Parker hasn't been so lucky. The other 4 I wasn't high on (I might be lying about Exum).

 

Comparatively, I do think this draft is special. Not just at the top, but there are guys outside the top 6 that have a path to stardom. Obviously most won't make it, but we'll see a lot of quality starters and role players.

[deester11]

34 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I'll always enjoy watching my Hawks - win, lose or draw.

At this point it's not about a tank or whatever that KB likes to constantly whine about.  There is a new direction and the Hawk's aren't pressuring anyone to stay on the wagon.  Been a Hawk's fan for more years than I care to discuss.  I may not like all the moves, trades,etc., but they are my team.  I embraced the Braves rebuild and it's been the most excited I've been in years.  I'm excited about what Schlenk COULD do.  This draft goes well long way towards going further into the playoffs rather than being kicked in the arse with no real hope for a championship.

Bagley 

Doncic

Young 

Bamba 

May not be immediate dividends but I would love one -two of those guys.

[JayBirdHawk]

23 minutes ago, deester11 said:

At this point it's not about a tank or whatever that KB likes to constantly whine about.  There is a new direction and the Hawk's aren't pressuring anyone to stay on the wagon.  Been a Hawk's fan for more years than I care to discuss.  I may not like all the moves, trades,etc., but they are my team.  I embraced the Braves rebuild and it's been the most excited I've been in years.  I'm excited about what Schlenk COULD do.  This draft goes well long way towards going further into the playoffs rather than being kicked in the arse with no real hope for a championship.

Bagley 

Doncic

Young 

Bamba 

May not be immediate dividends but I would love one -two of those guys.

I'm not going down KB's rabbit hole ever.

[hazer]

 

[ATLien_]

13 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

So i took a look at the last 10 years at the top 5 of each class - it's not pretty.

That's the scary part Jay bird. As a guy who studies data, I realize the single most likely scenario is we will end up where we were. I'm not disagreeing with the tank crowd it's hard to get the transcendent guy through other methods,  but you have to be extremely lucky to be bad when there is a transcendent talent. I can't say for sure any off these guys will be transcendent. I see two - three guys with that potential, ones going to Phoenix,  one is recovering from a back injury, and one is a raw energy guy that has to develop so much to get there. There's a good chance this could be the highest pick of this rebuild. 

Even if you luck into the talent,  you have to try and fight him from going to bigger markets or teaming up with his buddies in a destination market. Hell OKC drafted 3 MVPs and still got no hardware.

NBA really has to figure out a way to get mid tier teams talent. All these teams tanking is not healthy. Hopefully, the draft reforms are addressing this. 

[KB21]

4 hours ago, ATLien_ said:

That's the scary part Jay bird. As a guy who studies data, I realize the single most likely scenario is we will end up where we were. I'm not disagreeing with the tank crowd it's hard to get the transcendent guy through other methods,  but you have to be extremely lucky to be bad when there is a transcendent talent. I can't say for sure any off these guys will be transcendent. I see two - three guys with that potential, ones going to Phoenix,  one is recovering from a back injury, and one is a raw energy guy that has to develop so much to get there. There's a good chance this could be the highest pick of this rebuild. 

Even if you luck into the talent,  you have to try and fight him from going to bigger markets or teaming up with his buddies in a destination market. Hell OKC drafted 3 MVPs and still got no hardware.

NBA really has to figure out a way to get mid tier teams talent. All these teams tanking is not healthy. Hopefully, the draft reforms are addressing this. 

The Hawks will be the worst team in the league by a significant margin next year.  This will not be the highest pick of this rebuild, and they will once again have to decide which raw, overhyped, under skilled prospect that will not help the team win anytime soon to take.

[KB21]

Here's the other aspect of this.  If Tony Ressler forces the Hawks to take Marvin Bagley to sell tickets, then what makes anyone think that Travis Schlenk will actually get value in a trade for John Collins?  I mean, what trade has Schlenk made to date where the Hawks got good value out of the deal?

[nathan2331]

Here's the other aspect of this.  If Tony Ressler forces the Hawks to take Marvin Bagley to sell tickets, then what makes anyone think that Travis Schlenk will actually get value in a trade for John Collins?  I mean, what trade has Schlenk made to date where the Hawks got good value out of the deal?

I'm not enthusiastic about Schlenk's ability to negotiate in trades either but I would hope he wouldn't gift away Collins (or even Dennis for that matter). I suppose you can say Howard needed to be moved last year, but we don't need to move anybody right now.

[KB21]

1 minute ago, nathan2331 said:

18 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Here's the other aspect of this.  If Tony Ressler forces the Hawks to take Marvin Bagley to sell tickets, then what makes anyone think that Travis Schlenk will actually get value in a trade for John Collins?  I mean, what trade has Schlenk made to date where the Hawks got good value out of the deal?

 

I'm not enthusiastic about Schlenk's ability to negotiate in trades either but I would hope he wouldn't gift away Collins (or even Dennis for that matter). I suppose you can say Howard needed to be moved last year, but we don't need to move anybody right now.

If they draft Bagley, they will need to move Collins.

[nathan2331]

If they draft Bagley, they will need to move Collins.

In the future maybe. Not immediately. Collins himself has said he can see himself playing next to someone like Bagley. Doesn't mean it will work, but at least he doesn't think the pairing is redundant.

[KB21]

1 minute ago, nathan2331 said:

13 minutes ago, KB21 said:

If they draft Bagley, they will need to move Collins.

 

In the future maybe. Not immediately. Collins himself has said he can see himself playing next to someone like Bagley. Doesn't mean it will work, but at least he doesn't think the pairing is redundant.

Marvin Bagley also thinks of himself as a great defensive player, so take what these players say with a grain of salt.  I don't see a pathway where they can play together and be effective.

[nathan2331]

Marvin Bagley also thinks of himself as a great defensive player, so take what these players say with a grain of salt.  I don't see a pathway where they can play together and be effective.

I don't either.

[EazyRoc]

I’d give Schlenk a C+ thus far as Hawks GM. He has been very bad at trades, but he still has us in a position to where we can take on bad contracts in exchange for assets. His saving grace has been his scouting ability thus far. I believe the next 2 years will be what makes or breaks him. He has to add a star at the top of the draft and at least one starting quality player in this draft. That’s not an easy task, but if we are focused on  stockpiling picks he has to make them count.

[JayBirdHawk]

I'm not overly impressed with Schlenk so far but I'm not writing him off since he'sbeen at it for 1 year.

I was disappointed we weren't able to make any trades for 1sts at the deadline but I'd rather he passes on deals that brought back bad money for 2nd round picks, like the Bayless and a 2nd for Beli. Why eat into our capspace by $9 mil for a 2nd when if you need a 2nd you can buy one for $3 mil. Sometimes the best trades are no trades. Same with Illyasova. Was Dedmon even on the trade block?

I've already said I'm giving more credit to BudCox and the scout team for Collins and Dorsey. Schlenk wasn't scouting high picks and he said so.  Collins was already on the Hawks radar prior to Schlenk. Does anyone know if our scouting department has changed or stayed intact?

I don't like how the whole Bud thing ended up with the Hawks still paying his entire salary.

This offseason is important, not only the draft but FAcy as well - I'll be watching

 

[Spud2nique]

On 6/15/2018 at 2:56 PM, JayBirdHawk said:

I'm not going down KB's rabbit hole ever.

I fell in...not doing it again. Dang it he got me. I’m mad at myself.

[KB21]

8 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

I fell in...not doing it again. Dang it he got me. I’m mad at myself.

Someone is upset that I was able to get them to admit that they prefer flash to substance.

[Spud2nique]

3 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Someone is upset that I was able to get them to admit that they prefer flash to substance.

Damnit you found me... 

ok u got me..I want flash. 

[terrell]

On 6/15/2018 at 1:02 PM, KB21 said:

Sure.  It’s a great move if you enjoy endless losing and being put into a position to take extremely flawed prospects like Bagley.  

If he takes JJJ, then what? You gonna call him a genius? lol