The Basketball Gods sent me a sign ....coincidence? I think not

[Royjr9]

19 minutes ago, ggp said:

As a casual fan, I have a lot holes in my knowledge, so I am asking this question:

Where does Trae Young rank, compared to the PG's of the past ten drafts?  

If he ranks in the top three, then, in my eyes, he is worth the 3rd pick.   

 

Really projects as a one way player, high usage player. He pass well though, not a guy that should go top 5 let alone ten.

[EazyRoc]

16 minutes ago, ggp said:

As a casual fan, I have a lot holes in my knowledge, so I am asking this question:

Where does Trae Young rank, compared to the PG's of the past ten drafts?  

If he ranks in the top three, then, in my eyes, he is worth the 3rd pick.   

 

How well he translates is based on two factors: 

Can he get into the lane and collapse defenses ?

This, IMO, is the biggest risk with Young. He’s not overly quick and could struggle against better defenders who are able to “stay up on him” on the perimeter. His ball handling, body control, and change of pace are pro-level. However, if a defender is able to force the ball out of his hands, it will severely limit his ability to create.

Can he use his shooting ability to be great off the ball ?

This is something he hasn’t shown at the college level. However, this is also something that isn’t hard to improve with the right mindset. If he is ego-driven and just has to have the ball in his hands, then he will never be great off the ball like he could.

[EazyRoc]

In the past 10 drafts, off the top of my head, he sits around 6th best PROSPECT for PGs behind Kyrie Irving, John Wall, Russell Westbrook, Lonzo Ball, and Ben Simmons. Out of all them, I personally feel like he’s the best playmaker and passer other than Wall and Ball. He’s not nearly as athletic as them though so there lies the concern when drafting him.

[AHF]

5 hours ago, JCDBaptist said:

Mike Bibby did not have the range that Young appears to have...he did not have the quickness and assertiveness, nor vision or playmaking ability of Young.. bad comparison to me.

I'm hoping for a new backcourt of Doncic and Young. I think their game and abilities compliment each other.

Haul in Nerlens Noel with JC and Prince and you have a good core to build upon.

Young showed a lot more range and aggresssiveness.

Bibby showed as the better athlete and playmaker (and defender).

You need to strongly factor in usage rate when evaluating Young because, unlike Bobby who you would expect to have similar usage in the pro’s, Young’s usage rate will need to plummet in the pro’s if he wants to actually win games.  His college usage rate is unreal and unhealthy.

[thecampster]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

Young showed a lot more range and aggresssiveness.

Bibby showed as the better athlete and playmaker (and defender).

You need to strongly factor in usage rate when evaluating Young because, unlike Bobby who you would expect to have similar usage in the pro’s, Young’s usage rate will need to plummet in the pro’s if he wants to actually win games.  His college usage rate is unreal and unhealthy.

As well, the difference in college and the pros to play style.  Trae was creating most of his own offense in college. Because of the zone defense, there are way less screens set in college. Point guards have to create offense in one on one plays, taking people off the dribble and drawing the zone 5. In the pros, he's going to get more space to operate because of the high usage of the pick and roll. He is a superior passer with extreme vision. If I see a whole in his game in the pros, it will be in his ability to turn the corner after the screen.

Just now, thecampster said:

As well, the difference in college and the pros to play style.  Trae was creating most of his own offense in college. Because of the zone defense, there are way less screens set in college. Point guards have to create offense in one on one plays, taking people off the dribble and drawing the zone 5. In the pros, he's going to get more space to operate because of the high usage of the pick and roll. He is a superior passer with extreme vision. If I see a whole in his game in the pros, it will be in his ability to turn the corner after the screen.

wow.... *hole, not whole  (I am doing this so much more lately...I really need to slow down and feel my age).

[JCDBaptist]

3 hours ago, AHF said:

Young showed a lot more range and aggresssiveness.

Bibby showed as the better athlete and playmaker (and defender).

You need to strongly factor in usage rate when evaluating Young because, unlike Bobby who you would expect to have similar usage in the pro’s, Young’s usage rate will need to plummet in the pro’s if he wants to actually win games.  His college usage rate is unreal and unhealthy.

But the team was carried by Young at an efficient clip minus a few slump games. That shows leadership and fortitude, the IT factor. 

I think he definitely is more athletic than Bibby with his quickness and handles. And his vision and passes translate to a better playmaker IMO.

[AHF]

Bear in mind, I hate Pistol Pete/Starbury/Westbrook types who are all about their numbers but whose teams are never very good.  I saw that type of individual epic numbers but non-functioning team structure in Young's OU team.  All that team did was ride his coattails and that type of Kobe approach is fine in HS or to a degree in college but doesn't even win big at that level.  For me to get on board with him, he needs to radically shift his game to a more team focused game.

Note that even his college numbers changed for the worse once teams started gameplanning around him being the entire offense in college.

He shot 39% from the field in conference play.  He shot 36% in both February and March (sub-30% from 3pt range).

In 2018, his A/TO ratio was a vomit inducing 1.28.

To win big in the NBA, you need balance and threats from all over the floor in today's game.  He needs to be ready to orchestrate a team like that to truly succeed in the NBA, IMO, which is a fundamental change from how OU operated.

[KB21]

4 minutes ago, AHF said:

Bear in mind, I hate Pistol Pete/Starbury/Westbrook types who are all about their numbers but whose teams are never very good.  I saw that type of individual epic numbers but non-functioning team structure in Young's OU team.  All that team did was ride his coattails and that type of Kobe approach is fine in HS or to a degree in college but doesn't even win big at that level.  For me to get on board with him, he needs to radically shift his game to a more team focused game.

Note that even his college numbers changed for the worse once teams started gameplanning around him being the entire offense in college.

He shot 39% from the field in conference play.  He shot 36% in both February and March (sub-30% from 3pt range).

In 2018, his A/TO ratio was a vomit inducing 1.28.

To win big in the NBA, you need balance and threats from all over the floor in today's game.  He needs to be ready to orchestrate a team like that to truly succeed in the NBA, IMO, which is a fundamental change from how OU operated.

I think this assumes that the way he played at OU is his style of play.  The guy played on the same team with an offensive black hole in Michael Porter Jr, so he had no issue playing second fiddle to a player who was perceived to be more of a scoring threat.  

I think his play at OU is a result of them having to lean on him.  

[AHF]

18 minutes ago, KB21 said:

I think this assumes that the way he played at OU is his style of play.  The guy played on the same team with an offensive black hole in Michael Porter Jr, so he had no issue playing second fiddle to a player who was perceived to be more of a scoring threat.  

I think his play at OU is a result of them having to lean on him.  

That is why you have to severely discount his scoring counting stats.  They mean little for projecting him when his role would be changing that radically.

The question on that role change is why he picked a school for the purpose of playing “all about me” offense instead of the many schools where he could have gone and played team offense.  Which way does he want to play?

[KB21]

Just now, AHF said:

That is why you have to severely discount his counting stats.  They mean little for projecting him when his role would be hanging that significantly.  

The question on that role change is why he picked a school for the purpose of playing “all about me” offense instead of the many schools where he could have gone and played team offense.  Which way does he want to play?

I think him being from Norman and wanting to play for the local school had a lot to do with that.  Also, I'm not even looking at his counting stats.  It's just rare to see a guy who posted as high of a usage rate as he had and as high of an assists rate as he had.  No one else has ever done it, and the only other player that was close was Steph Curry, who had a 38 usage and 40 assist rate.  Trae's assists rate was 48% with a 37% usage.

[AHF]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

I think him being from Norman and wanting to play for the local school had a lot to do with that.  Also, I'm not even looking at his counting stats.  It's just rare to see a guy who posted as high of a usage rate as he had and as high of an assists rate as he had.  No one else has ever done it, and the only other player that was close was Steph Curry, who had a 38 usage and 40 assist rate.  Trae's assists rate was 48% with a 37% usage.

High assist numbers can reflect ball domination as much as passing orientation, though.  If no one else gets to handle the ball, nearly all the assists come from a single source.  On a simple level, every OU possession ended in Young either shooting or making the assisting pass.  Once the ball was out of his hand, it usually went right back to him.

I do think he has passing skills and is a very good shooter - the type of offense where everything revolves around him makes me suspect of nearly all his numbers.

[DrReality]

92.9 talk by the guy who also does NBA tv says we r hot on Young and are talking to teams about trading down to get him later. Hope not unless we get a sweet deal. 

[Spud2nique]

22 minutes ago, DrReality said:

92.9 talk by the guy who also does NBA tv says we r hot on Young and are talking to teams about trading down to get him later. Hope not unless we get a sweet deal. 

Not mad at this either but like you said it better be a sweet deal.

[AHF]

2 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

Not mad at this either but like you said it better be a sweet deal.

Super sweet

[TheFuzz]

On 6/17/2018 at 3:58 PM, EazyRoc said:

In the past 10 drafts, off the top of my head, he sits around 6th best PROSPECT for PGs behind Kyrie Irving, John Wall, Russell Westbrook, Lonzo Ball, and Ben Simmons. Out of all them, I personally feel like he’s the best playmaker and passer other than Wall and Ball. He’s not nearly as athletic as them though so there lies the concern when drafting him.

Agree with this except I like him better than Ball and worse than Dennis Smith

[aali34]

On 6/17/2018 at 8:35 AM, KB21 said:

If you draft Bamba, you will be neutralized by small ball line ups where you have to take him off the court due to his inability to switch.

Can you show me any sources that mention his lack of switch-ability? When I research it all I see is people praising him for his potential to be good at it.

[KB21]

9 minutes ago, aali34 said:

Can you show me any sources that mention his lack of switch-ability? When I research it all I see is people praising him for his potential to be good at it.

https://www.thestepien.com/2018/04/16/bet-mo-bamba-bet-athletic-development/

[macdaddy]

22 hours ago, AHF said:

That is why you have to severely discount his scoring counting stats.  They mean little for projecting him when his role would be changing that radically.

The question on that role change is why he picked a school for the purpose of playing “all about me” offense instead of the many schools where he could have gone and played team offense.  Which way does he want to play?

I mean that's pretty simple.   He's going top ten in the draft.  You think he's a top ten pick if he plays at Kansas and averages 12/4?   It's not "all about me" it's about showcasing talent.   Why did Bagley go to a loaded Duke team vs a team where he has to lead the team.   Because Duke was the best place for him to showcase because it has a coach and talent that can get him the ball in easy position to score.     I'll take Young's desire to have the responsibility of being best player on the team any day.  

[aali34]

4 hours ago, KB21 said:

https://www.thestepien.com/2018/04/16/bet-mo-bamba-bet-athletic-development/

Seems to me that its more about technique and feet positioning than his speed.

[AHF]

3 hours ago, macdaddy said:

I mean that's pretty simple.   He's going top ten in the draft.  You think he's a top ten pick if he plays at Kansas and averages 12/4?   It's not "all about me" it's about showcasing talent.   Why did Bagley go to a loaded Duke team vs a team where he has to lead the team.   Because Duke was the best place for him to showcase because it has a coach and talent that can get him the ball in easy position to score.     I'll take Young's desire to have the responsibility of being best player on the team any day.  

If he averages 12/4 at Kansas that is called getting exposed.  If that is all the talent he has then whoever drafts him will irrevocably regret it.