Luka will start PF ....here’s why it’s hawks related

[Macknsweetjones]

Trae seemed really quick going in the paint yesterday..I think he has above average speed mixed in with crafty movement 

[HawkItus]

15 hours ago, AHF said:

Wait a minute.  Does anyone here really believe that Young is equal to the athlete that Rajon Rondo was coming out of college?  From a pure speed, quickness and leaping perspective as described above?  Surely we aren't that blind.

PG's don't need to be all-world athletes to be effective (see Mark Jackson, Mark Price, Steve Nash, etc.) so this isn't a criticism of him but really?

Here is a really shallow search:

NBADraft.net profile:

ESPN profile:

Draft Express

NBC Draft Scouting Report

CBS Scouting Report

NBA Draft Room

Sports Illustrated quoting NBA Scouts

Note I have omitted all the positives about his craftiness, skill and mind for the game since that is all irrelevant to this.  Every scouting service had real positives about his craftiness and ability to use deception to overcome more athletic opponents.  Some of the same ones with the criticisms of his athletic tools above predicted his skills were such that if things went the right way for him that he could become a superstar.  But all of these marked his athleticism as a negative.

Must be my search terms, because none of these turned up.  Thanks.  So he is a subpar athlete(NBA wise) in some sense.  I think the original comment was to him not being able to dunk and then I brought up below the rim PG who flourished.  Did not intend to say he was the athlete Rondo was.  Regardless, I was wrong and he is a poor athlete.  @bleachkit

[Peoriabird]

9 minutes ago, HawkItus said:

  I think the original comment was to him not being able to dunk @bleachkit

Actually Trae can dunk!  He threw off the back board and dunked in practice

 

[AHF]

8 minutes ago, HawkItus said:

Must be my search terms, because none of these turned up.  Thanks.  So he is a subpar athlete(NBA wise) in some sense.  I think the original comment was to him not being able to dunk and then I brought up below the rim PG who flourished.  Did not intend to say he was the athlete Rondo was.  Regardless, I was wrong and he is a poor athlete.  @bleachkit

To me, he isn't such a poor athlete that it is a bar for him to succeed big.  If I were trying to make the NBA, my physical tools would shut me out regardless of my skills but Trae doesn't have that.  He does have some things he will need to overcome but his ability to shift speeds and be crafty with the ball can totally overshadow any athletic limitations on offense.  On defense, he will need to put a lot of work in and demonstrate effort and focus.  But there is no substitute for effort on D anyway.  

I don't think we should be crapping on Trae because of his size, speed, etc. - just that we should realistically note that he will rarely be the quickest or most athletic point on the floor and that his skills and fundamentals will need to overcome that. 

[bleachkit]

18 hours ago, AHF said:

Wait a minute.  Does anyone here really believe that Young is equal to the athlete that Rajon Rondo was coming out of college?  From a pure speed, quickness and leaping perspective as described above?  Surely we aren't that blind.

PG's don't need to be all-world athletes to be effective (see Mark Jackson, Mark Price, Steve Nash, etc.) so this isn't a criticism of him but really?

Here is a really shallow search:

NBADraft.net profile:

ESPN profile:

Draft Express

NBC Draft Scouting Report

CBS Scouting Report

NBA Draft Room

Sports Illustrated quoting NBA Scouts

Note I have omitted all the positives about his craftiness, skill and mind for the game since that is all irrelevant to this.  Every scouting service had real positives about his craftiness and ability to use deception to overcome more athletic opponents.  Some of the same ones with the criticisms of his athletic tools above predicted his skills were such that if things went the right way for him that he could become a superstar.  But all of these marked his athleticism as a negative.

Thank you. I'm glad there is at least one other person besides me who is capable of objective reason and not a slave to biased homerism.

[Macknsweetjones]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

Actually Trae can dunk!  He threw off the back board and dunked in practice

 

Was looking for this video ..def dunks with ease 

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, Macknsweetjones said:

Was looking for this video ..def dunks with ease 

And doesn't look like this subpar athlete either

[bleachkit]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

To me, he isn't such a poor athlete that it is a bar for him to succeed big.  If I were trying to make the NBA, my physical tools would shut me out regardless of my skills but Trae doesn't have that.  He does have some things he will need to overcome but his ability to shift speeds and be crafty with the ball can totally overshadow any athletic limitations on offense.  On defense, he will need to put a lot of work in and demonstrate effort and focus.  But there is no substitute for effort on D anyway.  

I don't think we should be crapping on Trae because of his size, speed, etc. - just that we should realistically note that he will rarely be the quickest or most athletic point on the floor and that his skills and fundamentals will need to overcome that. 

The NBA is a skill league first, athlete league second. Trae most certainly had the skills. My concern is his ability to get good looks. He might have taken so many 30 footers in college because that's the only way he can get open. He is going to have to learn to play off the ball to get open shots. 

[Jungle Jack]

Speaking of Trae, NBA.com just released the GM Survey and he did not get a single mention.  Huerter and Spellman did.

ROOKIES & INTERNATIONAL

Luka Doncic is a popular choice among GMs to walk away with top rookie honors.

Who will win the 2018-19 Rookie of the Year?

1. Luka Doncic, Dallas – 43%

2. Marvin Bagley III, Sacramento – 17%

    Wendell Carter Jr., Chicago – 17%

4. DeAndre Ayton, Phoenix – 13%

Also receiving votes: Jaren Jackson Jr., Memphis; Kevin Knox, New York; Collin Sexton, Cleveland

Last year: Lonzo Ball – 62%

Which rookie will be the best player in five years?

1. DeAndre Ayton, Phoenix – 27%

    Jaren Jackson Jr., Memphis – 27%

3. Luka Doncic, Dallas – 17%

4. Marvin Bagley III, Sacramento – 13%

    Kevin Knox, New York – 13%

6. Wendell Carter Jr., Chicago – 3%

Last year: Josh Jackson – 24%

Which rookie was the biggest steal at where he was selected in the Draft?

1. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (11), LA Clippers – 27%

2. Svi Mykhailiuk (47), L.A. Lakers – 13%

2. Wendell Carter Jr. (7), Chicago – 10%    

    Michael Porter Jr. (14), Denver – 10%

    Gary Trent Jr. (37), Portland – 10%

6. Luka Doncic (3), Dallas – 7%

    Kevin Knox (9), New York – 7%

Also receiving votes: DeAndre Ayton (1), Phoenix; Kevin Huerter (19), Atlanta; Omari Spellman (30), Atlanta; Moritz Wagner (25), L.A. Lakers; Lonnie Walker IV (18), San Antonio

Last year: Dennis Smith Jr. – 37%

[Macknsweetjones]

Trae plays with a chip on his shoulder I’m sure he’ll be motivated 

[Jungle Jack]

I remain optimistic about Trae.  What I struggle with is that most likely we could have had both Doncic and Trae after Sac and PHX passed on Doncic.  I really do not think Young would have gone until around 8 or 9 and with our 19th, 30th and 34th picks, I don't see how we could have not packaged them to do so.  That said, I would have wanted Doncic and Sexson ideally.

[Peoriabird]

4 minutes ago, Jungle Jack said:

I remain optimistic about Trae.  What I struggle with is that most likely we could have had both Doncic and Trae after Sac and PHX passed on Doncic.  I really do not think Young would have gone until around 8 or 9 and with our 19th, 30th and 34th picks, I don't see how we could have not packaged them to do so.  That said, I would have wanted Doncic and Sexson ideally.

Only problem is Schlenk didn't want Doncic

[MaceCase]

8 hours ago, Jungle Jack said:

I remain optimistic about Trae.  What I struggle with is that most likely we could have had both Doncic and Trae after Sac and PHX passed on Doncic.  I really do not think Young would have gone until around 8 or 9 and with our 19th, 30th and 34th picks, I don't see how we could have not packaged them to do so.  That said, I would have wanted Doncic and Sexson ideally.

I doubt he was making it past the Magic at #6.

[Spud2nique]

3 hours ago, MaceCase said:

I doubt he was making it past the Magic at #6.

Agreed. The Magic wanted him so bad I went over to realgm msg board to torment their fans like I usually do and they weren’t in the mood.

Penny ain’t walkin through those doors folks...

[TheFuzz]

On 10/2/2018 at 9:07 PM, Macknsweetjones said:

Trae seemed really quick going in the paint yesterday..I think he has above average speed mixed in with crafty movement 

Yea, I think he's a better athlete in most senses than Curry, but Curry's insane shooting ability masks some of that. Rondo and prime Paul? No, Trac ain't there yet.

[Buzzard]

On 9/22/2018 at 6:45 PM, JTB said:

Dallas apparently will likely be starting Luka at PF with Dirk coming off the bench...that’s news to me (not that dirk is coming off the bench lol) but that Dallas views Luka as PF and it had me thinking , since forever Luka and Trae will be connected throughout their careers I’m wondering if Schlenk also saw Luka as a PF and being that we have Collins perhaps this also helped schlenk and the rest of the front office be more all in on Trae Young as they scouted both players leading up to this years draft.

 

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/251190/Mavericks-Likely-To-Start-Luka-Doncic-At-Power-Forward-Dirk-Nowitzki-Off-Bench

 

personally this probably doesn’t matter much as I believe we are geared more towards a positionless league to a certain extent but even then I don’t see Luka as a PF nor did I ever think one time of a Luka and Collins pairing for our future pf and center combo....shout out to those who said you see Luka as pf, I know someone on this board mentioned that.

with all this said I was already overly happy that we drafted Trae over Luka but I’m even more happy about that decision now if the league is seeing Luka as a power forward. To me Luka was already going to get beat up on defense but if he’s guarding PFs I believe it’s going to be an even bigger problem for him .

Luka will be in trouble anywhere he plays defensively. I do think a highly efficient offense system will get him his looks and give him great lanes for passing. Having a solid defensive big is going to help a lot; but there is this thing called a three second violation that even the best defenders have to worry about.

I personally think his best defensive spot is on the SG. Bigger players will post him up and others will drive by him; at least he is big enough to take care of the perimeter at SG and maybe SF. Think Kyle Korver and D, that is my opinion of Luka.

[Jungle Jack]

The horror of horrors would be the Mavs ending up keeping their 1st.  Quite vexing that we had to agree to protections on their first.  And indeed Trae might have gone 6th.   Again, I really think Trae can be a very good player.  It is just I really struggled with the manner in which we acquired him considering just how lousy with draft picks we were and how the first two picks of the draft went.

That said, Huerter really can be special and hopefully likewise Omari.

[EazyRoc]

16 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

Luka will be in trouble anywhere he plays defensively. I do think a highly efficient offense system will get him his looks and give him great lanes for passing. Having a solid defensive big is going to help a lot; but there is this thing called a three second violation that even the best defenders have to worry about.

I personally think his best defensive spot is on the SG. Bigger players will post him up and others will drive by him; at least he is big enough to take care of the perimeter at SG and maybe SF. Think Kyle Korver and D, that is my opinion of Luka.

I think PF is his best position because he’s got good size at about 230. Most 4s nowadays aren’t really huge threats in post up situations anyways.  If he finds himself matched up against a stretch 4 type, I think he could hang. You put him on a SG or SF and he will struggle most nights. NBA wings are some of the best athletes in the world. 

[bleachkit]

49 minutes ago, EazyRoc said:

I think PF is his best position because he’s got good size at about 230. Most 4s nowadays aren’t really huge threats in post up situations anyways.  If he finds himself matched up against a stretch 4 type, I think he could hang. You put him on a SG or SF and he will struggle most nights. NBA wings are some of the best athletes in the world. 

It's depends on your definition of athleticism. NFL wide receivers and cornerbacks have superior athleticism to NBA wings if you are using metrics like strength, speed , explosion, etc.

[capstone21]

On 10/3/2018 at 9:59 AM, Peoriabird said:

Actually Trae can dunk!  He threw off the back board and dunked in practice

 

Ha ... barely ... but he still can dunk