Jimmy Butler

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

No and we don't need free agents ATM.  Our focus needs to be on developing Collins, Prince, and Trae.  Butler is a has-been anyway.

[JayBirdHawk]

8 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

The tankers want to keep tanking, because they have dreams of Zion Williamson and RJ Barrett.   But if we're as good as people think we're going to be, we'll be picking around 8th - 11th, choosing between guys like Cameron Reddish, Johntay Porter, and Romeo Langford.

Grabbing Butler would've been a popular narrative around these parts just a mere 2 years ago.  But now that the Hawks covet "draft capital" instead of "NBA established capital",there will be no interest in a guy who be the best players we've added since Joe Johnson. 

No, that's not why I don't want Butler.  He's shown he can't be an effective leader of young men who are just starting their NBA careers even with a coach he loves. 

You are proposing we trade young assests and picks for him for THIS season. The way I envision it playing out:

Scenario 1:  He's here for this season, plays 65 games (that's his average the last 5 years) and bolts in the offseason while the Hawks pick at #14 (since he'll help us win some games but not enough to make the playoffs).  Meanwhile we've traded Prince and a 1st round pick for him and unlike Minny who can get something for him, Hawks will get NOTHING. Nothing for Al, nothing for Millsap, nothing for Beli and Illy. That's just not good asset management.

Scenario 2:  He resigns to his mega deal starting at $33 million, then midway through the 1st season he asks to be traded, if his history tells us anything that is what will happen.  We'll end up taking back a ton of bad salary in any trade and measly picks. NO THANKS.

 

2 hours ago, kg01 said:

I don't disagree with your overall point, however, this is the wrong guy to go to bat for.

Butler is not a guy you want around, certainly not leading, a young team.  We have multiple years of evidence to that effect.

The anti-Jimi talk has nothing to do with pro or anti tanking.

I'd advise going to bat for a different addition.

This can't be said enough.

John Paxson on Jimmy and leadership:

Quote

“Here’s how I feel about the whole leadership thing. When you’re talking too much about leadership you’re probably not getting what you need from the team leaders,” Paxson said. “And I always thought and I played with the greatest player in the game and you didn’t hear him talking about leadership. You heard him going out and showing leadership and showing that he was a winning player. I don’t think any of our guys need to talk about that anymore, about leadership, I think they need to show it.”

Scottie Pippen:

Quote

Pippen: “In Chicago, he didn’t handle it very well and I think it really turned the organization—”

Why do you think he didn’t handle it very well?

Pippen: “I don’t think he handled it right from a leadership standpoint of what it takes to be a superstar.”

What are the specifics that people are staying he wasn’t good in the locker room?

Pippen: “Well, it’s just a lot of locker room talk that Jimmy was disrespecting the head coach, disrespecting the assistant coach. Just wasn’t showing the type of leadership that you’d expect from your best player.”

 

[Spud2nique]

3 hours ago, Vol4ever said:

Yea he is top 10.  Plays both ends.  

? top 10 guy for you and Thibs maybe. 

[JayBirdHawk]

3 hours ago, Vol4ever said:

Yea he is top 10.  Plays both ends.  

There are 10 players I would pick to build my team around before I get to Jimmy.

[Spud2nique]

Just now, JayBirdHawk said:

There are 10 players I would pick to build my team around before I get to Jimmy.

15

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, Spud2nique said:

15

I'm sure I can find 15 with looking it up. Off the top I can name 10 easily.

[kg01]

30 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

? top 10 guy for you and Thibs maybe. 

Eggsactly.

I think all these guys love the 'idea' of Jimi and aren't really digging as deep as they should.  He's shown himself to be a bad teammate and a bad dude if you believe the rumors about KAT's ... cat (is that offensive?).

4 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

There are 10 players I would pick to build my team around before I get to Jimmy.

And that'd be just because you decided to stop at 10.  The closer he is to a Marcus Smart-type role, the better off the team will be.  Problem is, he's looking to be paid $30mil plus. 

Yikes!

[High5]

9 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

The tankers want to keep tanking, because they have dreams of Zion Williamson and RJ Barrett.   But if we're as good as people think we're going to be, we'll be picking around 8th - 11th, choosing between guys like Cameron Reddish, Johntay Porter, and Romeo Langford.

Grabbing Butler would've been a popular narrative around these parts just a mere 2 years ago.  But now that the Hawks covet "draft capital" instead of "NBA established capital",there will be no interest in a guy who be the best players we've added since Joe Johnson. 

Two years ago we were gearing up to face LeBron in the playoffs. We've changed course and tanking requires a little patience. Trying to take a shortcut after one season is a good way to end up right back where we were. 

[Spud2nique]

Lebron

Durant

Kawhi

Anthony Davis

Curry

Giannis

Harden

Westbrook

Embiid

Simmons

Kyrie

Kristaps Porzingis

John Wall

Damian Lillard

KAT

Donovan Mitchell

Paul George

Klay Thompson 

18 guys ahead for me...

Next would be Cp3, Oladipo and Jimmy around the same range.

 

 

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

Yes.  This is the pro tankers thought process.  Accept losing as a means to get the next LeBron James, when the chances of that happening are like 1 in a million.  

So about the same odds we had of winning championship during the WLOC/Horf/Sap treadmill years? I’ll take wiping the slate clean with tanking over 60-wins and false hope.

[Peoriabird]

2 hours ago, KB21 said:

He took a non playoff team in Minnesota and got them to the playoffs in the west.  Jimmy Butler is a top 20 player in this league.

 

How many playoff series victories in his career?

[kg01]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

How many playoff series victories in his career?

School 'em, Peo.

People gotta realize agenda'ing makes them look bad.

[Peoriabird]

4 minutes ago, kg01 said:

School 'em, Peo.

People gotta realize agenda'ing makes them look bad.

I mean Jeff Teague has won more playoff series than Butler.

[kg01]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

I mean Jeff Teague has won more playoff series than Butler.

... boom.

Hol' on, lemme put my agenda-hat on ... *ahem* ..

"Why don't the Hawks go after a guy like Jeff Teague?  He's a proven winner.  Of course the pro-tankers hate that idea 'cause blah, bleh, bluh ..."

Man this season's gonna be whimsical on the board.  Maybe I should put myself out of my own misery and get banned (again). 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

 

3 hours ago, kg01 said:

I don't disagree with your overall point, however, this is the wrong guy to go to bat for.

Butler is not a guy you want around, certainly not leading, a young team.  We have multiple years of evidence to that effect.

The anti-Jimi talk has nothing to do with pro or anti tanking.

I'd advise going to bat for a different addition.

We have this discussion every year on this forum though.  It's never the "right player" at the "right time".

The players that people want, are unrealistic, because they normally end up re-signing with their current team.   

 

- Carmelo wasn't the right one

- Demarcus Cousins wasn't the right one

- Al Jefferson wasn't the right one

- Now Jimmy Butler isn't the right one

 

The elite level talents have no desire to come here, but the lower All-Star level talent may.  But as long as we keep dismissing any player that goes against "the plan", the more that you are solely dependent on the kids elevating themselves to that next level.  If Trae Young doesn't pan out, and we don't add vets who are capable of being at least the #2 scoring option on this team, this rebuild could be like waiting of those Georgia Peach Pass lanes to be completed.

 

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

We have this discussion every year on this forum though.  It's never the "right player" at the "right time".

The players that people want, are unrealistic, because they normally end up re-signing with their current team.   

 

- Carmelo wasn't the right one

- Demarcus Cousins wasn't the right one

- Al Jefferson wasn't the right one

- Now Jimmy Butler isn't the right one

 

The elite level talents have no desire to come here, but the lower All-Star level talent may.  But as long as we keep dismissing any player that goes against "the plan", the more that you are solely dependent on the kids elevating themselves to that next level.  If Trae Young doesn't pan out, and we don't add vets who are capable of being at least the #2 scoring option on this team, this rebuild could be like waiting of those Georgia Peach Pass lanes to be completed.

 

We'll have plenty of money next summer and can sign anyone we want.  Why trade assets now knowing you can sign him next summer if he has a desire to come here?

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, PSSSHHHRRR87 said:

No and we don't need free agents ATM.  Our focus needs to be on developing Collins, Prince, and Trae.  Butler is a has-been anyway.

Stop it.

 

This is a game that the T-Wolves lost, mainly because of Dennis' and Baze's heroics in the 4th. ( the tank crew didn't like this win, by the way ).

Jimmy is also a 5 assist guy, who could make life easier for the younger guys.

[kg01]

9 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

We have this discussion every year on this forum though.  It's never the "right player" at the "right time".

The players that people want, are unrealistic, because they normally end up re-signing with their current team.   

 

- Carmelo wasn't the right one

- Demarcus Cousins wasn't the right one

- Al Jefferson wasn't the right one

- Now Jimmy Butler isn't the right one

 

The elite level talents have no desire to come here, but the lower All-Star level talent may.  But as long as we keep dismissing any player that goes against "the plan", the more that you are solely dependent on the kids elevating themselves to that next level.  If Trae Young doesn't pan out, and we don't add vets who are capable of being at least the #2 scoring option on this team, this rebuild could be like waiting of those Georgia Peach Pass lanes to be completed.

 

Look at the names you're listing for pete's sake!!!!

Right argument, wrong dudes mayne!!

I don't like CJ McCollum but he's the type of guy you should be going to bat for with this line of thinking.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

There are 10 players I would pick to build my team around before I get to Jimmy.

Name them.  And don't name the obvious guys.  Name guys who are on Jimmy's talent level .

[JayBirdHawk]

56 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

How many playoff series victories in his career?

I'mma guess 1?

49 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

I mean Jeff Teague has won more playoff series than Butler.

Damn Peo...back with a vengeance, I like it.