WOW !! ESPN has spoken

[Spud2nique]

2 hours ago, Gray Mule said:

Have we oversold ourselves?  We believe in our GM and we believe in what he's building.  We have observed how well his drafted players have preformed.  "He knows what he's doing" we keep telling ourselves.

Then, the criticizing begins.  Strangely enough, the player we here tend to ignore seems to be getting the most praise.  Crabbe is mentioned, over and over, as a great deal.  ???  Other players that were traded for all seem to fit into that ,"It doesn't matter.  They will make no difference."

Most all here believe in our three draft picks.  Yet, over and over, I read critical notes about all three.  First of all, Hunter cost too much.  That seems to be more about him than about his actual talent.  Personally, I believe that it was money and talent well spent.

Reddish is seen as mostly a steal.  Yet, because he wasn't a great star at Duke last winter, many feel that, although he eventually becomes a pretty good starter in the NBA, he will be just a very common wing.

Bruno they can live with since he was a second round pick and they don't expect a lot out of him.  Seemingly, everyone except most of us here, look on our center position as very weak.

Again, I ask.  Have we oversold ourselves?  Are we destined to be fighting to stay out of the basement in the east rather than striving for that last spot in the playoff standings?  Is it true that our returning core of young men will improve little, if at all?  Will the absence of Dedmon, Prince and Bazemore have such a negative effect on our Beloved Hawk team that they will not recover?

I dunno about you Gramps but I wouldn’t have it any other way. They’ve always doubted us. Proving the doubters wrong is a powerful feeling.  

[Vol4ever]

30 wins if we are lucky.   

Rose colored glasses for sure.  We have ZERO defense.  Maybe Hunter will help some but basically no one on the roster is interested in playing D.  Basically on offense we have Trae and Collins but not much else.   We are going to really struggle most of this upcoming season.  

[NBASupes]

3 hours ago, Vol4ever said:

30 wins if we are lucky.   

Rose colored glasses for sure.  We have ZERO defense.  Maybe Hunter will help some but basically no one on the roster is interested in playing D.  Basically on offense we have Trae and Collins but not much else.   We are going to really struggle most of this upcoming season.  

Zero defense, we were 27th with not one defensive player on the roster other than Bembry and Bazemore couldn't handle the role with John and Trae being on the court. 

 

We since added Cam Reddish, De'Andre Hunter, Turner, Jones and Bruno. I strongly would like to disagree with this assessment 

[AHF]

Not going to quote all of GM’s post but I’d say that reasonable minds can differ on how good we will be this season even if we agree on the upside and are super excited about our draft this year.  I think two people can both say we had a fantastic draft and that Trae, JC and Huerter will continue to make progress and that one can project 48 wins and the other low 30s.  It sometimes takes young cores time to learn to win.  

After drafting consecutive MVPs, OKC won 23 games.  MJ won 30 games his second season.  2 time MVP Steve Nash and NBA Champ and MVP Dirk won 19 games together in 1999.  Etc.

[Spud2nique]

54 minutes ago, AHF said:

After drafting consecutive MVPs, OKC won 23 games.  MJ won 30 games his second season.  2 time MVP Steve Nash and NBA Champ and MVP Dirk won 19 games together in 1999.  Etc.

All of this a start to something wonderful no doubt! We got next!

[hazer]

15 hours ago, Vol4ever said:

30 wins if we are lucky.   

Rose colored glasses for sure.  We have ZERO defense.  Maybe Hunter will help some but basically no one on the roster is interested in playing D.  Basically on offense we have Trae and Collins but not much else.   We are going to really struggle most of this upcoming season.  

Overly pessimistic analysis there, Vawl. Dark grey colored glasses for sure 

30 wins? Hawks were 2 seconds from winning 30 games LAST year. El-P, Ice TrATL, The Huert, J-Bap, and Oleksiy will all naturally continue to improve simply due to growth and experience. Added The Hunt to replace Fresh Printz and Code Reddish essentially replaces Gaze, both net positives. Len (still improving at age 25) was better than Dedmon (peaked at age 30) last year and will be getting his 25+ minutes starting. Yet Hawks will still just equal last year? 41 wins...

ZERO defense? The Hunt was the best defender in the draft and better defender than Printz, who he replaces. Reddish is 6’9 with a 7’1 wingspan and will be a better defender than Gaze, who he replaces. FeeNANdoooo was drafted for his tenacious D (11reb/2blk). DJ is a springy rim protector and essentially replaces Cal’Omari/Dedmon, a defensive net positive. D definitely needed to get more tenacious, and it has. Improves to almost average...

Trae and Collins on offense but not much else? Huerter’s 3-ball on line 1. Crabbe’s 3-ball on line 2. Hunter’s 3-ball on line 3. Len’s 16/8/1 plus 3-ball on line 4. Ooop City on line 5. Top half offense in the league...

Really struggle most of the season? Given, extremely rough schedule until all-star break. Trae/Huert/Hunt/Collins/Len are gonna sneak up on some teams, Trae/Huert/Cam/Hunt/Collins are gonna shock some other teams and blow them out of the gym. True, still young, still learning, not there yet, will be growing pains. .500 ball...

Allow yourself to enjoy this season, Vawl. It’s gonna be very fun to watch

Edited August 17, 2019 by hazer

[Gray Mule]

If only the Hawks had a good defensive minded head coach..  Oh, yeah, they do!  He hasn't stressed defense.  Had to get his life settled into being a head coach. 

Some of the players that were traded for are being overlooked in the grand scheme of things.  They may bring more than many of those "talking heads" we see believe.  Some of these guys aren't bad, not bad at all.

So many changes.  So many new players.  Traded players will be missed.  New rookies will, hopefully, play some decent defense.  They are big enough and seem to have the desire to make their name on that end of the court.

As Hazer said, "It's gonna be very fun to watch!"

[Thomas]

Still feel that even if the youngsters strong defense does not take hold for twenty or thirty games we will still break .500. We outscored the the league for weeks and Dedmon was not around for some of that. Mentioning him because thinking the biggest straight up loss for our roster is him and not Baze. Yeah, I know....not Jaylen Adams either. But....oh yeah....we still have that guy....Trae.

[Vol4ever]

5 hours ago, hazer said:

Overly pessimistic analysis there, Vawl. Dark grey colored glasses for sure 

30 wins? Hawks were 2 seconds from winning 30 games LAST year. El-P, Ice TrATL, The Huert, J-Bap, and Oleksiy will all naturally continue to improve simply due to growth and experience. Added The Hunt to replace Fresh Printz and Code Reddish essentially replaces Gaze, both net positives. Len (still improving at age 25) was better than Dedmon (peaked at age 30) last year and will be getting his 25+ minutes starting. Yet Hawks will still just equal last year? 41 wins...

ZERO defense? The Hunt was the best defender in the draft and better defender than Printz, who he replaces. Reddish is 6’9 with a 7’1 wingspan and will be a better defender than Gaze, who he replaces. FeeNANdoooo was drafted for his tenacious D (11reb/2blk). DJ is a springy rim protector and essentially replaces Cal’Omari/Dedmon, a defensive net positive. D definitely needed to get more tenacious, and it has. Improves to almost average...

Trae and Collins on offense but not much else? Huerter’s 3-ball on line 1. Crabbe’s 3-ball on line 2. Hunter’s 3-ball on line 3. Len’s 16/8/1 plus 3-ball on line 4. Ooop City on line 5. Top half offense in the league...

Really struggle most of the season? Given, extremely rough schedule until all-star break. Trae/Huert/Hunt/Collins/Len are gonna sneak up on some teams, Trae/Huert/Cam/Hunt/Collins are gonna shock some other teams and blow them out of the gym. True, still young, still learning, not there yet, will be growing pains. .500 ball...

Allow yourself to enjoy this season, Vawl. It’s gonna be very fun to watch

Oh I hope you are right and I'm dead wrong.   I have to see if to believe it.  

[Eddielives]

6 hours ago, hazer said:

Overly pessimistic analysis there, Vawl. Dark grey colored glasses for sure 

30 wins? Hawks were 2 seconds from winning 30 games LAST year. El-P, Ice TrATL, The Huert, J-Bap, and Oleksiy will all naturally continue to improve simply due to growth and experience. Added The Hunt to replace Fresh Printz and Code Reddish essentially replaces Gaze, both net positives. Len (still improving at age 25) was better than Dedmon (peaked at age 30) last year and will be getting his 25+ minutes starting. Yet Hawks will still just equal last year? 41 wins...

ZERO defense? The Hunt was the best defender in the draft and better defender than Printz, who he replaces. Reddish is 6’9 with a 7’1 wingspan and will be a better defender than Gaze, who he replaces. FeeNANdoooo was drafted for his tenacious D (11reb/2blk). DJ is a springy rim protector and essentially replaces Cal’Omari/Dedmon, a defensive net positive. D definitely needed to get more tenacious, and it has. Improves to almost average...

Trae and Collins on offense but not much else? Huerter’s 3-ball on line 1. Crabbe’s 3-ball on line 2. Hunter’s 3-ball on line 3. Len’s 16/8/1 plus 3-ball on line 4. Ooop City on line 5. Top half offense in the league...

Really struggle most of the season? Given, extremely rough schedule until all-star break. Trae/Huert/Hunt/Collins/Len are gonna sneak up on some teams, Trae/Huert/Cam/Hunt/Collins are gonna shock some other teams and blow them out of the gym. True, still young, still learning, not there yet, will be growing pains. .500 ball...

Allow yourself to enjoy this season, Vawl. It’s gonna be very fun to watch

Who are "EI-P and Oleksiy?"

[hazer]

1 hour ago, Eddielives said:

Who are "EI-P and Oleksiy?"

Coach “LP”, Lloyd Pierce. Oleksiy is Alex’s real name

[hazer]

3 minutes ago, hazer said:

Coach “LP”, Lloyd Pierce. Oleksiy is Alex’s real name

As in “Alexi”, he’s Ukrainian  

[NBASupes]

11 hours ago, AHF said:

Not going to quote all of GM’s post but I’d say that reasonable minds can differ on how good we will be this season even if we agree on the upside and are super excited about our draft this year.  I think two people can both say we had a fantastic draft and that Trae, JC and Huerter will continue to make progress and that one can project 48 wins and the other low 30s.  It sometimes takes young cores time to learn to win.  

After drafting consecutive MVPs, OKC won 23 games.  MJ won 30 games his second season.  2 time MVP Steve Nash and NBA Champ and MVP Dirk won 19 games together in 1999.  Etc.

Not buying the 2nd paragraph for one minute. 

OKC won 55 games in Westbrook's 2nd season which was Harden's rookie year. 

Jordan played only 18 games in his 2nd season and started 7 games due to an ACL injury.

Dirk year 1 was ass, there year 2 is really Trae's year 1 as that's when they showcased talent. Dirk was basically like a HS into the pros. He was 18 years old as a rookie and 19, Trae's age as a 2nd year pro. His 3rd year is more indicative for him.

Nash 2nd year, he won 56 games as a backup PG to Kidd for the PHX Suns.  

We should talk about comp players. For Trae, that's Payton, Kidd, Zeke, Stockton, Kyrie, Steph, Lillard, CP3

Payton 2nd year: 47 wins after 41 wins as a rookie. 

Kidd's 2nd year: 26 wins after 36 wins as a rookie and 13 wins the year before that, Kidd completely changed the org but his 2nd year was ruined. This year can only be labeled the Toni Braxton season. Look it up

Zeke 2nd year: 37 wins after 37 wins as a rookie. Coach was fired and Chuck Daly, HOF coach was hired. 

Stockton: 42 wins after 41 wins as a rookie. Was an end of bench player on both teams. 

Kyrie: 24 wins after 21 wins as a rookie

Steph: 36 wins after 26 wins as a rookie

Lillard: 54 wins after 33 wins as a rookie

CP3: 39 wins after 38 wins as a rookie. The team won 13 games the season before he joined with no major additions. He basically carried a tank squad to 15 extra wins by himself. 

 

Considering it's Trae/Kevin/Collins and they get along and none of them is dating Toni Braxton. I like our chances to be more like POR and SEA than DAL. 

Since we actually have talent outside of Trae, I don't expect us to be like NO, DET

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Spud2nique]

2 hours ago, hazer said:

As in “Alexi”, he’s Ukrainian  

Not to be mistaken with the original Ukrainian Vitaly Potapenko! Yeaaahhh baby! 

[turnermx]

22 hours ago, hazer said:

As in “Alexi”, he’s Ukrainian  

Oleksiy is correct in Ukrainian language spelling, sounds the same as Russian Aleksiy

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

I don't think that estimate is that far off.  I'd give the Hawks 35 wins max for this season.

[AHF]

On 8/17/2019 at 8:15 PM, NBASupes said:

We should talk about comp players. For Trae, that's Payton, Kidd, Zeke, Stockton, Kyrie, Steph, Lillard, CP3

Payton 2nd year: 47 wins after 41 wins as a rookie. 

Kidd's 2nd year: 26 wins after 36 wins as a rookie and 13 wins the year before that, Kidd completely changed the org but his 2nd year was ruined. This year can only be labeled the Toni Braxton season. Look it up

Zeke 2nd year: 37 wins after 37 wins as a rookie. Coach was fired and Chuck Daly, HOF coach was hired. 

Stockton: 42 wins after 41 wins as a rookie. Was an end of bench player on both teams. 

Kyrie: 24 wins after 21 wins as a rookie

Steph: 36 wins after 26 wins as a rookie

Lillard: 54 wins after 33 wins as a rookie

CP3: 39 wins after 38 wins as a rookie. The team won 13 games the season before he joined with no major additions. He basically carried a tank squad to 15 extra wins by himself. 

 

Considering it's Trae/Kevin/Collins and they get along and none of them is dating Toni Braxton. I like our chances to be more like POR and SEA than DAL. 

Since we actually have talent outside of Trae, I don't expect us to be like NO, DET

 

The improvement those players had would translate to these win totals for us for us:

35 (6 win improvement for GP = 29 wins + 6 wins = 35 wins)

19

29

30

32

39

50

30

 

So the median record for us with those same levels of improvement would be: 31 wins

The average record for us with those same levels of improvement would be:  33 wins

 

(The first winning record that Nash or Dirk had as starters came in their 4th and 3rd years, respectively).

[Sothron]

If you guys think 31 wins is a way too low what do you think we are going to do?

I think 31 might be a little but 36-40 sounds right.

[Thomas]

So much of this stuff has been based on one player (the pg), it is a team sport and am expecting improvement from within at three positions (especially pg), possibly four, and then the rooks with better defense from a very strong draft for us. Think we squeeze into the playoffs and don't know about anything after that. Granted Trae may actually have to play forty plus a game down the stretch. No injuries please.   

[Spud2nique]

I revealed a number earlier but thought and tinkering with a new number. I dunno we are like 2 months away. I’ll wait till then. I do think that BSPN and Vegas lol and anyone else that exists seems to be lowballing us. Either that or I’m highballing us because I’m a biased Hawks fan. I honestly try to pretend to go in as a neutral party and still like our win total above a 31. Was that ur number Soth? I mean gambling on a teams win total is harder than it seems. Usually people tend to go on either of the extremes as far as ceiling of wins or floor and never seem to take the mean of the extremes. 

 

Also, it’s tough to gage how much chemistry 🧪 these players and teams made over the summer and are currently making. 

I’m gonna wait on a win total. But it’s fair to say that if things work out and we win some and lose some we should still have a window to look forward to the playoffs which is a breath of fresh air. Last year I wasn’t stressed wanting us to win some then drop some for lottery odds and watching the Mavs a ton . This year there is ☝ goal as their always will be from here on out:

 

THE PLAYOFFS !!!!!!!!!