KB's thoughts on team building

[KB21]

Just now, macdaddy said:

I"m not going to let this slide.  Even if you accept the theory that Miami is a contender this year (which is very suspect).   They are on year SIX of their "retooling" with vets.   This is very weak. 

They haven't spent years in the lottery either.  The only "lottery" pick they have had during this time frame is Bam Adebayo.  

Toronto is another example.  They lost Leonard this off season.  Did they tank?  No.  They are still top 3 in the East, ahead of those mighty 76ers.

[macdaddy]

1 minute ago, KB21 said:

They haven't spent years in the lottery either.  The only "lottery" pick they have had during this time frame is Bam Adebayo.  

Toronto is another example.  They lost Leonard this off season.  Did they tank?  No.  They are still top 3 in the East, ahead of those mighty 76ers.

Miami made the playoffs 2 of the last 5 years.  weak

Toronto had built a east contending team already without Kawhi.  You know that.  But good avoidance.

[KB21]

5 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Miami made the playoffs 2 of the last 5 years.  weak

Toronto had built a east contending team already without Kawhi.  You know that.  But good avoidance.

It's not avoidance.  It's a fact that championship teams are not built through the draft, or I should say by intentionally being bad.

Edited February 5, 2020 by KB21

[macdaddy]

Just now, KB21 said:

It's not avoidance.  It's a fact that championship teams are not built through the draft, or I should say by intentionally being bad.

Obviously we're never going to agree on this but Miami?  How has their path been any quicker than a total rebuild?  

[Thomas]

How soon we forget the eighties huh.  

[KB21]

1 minute ago, Thomas said:

How soon we forget the eighties huh.  

How soon we forget how long it took to make the playoffs after they decided to tear down the 1998 team.

[KB21]

6 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Obviously we're never going to agree on this but Miami?  How has their path been any quicker than a total rebuild?  

They didn't tank.  They stayed competitive.  

[Thomas]

34 minutes ago, KB21 said:

How soon we forget how long it took to make the playoffs after they decided to tear down the 1998 team.

The Celtics, Lakers and Pistons was my point about drafting in the eighties.

[REHawksFan]

8 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I"m not going to let this slide.  Even if you accept the theory that Miami is a contender this year (which is very suspect).   They are on year SIX of their "retooling" with vets.   This is very weak. 

I was gonna say. The idea of using Miami as some hyper-efficient way to rebuild a roster is dumb. Consider:

• 2013-2014: Won 54 games / Lost in NBA Championship / LBJ leaves to go back to Cleveland
• 2014-2015: Year 1 of "Retooling" Won 37 games / Missed Playoffs
• 2015-2016: Year 2 of "Retooling" Won 48 games / 3rd Seed / Lost in 2nd Round
• 2016-2017: Year 3 of "Retooling" Won 41 games / Missed Playoffs
• 2017-2018: Year 4 of "Retooling" Won 44 games / 6th Seed / Lost in 1st Round
• 2018-2019: Year 5 of "Retooling" Won 39 games / Missed Playoffs
• 2019-2020: Year 6 of "Retooling" On Pace to Win 57 Games / Currently 4th Seed / Playoff Result TBD

So KB's "Model" plan for a rebuild / retooling has resulted in missing the playoffs 3 of 5 years and winning a combined 1 playoff series. They spent 5 years without being a threat to compete for an NBA title.  

The Hawks were never as good as the 13-14 Heat that lost in the NBA Finals. Even in their 60-win season they weren't an elite team as they got swept by LBJ and the Cavs. 

Hawks:

• 2017-2018: Year 1 of "Tanking Rebuild" Won 24 games / Missed Playoffs / Drafted Trae at 5 and Kevin at 19
• 2018-2019: Year 2 of "Tanking Rebuild" Won 29 games / Missed Playoffs / Drafted Hunter at 4 and Cam at 10
• 2019-2020: Year 3 of "Tanking Rebuild" On Pace to Win 21 Games / Missed Playoffs / Draft TBD

So even using KB's "Model" franchise, the Hawks way still has 2 more years prior to being where the Heat are this year for them to be equitable. I like the Hawks the chances of getting there with the moves they are making. 

 

 

 

[NBASupes]

21 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Turner and Sabonis are both better fits alongside John because of their ability to space the floor.  IMO, the Hawks should have offered their own first round pick to Indiana for Myles Turner to pair with John Collins.  I know Indiana apparently asked for John in the initial talks, but Travis should have floated that pick that will end up being used on a player that will not help the team win in 2021.  

Turner is a better fit for John, Sabonis is a much worse fit than Capela and it's not close.

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

I was gonna say. The idea of using Miami as some hyper-efficient way to rebuild a roster is dumb. Consider:

• 2013-2014: Won 54 games / Lost in NBA Championship / LBJ leaves to go back to Cleveland
• 2014-2015: Year 1 of "Retooling" Won 37 games / Missed Playoffs
• 2015-2016: Year 2 of "Retooling" Won 48 games / 3rd Seed / Lost in 2nd Round
• 2016-2017: Year 3 of "Retooling" Won 41 games / Missed Playoffs
• 2017-2018: Year 4 of "Retooling" Won 44 games / 6th Seed / Lost in 1st Round
• 2018-2019: Year 5 of "Retooling" Won 39 games / Missed Playoffs
• 2019-2020: Year 6 of "Retooling" On Pace to Win 57 Games / Currently 4th Seed / Playoff Result TBD

So KB's "Model" plan for a rebuild / retooling has resulted in missing the playoffs 3 of 5 years and winning a combined 1 playoff series. They spent 5 years without being a threat to compete for an NBA title.  

The Hawks were never as good as the 13-14 Heat that lost in the NBA Finals. Even in their 60-win season they weren't an elite team as they got swept by LBJ and the Cavs. 

Hawks:

• 2017-2018: Year 1 of "Tanking Rebuild" Won 24 games / Missed Playoffs / Drafted Trae at 5 and Kevin at 19
• 2018-2019: Year 2 of "Tanking Rebuild" Won 29 games / Missed Playoffs / Drafted Hunter at 4 and Cam at 10
• 2019-2020: Year 3 of "Tanking Rebuild" On Pace to Win 21 Games / Missed Playoffs / Draft TBD

So even using KB's "Model" franchise, the Hawks way still has 2 more years prior to being where the Heat are this year for them to be equitable. I like the Hawks the chances of getting there with the moves they are making. 

 

 

 

Hard for most NBA teams to use the Heat model especially in the eastern conference as Miami has special players willing to do whatever to join the Heat which has never been the case here.

KB plan always fails because market value is based on star or city. If you don't have one or both, you will likely have to be excellent and extremely lucky

Edited February 5, 2020 by NBASupes

[KB21]

Just now, REHawksFan said:

I was gonna say. The idea of using Miami as some hyper-efficient way to rebuild a roster is dumb. Consider:

• 2013-2014: Won 54 games / Lost in NBA Championship / LBJ leaves to go back to Cleveland
• 2014-2015: Year 1 of "Retooling" Won 37 games / Missed Playoffs
• 2015-2016: Year 2 of "Retooling" Won 48 games / 3rd Seed / Lost in 2nd Round
• 2016-2017: Year 3 of "Retooling" Won 41 games / Missed Playoffs
• 2017-2018: Year 4 of "Retooling" Won 44 games / 6th Seed / Lost in 1st Round
• 2018-2019: Year 5 of "Retooling" Won 39 games / Missed Playoffs
• 2019-2020: Year 6 of "Retooling" On Pace to Win 57 Games / Currently 4th Seed / Playoff Result TBD

So KB's "Model" plan for a rebuild / retooling has resulted in missing the playoffs 3 of 5 years and winning a combined 1 playoff series. They spent 5 years without being a threat to compete for an NBA title.  

The Hawks were never as good as the 13-14 Heat that lost in the NBA Finals. Even in their 60-win season they weren't an elite team as they got swept by LBJ and the Cavs. 

Hawks:

• 2017-2018: Year 1 of "Tanking Rebuild" Won 24 games / Missed Playoffs / Drafted Trae at 5 and Kevin at 19
• 2018-2019: Year 2 of "Tanking Rebuild" Won 29 games / Missed Playoffs / Drafted Hunter at 4 and Cam at 10
• 2019-2020: Year 3 of "Tanking Rebuild" On Pace to Win 21 Games / Missed Playoffs / Draft TBD

So even using KB's "Model" franchise, the Hawks way still has 2 more years prior to being where the Heat are this year for them to be equitable. I like the Hawks the chances of getting there with the moves they are making. 

 

 

 

So, you think the Hawks will be legitimate championship contenders within five years of their tank season?  Unless they add significant vets, they aren't even going to be a playoff team five years from their initial tank season.  

Miami, on the other hand, is probably the 2nd best team in the Eastern Conference now and a legitimate contender to make the finals this year.

[REHawksFan]

Just now, KB21 said:

So, you think the Hawks will be legitimate championship contenders within five years of their tank season?  Unless they add significant vets, they aren't even going to be a playoff team five years from their initial tank season.  

Miami, on the other hand, is probably the 2nd best team in the Eastern Conference now and a legitimate contender to make the finals this year.

I don't think anyone believes the Heat are a legitimate NBA Title contender this year but you. EVEN SO, that gives the Hawks two more full years prior to their 5th season removed from their tank season. 

 

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, KB21 said:

So, you think the Hawks will be legitimate championship contenders within five years of their tank season?  Unless they add significant vets, they aren't even going to be a playoff team five years from their initial tank season.  

Miami, on the other hand, is probably the 2nd best team in the Eastern Conference now and a legitimate contender to make the finals this year.

100% I do.

Why?

Trae Young offensive gravity

This team goes as Cam Reddish goes, he's our most special talent and the only two way potential star on the roster.

Hunter is finally going to be able to do his role effectively due to Capela 

Collins will learn what his role will be moving forward. 

Positions get locked into. 

Etc.

This team should be a contender in the east next year. No doubt about it.

[JayBirdHawk]

I can't believe allya are still going down this long ass winding rabbit hole....Again. 

Nothing new is being said by KB, the same things he said 3 years ago, 2 years ago, last year, this year.

A glutten for punishment!!

[macdaddy]

Just now, JayBirdHawk said:

I can't believe allya are still going down this long ass winding rabbit hole....Again. 

A glutten for punishment!!

Just wait until the trade deadline is over and there is even less to talk about.  

The Heat Retooling:  (oh! so close)

[REHawksFan]

10 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

This team goes as Cam Reddish goes, he's our most special talent and the only two way potential star on the roster.

Excited to see how Cam develops over the last 2 months of the season and the summer. I have seen glimpses of his elite potential this year on offense to pair with his very good defense. Unfortunately, those glimpses have been more like a play or 2 during an entire game. But he has flashed a few things (ability to get to the rim and finish, a nice shot from the perimeter, etc...) from time to time. 

 

 

[KB21]

55 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I can't believe allya are still going down this long ass winding rabbit hole....Again. 

Nothing new is being said by KB, the same things he said 3 years ago, 2 years ago, last year, this year.

A glutten for punishment!!

...and I was right then.  I'm right again now.  

[KB21]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

100% I do.

Why?

Trae Young offensive gravity

This team goes as Cam Reddish goes, he's our most special talent and the only two way potential star on the roster.

Hunter is finally going to be able to do his role effectively due to Capela 

Collins will learn what his role will be moving forward. 

Positions get locked into. 

Etc.

This team should be a contender in the east next year. No doubt about it.

So, you are basically relying upon something happening that is so unlikely to actually happen it shouldn't even be considered part of the plan, and that's Cam Reddish developing into a 2 way super star player.  The Hawks will be lucky if he develops to be an average 3 and D wing by next season.  Right now, he has a long way to go.  He's bad.  He was bad in college and is bad as a rookie.  It's foolish to expect someone who has never played well on a consistent basis at a level above AAU to suddenly become this elite player.  

That doesn't even touch how constipated the offense is probably going to be with Capela and Collins clogging the lane up for each other as well as for Trae.  

[REHawksFan]

3 minutes ago, KB21 said:

...and I was right then.  I'm right again now.