How do we get another 2020 1st (Non-Lotto)

[Peoriabird]

39 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

If Schlenk thought we'd be a playoff team with the moves he made last offseaon then sure, he was delusional.

But the priority for us has been developing our draft picks, which we've been very successful doing. John is great, Trae is great, Kevin should be better, Cam and DeAndre had solid rookie campaigns.

 

So other teams were playing their young players during their rookie campaigns like Memphis?

[marco102]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

Good illustration.  Don started off as a GM with the #1 overall pick in the 1977 draft.  He selected Kent Benson at #1.  Benson finished his career as the #17 player from the draft in career win shares, an undoubted disappointment for such a premium pick.

The next year he picked George Johnson at #12 overall who finished #21 overall in WS.

You can keep going but all of these guys miss picks.  If you don't miss picks, it is because you aren't picking.

****

Masai Ujiri has been an outstanding GM but you can certainly see he hasn't optimized all his picks. 

He passed on Jimmy Butler in 2011 to take Kenneth Faried. 

He passed on Draymond Green and Khris Middleton in 2012 to take Evan Fournier. 

He took Bruno Caboclo to pass on Jokic, Clint Capela among many, many others who were better choices.  

I can keep going on the first rounders but the second rounders are no shock here either:

Here are his second round choices in order:

Quincy Miller

İzzet Türkyılmaz

DeAndre Daniels

Xavier Thames

Dewan Hernandez

Is that a murderer's row of amazing talent?

I'm sure I'm missing a pick he traded for or something but it isn't like anyone has a high hit rate on second rounders.  It is extremely rare for a GM to even have a high hit rate on first rounders!

 

TS has proven himself as a drafter to me.  It is the rest of the roster building where he needs to prove himself.

Stop you silly goose!  It'll stop my rage posting to get attention from the board. 

[Peoriabird]

13 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

If I had to guess considering the money this year. That the Hawks will end up with 3 1st rounders going into the draft and likely only have two by the end of the night. I think Aaron Nesmith is be the Hawks main target. Probably will trade with PHX to get him.

Cause that's all Schlenk is competent at and even when he does accumulate a bunch of high picks, his team still is one of the worst in the league.  Can someone explain how that is an above average performance?

[AHF]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

I am sick of the excuses for this dude!!  He passed on Mitchell Robinson, Devonte's Graham, Bol Bol for no reason!  When are y'all going to hold this guy accountable?  The guy acquired a million 2nd round pick only to sell them or pick good players for other teams.  Hold him accountable instead of making excuses for him!

I don't understand what you want to hold him accountable for.

He has built tanking teams by design the last few years so holding him accountable for W/L record would be kind of silly when the team is built with the intent of losing. 

Holding him accountable for trades is fair within that context.  I don't think he's maximized value on those but expect most of those trades would be dump deals where we get picks per our tanking plan so I'm not going to judge them on whether Carmelo Anthony was better for us than Dennis Schroder.  

Holding him accountable for FA seems premature when we haven't done much in FA by design.  That won't be the case this summer when it will be on him to build our talent and depth in a way we would never do during a tank rebuild.

That brings us to drafting where I've made the case that focusing on second round picks is a very poor method of judging drafting acumen.  If you concur with this and agree that TS has overall done an outstanding job of drafting then I did not understand that from your prior posts on this thread and we are in agreement.

[AHF]

13 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Cause that's all Schlenk is competent at and even when he does accumulate a bunch of high picks, his team still is one of the worst in the league.  Can someone explain how that is an above average performance?

When TS was hired by ownership, they mutually agreed on a plan to suck for several years while accumulating talent in the draft and clearing the books of bad long-term contracts.  He has implemented the plan he agreed on with the ownership.  If we had won games the last few years that prevented us from getting good lottery picks, that would not have been according to plan.  

This year, we intend to win as many games as possible.  If we don't very substantially improve that will be very good reason to bash TS.

TS hasn't proven himself to be an above average GM.  He has proven to be an above average drafter but the rest of the job of a GM has largely been put on hold while we tanked.  

[JayBirdHawk]

39 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

If I had to guess considering the money this year. That the Hawks will end up with 3 1st rounders going into the draft and likely only have two by the end of the night. I think Aaron Nesmith is be the Hawks main target. Probably will trade with PHX to get him.

Woah....3 - 2020 1st rounders????

Phoenix has #10, what are we trading to get that? Or are we trading down from #6?

[thecampster]

I'm thinking Deni keeps rising as teams try to capture some Doncic magic. Here's to hoping he pushes someone good down.

[NBASupes]

26 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Woah....3 - 2020 1st rounders????

Phoenix has #10, what are we trading to get that? Or are we trading down from #6?

They will keep #6. They will use the other 1sts to get Neismith 

Edited August 24, 2020 by NBASupes

[JayBirdHawk]

12 minutes ago, thecampster said:

I'm thinking Deni keeps rising as teams try to capture some Doncic magic. Here's to hoping he pushes someone good down.

Deni playing additional games has only helped him. Meanwhile the college guys haven't played since February.

[JayBirdHawk]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

They will keep #6. They will use the other 1sts to get Neismith 

So how are we getting to Phoenix at #10? Which 2 firsts are we getting to trade to Suns?

[NBASupes]

8 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

So how are we getting to Phoenix at #10? Which 2 firsts are we getting to trade to Suns?

This is my prediction FYI. 

Nets #19 pick and Boston's #26 pick for 10 but honestly, I can see #19 for #10 and Oubre who PHX wants out of his deal.

[Peoriabird]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

I don't understand what you want to hold him accountable for.

He has built tanking teams by design the last few years so holding him accountable for W/L record would be kind of silly when the team is built with the intent of losing. 

 

So he was trying to lose this year?  For who in this draft?  So let me get this straight...We were trying to lose this year and have cap room?  Does a competent GM really think that some winning players wants his money to come to a losing situation unless he severely overpays?  Who is this magical transformative draft pick he was tanking for.  Plus it didn't work anyway he still ended up with the 6th pick and most likely a role player.  Is that how you build a winner?

[JayBirdHawk]

4 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

This is my prediction FYI. 

Nets #19 pick and Boston's #26 pick for 10 but honestly, I can see #19 for #10 and Oubre who PHX wants out of his deal.

I mentioned the Prince and #19 deal earlier, but I don't think that gets us to #10 even with #26. It'll be more like #14 and #19 to move to #10.

Phoenix wants out of the Oubre deal that bad to use #10? That seems high for an expiring.

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

This is my prediction FYI. 

Nets #19 pick and Boston's #26 pick for 10 but honestly, I can see #19 for #10 and Oubre who PHX wants out of his deal.

Before you ask:

1. Brooklyn trades Prince and #19 for a future 2nd rounder and the rights to Marcus Eriksson 

2. Boston trades Enes Kanter and #26 for cash considerations (3 million) and the rights to Alpha Kaba. Atlanta cuts Enes Kanter once the trade is completed.

[NBASupes]

7 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I mentioned the Prince and #19 deal earlier, but I don't think that gets us to #10 even with #26. It'll be more like #14 and #19 to move to #10.

Phoenix wants out of the Oubre deal that bad to use #10? That seems high for an expiring.

I don't know if it will or wouldn't. Considering how the industry feels about Oubre, I wouldn't be surprised that flipping his 2020 salary would have more value than #26 to PHX. Hawks got options. Just knowing what we want, shooting is a premium.

Not sure it does but I know his personality hasn't rubbed people in PHX right or Washington or Kansas.

Edited August 24, 2020 by NBASupes

[thecampster]

39 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Before you ask:

1. Brooklyn trades Prince and #19 for a future 2nd rounder and the rights to Marcus Eriksson 

2. Boston trades Enes Kanter and #26 for cash considerations (3 million) and the rights to Alpha Kaba. Atlanta cuts Enes Kanter once the trade is completed.

Kanter is on a player option. The season has ended for Atlanta and Kanter can't be traded for players during the playoff run. Once their season ends, the team cannot trade him until after he opts in.  This one isn't going to work and he certainly isn't going to opt in knowing he'll be waived. Its the same situation for him. Its why he wasn't mentioned in my "The Pitts" segment.

Edited August 24, 2020 by thecampster

[NBASupes]

18 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Kanter is on a player option. The season has ended for Atlanta and Kanter can't be traded for players during the playoff run. Once their season ends, the team cannot trade him until after he opts in.  This one isn't going to work and he certainly isn't going to opt in knowing he'll be waived. Its the same situation for him. Its why he wasn't mentioned in my "The Pitts" segment.

Not exactly. Usually the player option deadline is before the draft. If he opts out, he will be a FA anyway but why would he do that knowing he will get 5 million free dollars?

Right now, the Hawks can't do any trade. Any trade cannot be done till the 2020-21 calendar offseason.

Edited August 24, 2020 by NBASupes

[JayBirdHawk]

7 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Not exactly. Usually the player option deadline is before the draft. If he opts out, he will be a FA anyway but why would he do that knowing he will get 5 million free dollars?

Right now, the Hawks can't do any trade. Any trade cannot be done till the 2020-21 calendar offseason.

I thinks it's usually after the draft but before FA.

[NBASupes]

7 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I thinks it's usually after the draft but before FA.

You're right but you and @thecampster. AD option is OCT 14 though 

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2020/06/new-dates-set-for-option-decisions-salary-guarantees-more.html#:~:text=For instance%2C as Shams Charania,17 instead of June 29.

Edited August 24, 2020 by NBASupes

[AHF]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

So he was trying to lose this year?  For who in this draft?  So let me get this straight...We were trying to lose this year and have cap room?  Does a competent GM really think that some winning players wants his money to come to a losing situation unless he severely overpays?  Who is this magical transformative draft pick he was tanking for.  Plus it didn't work anyway he still ended up with the 6th pick and most likely a role player.  Is that how you build a winner?

Assuming the JC was eligible to play and the team was reasonably healthy, TS built the team expecting to win 30 games or at a 36.5% winning rate.  With JC out for a month and some extended injuries, we actually won at a 30% rate.  I'd put that pretty much right on par for what was expected.  That resulted in us being the #4 seed in the lottery.  Winning 30 games would have put us in the top 6 worst teams based on final records for the 2018-19 season.

I feel like we've talked about this team being built to lose before now.  That was the plan for several years while we accumulated young talent and gave heavy minutes to our young players to develop that talent.  Before we draft, we saw significant to dramatic improvements from all of our young players last season other than Huerter.  So even if the pick ends up being junk, the notion of losing while your young players gain experience seems like it was right on plan. The plan Ressler hired TS to execute.  

Whether it is a good idea to tank and rebuild or not can be picked back up in the massive tanking thread that has fallen back aways into the Squawk files.  But I think we clearly and deliberately chose to go down that road so judging a GM as if we didn't doesn't make much sense to me. 

Executing a plan to lose, however, doesn't make you a good GM.  Anyone can do that.  Getting the young players you need to ascend is the key during this time and if you miss on those picks things get real ugly.  The one thing he has been trying to do in the meantime is draft good young talent.  I judge him a success on that element of his job so far.  That will become less important going forward, although it remains important for every team.  Now TS has the responsibility to build a roster with the goal of making the playoffs.  That will be a first for him and we can judge how successful or not that he is at building a winning roster.