How do we get another 2020 1st (Non-Lotto)

[JayBirdHawk]

17 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

You're right but you and @thecampster. AD option is OCT 14 though 

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2020/06/new-dates-set-for-option-decisions-salary-guarantees-more.html#:~:text=For instance%2C as Shams Charania,17 instead of June 29.

Huh. Interesting. I wonder why ADs is before the draft.

[Peoriabird]

4 minutes ago, AHF said:

Assuming the JC was eligible to play and the team was reasonably healthy, TS built the team expecting to win 30 games or at a 36.5% winning rate.  With JC out for a month and some extended injuries, we actually won at a 30% rate.  I'd put that pretty much right on par for what was expected.  That resulted in us being the #4 seed in the lottery.  Winning 30 games would have put us in the top 6 worst teams based on final records for the 2018-19 season.

I feel like we've talked about this team being built to lose before now.  That was the plan for several years while we accumulated young talent and gave heavy minutes to our young players to develop that talent.  Before we draft, we saw significant to dramatic improvements from all of our young players last season other than Huerter.  So even if the pick ends up being junk, the notion of losing while your young players gain experience seems like it was right on plan. The plan Ressler hired TS to execute.  

The question is why???  Why do you build a team to lose when the benefit isn't there meaning that there isn't a player in the draft that will impact your team more than a low level free agent.  Please answer that question!

[AHF]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

The question is why???  Why do you build a team to lose when the benefit isn't there meaning that there isn't a player in the draft that will impact your team more than a low level free agent.  Please answer that question!

#1 - It gives lots of minutes to your young players.  On a competitive team, Cam might have played himself into the G-League for the rest of the season but he ended up making huge strides and becoming an impact player his last few months.

#2 - Even in a down year, you can get impact players.  The 2006 draft was a very weak one with Bargnani going #1.  Nevertheless, you had guys like Lamarcus Aldridge, Brandon Roy, Rajon Rondo, Kyle Lowry, Paul Millsap, Rudy Gay and others who ended up being valuable members of winning (and sometimes championship) teams.  Presumably, the plan was to spend this year feeding our young guys minutes while simultaneously getting in the lottery one last time before trying to win.  You can take that lotto pick and the other picks you've acquired and trade them for vets, keep picks, trade down, trade up - whatever you think makes sense based on what you've seen from the guys you drafted.  

TS started taking steps toward a winning lineup last season after our lottery position was assured by using one of those draft assets we stacked up during the tank to add Clint Capela.  That closed a huge hole on our roster, imo.  Now we've got the #6 pick as well as cap space and other assets to add more talent to the roster before the start of next season.

[Peoriabird]

3 minutes ago, AHF said:

#1 - It gives lots of minutes to your young players.  On a competitive team, Cam might have played himself into the G-League for the rest of the season but he ended up making huge strides and becoming an impact player his last few months.

#2 - Even in a down year, you can get impact players.  The 2006 draft was a very weak one with Bargnani going #1.  Nevertheless, you had guys like Lamarcus Aldridge, Brandon Roy, Rajon Rondo, Kyle Lowry, Paul Millsap, Rudy Gay and others who ended up being valuable members of winning (and sometimes championship) teams.  Presumably, the plan was to spend this year feeding our young guys minutes while simultaneously getting in the lottery one last time before trying to win.  You can take that lotto pick and the other picks you've acquired and trade them for vets, keep picks, trade down, trade up - whatever you think makes sense based on what you've seen from the guys you drafted.  

TS started taking steps toward a winning lineup last season after our lottery position was assured by using one of those draft assets we stacked up during the tank to add Clint Capela.  That closed a huge hole on our roster, imo.  Now we've got the #6 pick as well as cap space and other assets to add more talent to the roster before the start of next season.

The Hawks weren't competitive because of their young players, They weren't competitive because of the bench and the lack of a starting center.  the notion that he trashed the team to develop young players is absolutely nonsense.  OKC, New Orleans, Memphis, Phoenix etc didn't trash their teams to develop their young players.  In fact, its better to have better vets on your team to teach winning vs bad vets teaching poor work ethic or just collecting a paycheck.  As far as tanking for the 6th pick, Schlenk almost tore the team apart especially when his young star player became fed up with the poor roster and poor coaching for very little gain.  I hope Schlenk is better going forward but this off season is more of the same, he should be in trouble along with LP.

[AHF]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

The Hawks weren't competitive because of their young players, They weren't competitive because of the bench and the lack of a starting center.  the notion that he trashed the team to develop young players is absolutely nonsense.  OKC, New Orleans, Memphis, Phoenix etc didn't trash their teams to develop their young players.  In fact, its better to have better vets on your team to teach winning vs bad vets teaching poor work ethic or just collecting a paycheck.  As far as tanking for the 6th pick, Schlenk almost tore the team apart especially when his young star player became fed up with the poor roster and poor coaching for very little gain.  I hope Schlenk is better going forward but this off season is more of the same, he should be in trouble along with LP.

I don't know what to tell you.   He publicly shared that the team was a 30 win team prior to the season and he clearly deliberately filled the team with players who would not threaten the playing time of the young guys.  They ended up being even worse than he projected in a number of cases but they were build with an intention to be back in the lottery.

If you want to talk about the philosophy of tanking versus trying to compete while you rebuild, I'd suggest this thread:

 

[NBASupes]

7 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

The Hawks weren't competitive because of their young players, They weren't competitive because of the bench and the lack of a starting center.  the notion that he trashed the team to develop young players is absolutely nonsense.  OKC, New Orleans, Memphis, Phoenix etc didn't trash their teams to develop their young players.  In fact, its better to have better vets on your team to teach winning vs bad vets teaching poor work ethic or just collecting a paycheck.  As far as tanking for the 6th pick, Schlenk almost tore the team apart especially when his young star player became fed up with the poor roster and poor coaching for very little gain.  I hope Schlenk is better going forward but this off season is more of the same, he should be in trouble along with LP.

That was true that Damian Jones, Alex Len, and Bruno Fernando wasn't the best center rotation and it was the worst. We got Dedmon back and added Capela. We did ourselves justice at that position. 

The bench will be handle this offseason and the draft.

Edited August 24, 2020 by NBASupes

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

 he clearly deliberately filled the team with players who would not threaten the playing time of the young guys. 

 

How does this explain the center position?

[Gray Mule]

Hawks were bad.  This is true.  We know.

But, they will be better next time around.  No one under a 25 game sentence, for example.  This killed any hope that we might have harbored about being good last season.

Those high priced players the Hawks traded for - We got them + assets - did us no good.  I thought they would be playing for a new contract and would be OK.  Nope.  Didn't work out that way, did it.

Hawks wrongly believed that their center position would be OK.  We all know how that worked out!  Before season's end, Atlanta obtained 2 new centers.  Capela has yet to play for us.  He's had plenty of time to heal and will be wanting to show everyone his many skills as a center.

Center was our weakest link.  We feel that this has been fixed.  Second was our bench with all those high priced vets that didn't want to be here and didn't do us any favors.  Will our bench be better?  You bet!

[AHF]

16 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

How does this explain the center position?

I was disappointed with what he gave us last year.  My own interpretation was that he believed Alex Len could step up and be a starter after putting up 20 & 10 per 36 with a 36% 3pt shot the prior year for us.  Len flopped right out of the gate and we then had to lean much more heavily on JC and Damian Jones.  JC ended up suspended for a month so that meant Jones and rookie second round pick Bruno Fernando were the next options.  He gave Jones a chance to succeed and (as many of us predicted) Jones flopped hard.  So we ended up with straight garbage at starting C until JC returned and clearly TS didn't intend for that to be the case given that he then traded for both Dedmon and Capela.  

In short, he short-changed the position in the off-season because we planned to be a lottery team and didn't want to invest in a long-term deal and then the combination of JC's injury and bad performance from the true centers on the roster combined to make it an unmitigated disaster.

On 12/9/2019 at 10:25 AM, AHF said:

I definitely think Schlenk came into this season expecting another lottery pick 

 

[Peoriabird]

Thus far, all Schlenk has proven is that he can assemble multiple lottery team while convincing the fan base that it will get better in the future if we draft enough lottery picks.  HE DONE A MASTERFUL CON JOB IN THAT REGARD.  It is yet to be determine whether he can assemble a winning team with a winning coaching staff.  Ferry proved his worth very early in the game.

[nathan2331]

2 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Thus far, all Schlenk has proven is that he can assemble multiple lottery team while convincing the fan base that it will get better in the future if were draft enough lottery picks.  HE DONE A MASTERFUL CON JOB IN THAT REGARD.  It is yet to be determine whether he can assemble a winning team with a winning coaching staff.  Ferry proved his worth very early in the game.

Do you want to win a championship or be a playoff team? We could've kept reconfiguring the team to keep making the playoffs. It's clear we were never going to win a ring though.

You can hate the strategy, but it's already produced results. We don't get Trae, Cam, Hunter and this #6 pick without losing a lot of games. I don't think Schlenk is the greatest GM of all time and he's made mistakes, but he's executed on the most difficult choices he's had to make. Adding the pieces to make us a playoff team shouldn't be so hard now because they're easier to acquire.

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, nathan2331 said:

Do you want to win a championship or be a playoff team? We could've kept reconfiguring the team to keep making the playoffs. It's clear we were never going to win a ring though.

You can hate the strategy, but it's already produced results. We don't get Trae, Cam, Hunter and this #6 pick without losing a lot of games. I don't think Schlenk is the greatest GM of all time and he's made mistakes, but he's executed on the most difficult choices he's had to make. Adding the pieces to make us a playoff team shouldn't be so hard now because they're easier to acquire.

I hate to get personal but I've been asking the same question the entire time but you want to answer a question that I've never asked.  I didn't asked why Schlenk tank last year or 2 years ago.  I asked what happened this season and how the #6 pick will in anyway helps this team win a championship over a low level free agent signing.  I've also asked how does losing lure free agents to want to sign here?  I've also pointed out that out side of the top 19 draft picks, none of the players drafted signed or traded for have been useful or championship grade since schlenk has been here.  So why are you defending this guy?

[AHF]

I think we're talking past each other at this point.  When you try to not trade or sign impact vets, you get guys who aren't championship quality.  That is foreseeable, predictable and intended.

When we came into last summer, I thought we might look to compete this year or look to go back into the lottery one last time.  When FA was done, it was clear we intended to go into the lottery again.  

Next year is when I now expect TS to start signing acquiring better quality pieces outside of the draft to make this team take big steps forward.  If he doesn't, I won't hesitate to criticize him for it.  But when you are doing dump trades for picks and signing placeholders to keep the roster spots warm, I don't bash the guy for not getting championship grade pieces.

[Peoriabird]

12 minutes ago, AHF said:

I think we're talking past each other at this point.  When you try to not trade or sign impact vets, you get guys who aren't championship quality.  That is foreseeable, predictable and intended.

When we came into last summer, I thought we might look to compete this year or look to go back into the lottery one last time.  When FA was done, it was clear we intended to go into the lottery again.  

Next year is when I now expect TS to start signing acquiring better quality pieces outside of the draft to make this team take big steps forward.  If he doesn't, I won't hesitate to criticize him for it.  But when you are doing dump trades for picks and signing placeholders to keep the roster spots warm, I don't bash the guy for not getting championship grade pieces.

Looking forward to welcoming you to the dark side!  Although I thought I had you after last off season but you let Schlenk convince you to stay in his camp by continuing to use terms like development and growth.

[NBASupes]

I know some people will hate it but if we land LaMelo, Prince, and Oubre (likely traded again). It's not that bad of an offseason for the bench considering it was 

Wallace 

Rookie Reddish

Turner

Parker

Jones 

Last year to start the season.

[marco102]

3 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I know some people will hate it but if we land LaMelo, Prince, and Oubre (likely traded again). It's not that bad of an offseason for the bench considering it was 

Wallace 

Rookie Reddish

Turner

Parker

Jones 

Last year to start the season.

If LaMelo falls to us, you make the pick in two seconds.  He has tons to work on, but too much potntial that at 6.  His facilitating should translate instantly.

Oubre is high energy and would be a solid bench piece.

Prince - wouldn't mind him back.  He's a good lockerroom guy,  but he'll need to start playing defense like his rookie year.

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, marco102 said:

If LaMelo falls to us, you make the pick in two seconds.  He has tons to work on, but too much potntial that at 6.  His facilitating should translate instantly.

Oubre is high energy and would be a solid bench piece.

Prince - wouldn't mind him back.  He's a good lockerroom guy,  but he'll need to start playing defense like his rookie year.

Prime Al Horford and Millsap protecting him ain't walking through that down game. 

I agree on Ball. I am not even that high on his floor but it's the bench so the best he's going up against is Ish Smith and D.J. Augustin. Most backup PGs aren't even good. 

Doubt Atlanta will want a high maintenance guy like Oubre. He will be on the first plane packing. 

Edited August 25, 2020 by NBASupes

[terrell]

On 8/23/2020 at 10:37 PM, Spud2nique said:

Thank you  

Trae 3rd year

Huerter 3rd year

Cam 2nd year

Hunter 2nd year

Collins 4th year

Bruno 2nd year

Capela 7th year

Dedmon 8th year

6th pick 1st year

 

Thats our core 9 dudes. We are way young. 

 

We need a vet FA at every position except center imo...

 

[NBASupes]

15 minutes ago, terrell said:

We need a vet FA at every position except center imo...

 

I think a rotational vet at SF/PF and resigning Skal and Teague is probably what we are going to see. 

[RedDawg#8]

Just now, NBASupes said:

I think a rotational vet at SF/PF and resigning Skal and Teague is probably what we are going to see. 

yuck