So...Game 3

[marco102]

Just now, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Trae needs to be completely unleashed tonight, with all of his bag of tricks.

Do whatever it takes to win.  

And no complaints from our fan base when he does it.

Heroes win playoff games.  Not role players.

Yeah, they used to say that about LeBron too.  Why is LBJ passing and not taking the crazy shot? Ray Allen won a series for Heat against the Spurs.  There have been more role players hitting big shots than super stars in the playoffs.  We just remember the superstars because they generally will take the last shot.

Now everyone's looking at these players like LBJ, Trae, and Luka who make their teammates better because they raise their floor and have more success.

I'm not saying Trae shouldn't take the hero shot.  He should.  I just prefer Trae make the right play down the stretch and when it comes to game winning shot time, if he wants to take it fine, but don't go hoisting up 10 shots down the stretch because your teammates are missing them. Still make the right play and trust them because our shooters have been clutch in the fourth. Kevin, Bogi, Gallo, Hunter have all hit big shots. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

6 minutes ago, marco102 said:

I don't agree with this. His teammates were missing wide open shots they normally make.  Keep making the right play.  I rather Trae make the right play than force up hero ball shots.  A wide open shot is more likely to go in than Trae off the bounce.  

And I'll keep citing this until some of you get it.  When Trae is a scoring superstar, we're damn near unstoppable.  And hero ball shots are part of him reaching this point total.

 

=

 

17 - 1 record when he balls out and looks to score.

That is an UNDENIABLE stat.

[Watchman]

22 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

We need more from our front court: Capela, Collins, Gallo and Snell.

We can't settle for 3s.

No more ALL BENCH (unless they are on fire). No more 'Normal' rotation

More Hunter driving, he had 11 free throws attempts.

More Trae minutes. It's the playoffs.

They need to involve Capela and Collins in the offense.  If Gallo can't hit his threes, then tell him to shoot twos or have a seat on the bench.

[marco102]

Just now, TheNorthCydeRises said:

And I'll keep citing this until some of you get it.  When Trae is a scoring superstar, we're damn near unstoppable.  And hero ball shots are part of him reaching this point total.

 

=

 

17 - 1 record when he balls out and looks to score.

That is an UNDENIABLE stat.

So making the right play means he doesn't score? If the defense is giving him the higher percentage shot he should take it.  If he's surrounded by 4 Knicks and he has Bogi on the wing wide ass open. He should pass it to Bogi. Superstars make the right plays. Point blank simple.

[Watchman]

21 hours ago, kg01 said:

Need someone to match Gibson's effort.  Not sure OO is up to it.  For better or worse, we need Solo.  He atleast knows what playoff physicality is all about plus he's about 73% likely to end some Knicks player's season.  Hey you started it, Knicks.

(Dang, am I stuck on track-changes again?)

OO is at a huge disadvantage playing backup center.  He is too small for that job.  Hopefully Schlenk will get us a real backup center this off-season.  

[Watchman]

20 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

He cant feast from the bench though. I hate the refs.

No one on the bench will run a play for him either.  Same for Capella.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

2 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Yeah, they used to say that about LeBron too.  Why is LBJ passing and not taking the crazy shot? Ray Allen won a series for Heat against the Spurs.  There have been more role players hitting big shots than super stars in the playoffs.  We just remember the superstars because they generally will take the last shot.

Now everyone's looking at these players like LBJ, Trae, and Luka who make their teammates better because they raise their floor and have more success.

I'm not saying Trae shouldn't take the hero shot.  He should.  I just prefer Trae make the right play down the stretch and when it comes to game winning shot time, if he wants to take it fine, but don't go hoisting up 10 shots down the stretch because your teammates are missing them. Still make the right play and trust them because our shooters have been clutch in the fourth. Kevin, Bogi, Gallo, Hunter have all hit big shots. 

 

 I'm sorry.  Do we have a player on this team even close to the level of a Ray Allen on here?  A guy who was a proven offensive superstar in the regular season and in playoff competition?   And for the record, Ray Allen made a shot that kept them from being eliminated.  His shot tied the game.  He did NOT win a series for the Heat.  Lebron was the MVP.

Do you even realize what Lebron actually did in that Game 6?  Here . . let me show you.

 

 

Do you know what he did in the decisive Game 7?  Here, let me show you.

 

 

Here's the problem with your logic.

Here are the career numbers of the guys who have participated in the NBA playoffs

 

Gallinari:  14.5 ppg - 37% FG - 29% 3FG

Williams:  12.2 ppg - 39% FG - 26% 3FG

Capela:  8.2 ppg - 7.8 rebs - 61% FG

Solo:  4.1 - 43% FG - 46% 3FG

Snell:  3.5 ppg - 37% FG - 36% 3FG

 

Those are the guys that have playoff experience, that you're trusting to make open shots in clutch playoff games.  If they've made a few already in the game, OK.  If they're tossing up bricks, no way you continue to live and die with those guys shooting the ball, while your offensive scoring superstar makes "the right play".

 

Bogi was a monster in the Euroleague championship that he won, but he's been stuck in Sacramento before he came here.  Even he has never been under the pressure of a NBA playoff series in which teams are not only trying to slow him down, but literally trying to rough him up in the process. NBA playoff intensity is much greater than what you see here.  And the talent level is much greater, especially from an athletic standpoint.

 

 

So in essence, you're saying for Trae Young, a guy who has put up back to back 30 point games already in this series, is to NOT look for his own shot, even "hero ball" shots, but trust his teammates to make open looks . . even when they're not making them?

Your logic is flawed, sir.  NBA championships are overwhelmingly won by teams who have at least 1 guy playing at a Hall of Fame level, surrounded by 2 other guys playing at least at an All-Star level.  And on the road, the superstar player almost always carries his team to victory.

Trae's scoring ability is what scares the hell out of people.  They WANT him to defer to his teammates, because they would rather them beat them, than Trae.  No one at MSG was screaming F--- John Collins . . or F--- Bogi . . or F--- Kevin Huerter.   They were screaming F--- Trae Young.

Why?

Because HE is the one they fear.  HE is the one that they know they can't stop, if he gets on a roll.

And HE is the one that when he scores 32 points or more, the Hawks are . . .

 

 

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

20 minutes ago, Watchman said:

OO is at a huge disadvantage playing backup center.  He is too small for that job.  Hopefully Schlenk will get us a real backup center this off-season.  

 

Maybe that means he should play a guy who is stronger than OO.  A guy who can defensively rebound better, because he uses his strength better.

Hmmm . . . I know a guy who can do that.

 

[RedDawg#8]

20 minutes ago, Watchman said:

OO is at a huge disadvantage playing backup center.  He is too small for that job.  Hopefully Schlenk will get us a real backup center this off-season.  

OO may not be the answer but its bot due to his size.

Gibson is 6-9 230 and giving us problems because of effort and savvy. 

OO came on strong at the end of the season, but the playoffs are a different animal especially for a rookie. If we want a vet, great. OO has enough size to get it done though, just needs more seasoning.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

24 minutes ago, marco102 said:

So making the right play means he doesn't score? If the defense is giving him the higher percentage shot he should take it.  If he's surrounded by 4 Knicks and he has Bogi on the wing wide ass open. He should pass it to Bogi. Superstars make the right plays. Point blank simple.

He should not pass it to Bogi if Trae has enough to room to get his shot off . . AND . . Bogi has missed his last 7 or 8 threes.

Sometimes, superstar players must take it upon themselves to keep the momentum going themselves.

Trae made the right plays in Game 2 going down the stretch, and it cost us, because guys couldn't make shots.

 

As @JayBirdHawk said, I want to go down with Trae leaving nothing in the tank, and taking those crucial shots.

[marco102]

1 minute ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

 

So in essence, you're saying for Trae Young, a guy who has put up back to back 30 point games already in this series, is to NOT look for his own shot, even "hero ball" shots, but trust his teammates to make open looks . . even when they're not making them?

Your logic is flawed, sir.  NBA championships are overwhelmingly won by teams who have at least 1 guy playing at a Hall of Fame level, surrounded by 2 other guys playing at least at an All-Star level.  And on the road, the superstar player almost always carries his team to victory.

Trae's scoring ability is what scares the hell out of people.  They WANT him to defer to his teammates, because they would rather them beat them, than Trae.  No one at MSG was screaming F--- John Collins . . or F--- Bogi . . or F--- Kevin Huerter.   They were screaming F--- Trae Young.

Why?

Because HE is the one they fear.  HE is the one that they know they can't stop, if he gets on a roll.

And HE is the one that when he scores 32 points or more, the Hawks are . . .

 

 

 

Nope.  Not what I'm saying at all.  The Knicks were trying to get the ball out of Trae's hand so he was double and trippled team.  Him making hero shots may have gotten us the same results of a loss.   I'm saying in those instances, for Trae to make the right play.

I rather he make the right play than hoist up a 40 ft bomb off the dribble.  For sure he can make those, but I'd perfer him to pass it to a wide open 40% shooter in Bogi. 

Not saying he can't play hero ball. You seem to think this is black or white. It's not. He should make the best play with the highest chance for team success.

But we both have our opinions and you aren't changing mine.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Let it fly, Trae.

If you can make 33% of these shots, it's better than 10% from other people getting wide open looks.

 

 

[Spud2nique]

I found @kg01

https://www.instagram.com/p/CPa8LaqhWYQ/?utm_medium=copy_link

[JeffS17]

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Trae needs to be completely unleashed tonight, with all of his bag of tricks.

Do whatever it takes to win.  

And no complaints from our fan base when he does it.

Heroes win playoff games.  Not role players.

If they're running under screens, not doubling, or leaving him open for floaters (playing the roll man / defending the lobs), by all means take over the game.  But I don't want Trae out there forcing it.  Getting everyone involved, touching the rock, making shots, etc. is what got us to the playoffs in the first place.  Our shooters will not be cold like game 2 very often, so there's no need to lose trust in them.

[MarylandHawk]

34 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Nope.  Not what I'm saying at all.  The Knicks were trying to get the ball out of Trae's hand so he was double and trippled team.  Him making hero shots may have gotten us the same results of a loss.   I'm saying in those instances, for Trae to make the right play.

I rather he make the right play than hoist up a 40 ft bomb off the dribble.  For sure he can make those, but I'd perfer him to pass it to a wide open 40% shooter in Bogi. 

Not saying he can't play hero ball. You seem to think this is black or white. It's not. He should make the best play with the highest chance for team success.

But we both have our opinions and you aren't changing mine.

I agree with this approach as long as “right play” doesn’t always equal pass. The right play might be “my teammates aren't feeling but I am so let me fo to work”.  

[TheNorthCydeRises]

53 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Nope.  Not what I'm saying at all.  The Knicks were trying to get the ball out of Trae's hand so he was double and trippled team.  Him making hero shots may have gotten us the same results of a loss.   I'm saying in those instances, for Trae to make the right play.

I rather he make the right play than hoist up a 40 ft bomb off the dribble.  For sure he can make those, but I'd perfer him to pass it to a wide open 40% shooter in Bogi. 

Not saying he can't play hero ball. You seem to think this is black or white. It's not. He should make the best play with the highest chance for team success.

But we both have our opinions and you aren't changing mine.

 

Is it accurate to say that you don't see any scenario in which a 30+ foot three pointer from Trae is a good shot?

If that's the case, you'll never be an advocate of him taking that shot, as opposed to passing it to Bogi or Huerter, even when they're off, because you'll always believe an open 3 from them, is better than an open 30 footer from Trae.

 

Is that a correct assumption?

[AHF]

There is a right balance with this.  Taking bad shots in hero ball mode doesn't work very well.  Even the greats like Kobe saw their numbers drop way off when they went into that mode.  Guys like Steve Kerr, Sam Cassell, John Paxson, Robert Horry, etc. made some HUGE shots even though they were role players for their teams.  That isn't to say that we can allow opposing teams to stop Trae simply by doubling but the first option needs to be to punish the opposing teams when they put themselves in a 4 on 3 situation with the rest of the team.  Trae should be able to do that especially when since he gets doubled so far out making it harder for guys to recover.  

Getting Trae good shots through screens and other action is preferable to asking him to just "take over" with deep 3's while he is marked.

This should be a learning experience for our whole team and Nate needs to have them better prepared for that situation next time.  And our 40% 3pt shooters need to hit those open shots.

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Is it accurate to say that you don't see any scenario in which a 30+ foot three pointer from Trae is a good shot?

If that's the case, you'll never be an advocate of him taking that shot, as opposed to passing it to Bogi or Huerter, even when they're off, because you'll always believe an open 3 from them, is better than an open 30 footer from Trae.

 

Is that a correct assumption?

I fail to see any scenario where a 30+ foot three pointer from a marked Trae is a good shot when you've got guys like that wide open from 22 feet.  If Trae is wide open, then he has converted those well enough that this can be absolutely be a good shot - especially when he is hot and the others are cold.  

Context matters here.  

[marco102]

15 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Is it accurate to say that you don't see any scenario in which a 30+ foot three pointer from Trae is a good shot?

If that's the case, you'll never be an advocate of him taking that shot, as opposed to passing it to Bogi or Huerter, even when they're off, because you'll always believe an open 3 from them, is better than an open 30 footer from Trae.

 

Is that a correct assumption?

Nope, when he's wide open for it and not contested he should take it in certain circumstances. You are trying to make this white and black and I'm not. 

I'm not just a Trae Young fan. I'm an Atlanta Hawks fan. I've seen Trae shoot and turnover the ball to lose us games. I've seen him take over games. I just want the Hawks the win and I don't care if he has 55 points or 4 points.  As long as the Hawks win that's all that matters.

 

[Thomas]

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

As @JayBirdHawk said, I want to go down with Trae leaving nothing in the tank, and taking those crucial shots.

Last game Trae pretty much single handedly brought us back from 10 down in the fourth to a tied up game. Then the bricks came from everyone. So yeah, Trae got us here so let it rip if necessary which last game it certainly was