So...Game 3

[TheNorthCydeRises]

26 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

If they're running under screens, not doubling, or leaving him open for floaters (playing the roll man / defending the lobs), by all means take over the game.  But I don't want Trae out there forcing it.  Getting everyone involved, touching the rock, making shots, etc. is what got us to the playoffs in the first place.  Our shooters will not be cold like game 2 very often, so there's no need to lose trust in them.

 

You don't know that for sure though.

Gallo has been ice cold the last 2 games and has historically been bad in the playoffs.  Huerter is off and on, and seemed to lack a little aggressiveness in Game 2, despite making a few shots early.  Collins, who is a 40% 3 point shooter, couldn't even stay on the court. 

And Bogi was forcing up every shot he could take ( like he was the guy that had to be the hero ), instead of making "the right play" and keep the ball moving.  He went 2 - 13 from 3 . . ( 0 - 7 in the 2nd half ).

But I guess making the right play only applies to Trae.

The good news is that historically, these role players can and will play better at home. But if the Knicks continue the trend of banging some of these non-tough guys around, that might pose an issue to how effective they can be.  This is not a series in which guys can afford to get punked in.  And that includes guys that I didn't name, like Tony Snell and Okongwu ( although he'll get a little pass because he's a rookie ).

The playoffs are a totally different animal. The pressure and intensity is far different. Everyone who balls in the regular season, isn't built for postseason play ( see Julius Randle ).  See bubble baller Duncan Robinson ( Heck . . see Tim Hardaway Jr in 2017, who laid a complete dud for us ( 33% FG - 26% 3FG vs Washington ).   

It's not a coincidence that the guy who has been in the most playoff battles ( Derrick Rose ), is the one leading them in scoring right now and stabilizes the team.

I am all for Trae looking to put up a huge point total in Game 3, if it means a Hawk win.  And I personally don't care how he does it.  Foul baiting.  35 foot bombs.  Floaters out the ying yang.  Just do what needs to be done to ensure victory.

 

 

[AHF]

9 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

 

I am all for Trae looking to put up a huge point total in Game 3, if it means a Hawk win.  And I personally don't care how he does it.  Foul baiting.  35 foot bombs.  Floaters out the ying yang.  Just do what needs to be done to ensure victory.

 

 

I think we all want the win.  Dialogue is around whether forcing shots in hero mode increases the chances of a win or not.  

If MJ isn't too good to feed a lesser open teammate, then I don't think anyone is.  Both of these plays Jordan had the ball in his hands with the clock running down and dished to his open teammates.  Announcer even says "it will be a shock if anyone but Michael Jordan takes this shot; it's Michael Jordan time"....assist.  Win.

 

 

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

5 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

See bubble baller Duncan Robinson

 

I meant to erase this, and say Tyler Herro . . ( 7.7 ppg - 33% FG - 23% 3FG ).  

 

[AHF]

On the flip side of the coin:

 

[Thomas]

MJ time as in back to the basket, don't put the ball on the floor, then hop to a fade away winner. Nike rules tended to apply with MJ you know.

[AHF]

1 minute ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

I meant to erase this, and say Tyler Herro . . ( 7.7 ppg - 33% FG - 23% 3FG ).  

 

He has been rough this series.  Shouldn't be shocking for a guy who looks like a good player but not a superstar in his second season.  Is struggling and the subject of some more defensive attention and the numbers end up a lot rougher than last year over the first 3 games.  No more or less shocking than seeing Gallo struggle.  They are very useful pieces but not exactly transcendent players.

[AHF]

1 minute ago, Thomas said:

MJ time as in back to the basket, don't put the ball on the floor, then hop to a fade away winner. Nike rules tended to apply with MJ you know.

There is definitely a time and place for the hero ball play.  Jordan was better made for it with his physique and athleticism and frankly it was easier in some ways in his era with the illegal defense rules that allowed offenses to clear the floor by stacking the rest of the players off to the side while the defenders had to either hard commit to a double or to stay within reach of their assignment.  If a one-on-one attempt is the best shot you can get then by all means but there is a time and place for hitting the open man too.  

[Thomas]

Uh my point in comparison is MJ got every single call and also was not called for walking pretty much ever even thought that was his MO on the post ups. Trae overall in this series has not had that because of pretty obvious favoritism from the refs for NY. When he finally went to the line late first game it was not because of phantom calls. A hill to climb at the moment. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Just now, AHF said:

I think we all want the win.  Dialogue is around whether forcing shots in hero mode increases the chances of a win or not.  

If MJ isn't too good to feed a lesser open teammate, then I don't think anyone is.  Both of these plays Jordan had the ball in his hands with the clock running down and dished to his open teammates.  Announcer even says "it will be a shock if anyone but Michael Jordan takes this shot; it's Michael Jordan time"....assist.  Win.

 

 

 

 

That's Jordan making the decision to really trust those guys in critical moments.  But let's look at each of those games.

In the game vs the Lakers, Jordan went for 30 points and 10 assists.  Paxson was a red hot 8 - 11 FG, before taking that shot to put them up by 4.  In that game Paxson wasn't missing anything.  That scenario probably goes down much different, if Pax was 2 - 11 FG.  Would a red hot Jordan ( 12 - 23 FG in that game ) trust Paxson in a crucial situation, if he were missing shot after shot?

Pippen was outstanding in that game 32 points.  Paxson pumped in 20 points.  Oh . . and for you Nate rotation defenders ( not you AHF ), both Jordan and Pippen played the entire 48 minutes.  Magic played the entire game too.

 

Kind of a different scenario in 1997.  It was a very ugly game.  Jordan took 35 shots, only made 15, but scored 39 points.  Pippen was 6 - 17 for 23 points.  No other Bulls player was in double figures.  Not even the great Atlanta legend, Toni Kukoc.  

In that crucial moment, you see what the vet Steve Kerr told his leader?   If they come off of me, I'll be ready.

Sure enough, Stockton leaves Kerr to double Jordan.  And instead of Jordan shooting over 2 people, he passes to an open Kerr for the game winner.

To me, I trust Jordan's decision to either shoot the ball or pass it.  He's made big shots shooting over people, and he's made the pass to open shooters to win or seal a game.  In that instance, I trust the decision that superstar player would make.

 

Despite this being early in Trae's career, I trust what he decides to do with the ball in his hands.  I UNCONDITIONALLY trust him, whether it be the "right play" or the "hero play". 

I've seen him make too many late game tough type shots and long bombs to win or tie a game.  The guy literally lives for these types of moments.

 

 

And he's also done this:

 

 

Trust his decision making, no matter what.

[JayBirdHawk]

Play that Man!

 

 

[AHF]

29 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

That's Jordan making the decision to really trust those guys in critical moments.  But let's look at each of those games.

In the game vs the Lakers, Jordan went for 30 points and 10 assists.  Paxson was a red hot 8 - 11 FG, before taking that shot to put them up by 4.  In that game Paxson wasn't missing anything.  That scenario probably goes down much different, if Pax was 2 - 11 FG.  Would a red hot Jordan ( 12 - 23 FG in that game ) trust Paxson in a crucial situation, if he were missing shot after shot?

Pippen was outstanding in that game 32 points.  Paxson pumped in 20 points.  Oh . . and for you Nate rotation defenders ( not you AHF ), both Jordan and Pippen played the entire 48 minutes.  Magic played the entire game too.

 

Kind of a different scenario in 1997.  It was a very ugly game.  Jordan took 35 shots, only made 15, but scored 39 points.  Pippen was 6 - 17 for 23 points.  No other Bulls player was in double figures.  Not even the great Atlanta legend, Toni Kukoc.  

In that crucial moment, you see what the vet Steve Kerr told his leader?   If they come off of me, I'll be ready.

Sure enough, Stockton leaves Kerr to double Jordan.  And instead of Jordan shooting over 2 people, he passes to an open Kerr for the game winner.

To me, I trust Jordan's decision to either shoot the ball or pass it.  He's made big shots shooting over people, and he's made the pass to open shooters to win or seal a game.  In that instance, I trust the decision that superstar player would make.

 

Despite this being early in Trae's career, I trust what he decides to do with the ball in his hands.  I UNCONDITIONALLY trust him, whether it be the "right play" or the "hero play". 

I've seen him make too many late game tough type shots and long bombs to win or tie a game.  The guy literally lives for these types of moments.

 

 

And he's also done this:

 

 

Trust his decision making, no matter what.

His decision was to hit the open man last game so seems like we aren't really very far apart on that.  I expect Trae has the judgment to make the same call.

[Lurker]

I hate that this game is at 7. Ensures that I'm going to miss part of it given that I'm walking in the evening unless there are storms.

[bleachkit]

1 minute ago, Lurker said:

I hate that this game is at 7. Ensures that I'm going to miss part of it given that I'm walking in the evening unless there are storms.

Dont forget your handy frequency modulation audio device.

[REHawksFan]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

I think we all want the win.  Dialogue is around whether forcing shots in hero mode increases the chances of a win or not.  

If MJ isn't too good to feed a lesser open teammate, then I don't think anyone is.  Both of these plays Jordan had the ball in his hands with the clock running down and dished to his open teammates.  Announcer even says "it will be a shock if anyone but Michael Jordan takes this shot; it's Michael Jordan time"....assist.  Win.

 

 

 

As you said though, context matters. Time and situation matter.

How much time is left? Who has momentum in the game? Have your teammates been hot or ice cold? What's the score?

All of that matters for this discussion imo. 

If we are late in the game and the Knicks are on a run and pulling away AND all your shooters are ice cold, then I'd rather put the ball in your best players hands and see what happens. I'll live with the results. 

And that doesn't mean he has to take a 30 footer with 2 guys draped on him. It could mean driving to the lane and forcing a foul. Trying a floater. Mayne give the ball up and come off a screen for a catch and shoot. 

But in that situation, Trae has a better chance to win the game than continuing to go back to ice cold shooters, even IF they are wide open. 

I just don't think great players deferring to cold, open shooters late in the game in the pressure packed playoffs is a winning strategy. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

13 minutes ago, Lurker said:

I hate that this game is at 7. Ensures that I'm going to miss part of it given that I'm walking in the evening unless there are storms.

 

If you have the ESPN app, there's a chance that you may can stream this game live.

[bleachkit]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

I think we all want the win.  Dialogue is around whether forcing shots in hero mode increases the chances of a win or not.  

If MJ isn't too good to feed a lesser open teammate, then I don't think anyone is.  Both of these plays Jordan had the ball in his hands with the clock running down and dished to his open teammates.  Announcer even says "it will be a shock if anyone but Michael Jordan takes this shot; it's Michael Jordan time"....assist.  Win.

 

 

 

Jordan was allowed only one token White guy shooter per team. Whereas with Trae on this Hawks team, he has multiple token White guy shooters to choose from. Advantage Trae. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

On the flip side of the coin:

 

 

Posting this to see if the difficulty of his game winning shots, was equal to what he did when he missed those crucial shots.

 

 

The best tough shot shooter of all time.  The difficulty on some of these shots are incredible.

LOL . . but I guess that's better than trusting Smush Parker, Brian Cook, Jordan Farmar

Don't forget though . . he did trust a guy that most people wouldn't have thought of.

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

On 5/27/2021 at 12:49 PM, JayBirdHawk said:

We need more from our front court: Capela, Collins, Gallo and Snell. (points, rebounds, defense, toughness)

We can't settle for 3s.

No more ALL BENCH (unless they are on fire). No more 'Normal' rotation

More Hunter driving, he had 11 free throws attempts.

More Trae minutes. It's the playoffs.

I'm still rolling with this.....and can we get a handle on their offensive rebounds.

Go Hawks!!!

[Spud2nique]

Game 3 :

 

Hawks 105

Knicks 94

 

Won by 11.
 

Vegas had us as a -4.5. 
 

I thought we would win this by 3. 
 

FLY HAWKS FLYYYYYYYY

 

 

 

 

 

[Atlantaholic]

10 hours ago, AHF said:

He has been rough this series.  Shouldn't be shocking for a guy who looks like a good player but not a superstar in his second season.  Is struggling and the subject of some more defensive attention and the numbers end up a lot rougher than last year over the first 3 games.  No more or less shocking than seeing Gallo struggle.  They are very useful pieces but not exactly transcendent players.

Herro got overrated because he got hot in the bubble. He hadn't done much all year previous to that and hasn't done much since. 

Edited May 29, 2021 by Atlantaholic