The cobbled together, stuff we held on to during the playoffs mega super rumor and team direction thread.

[capstone21]

3 hours ago, Diesel said:

Destroyed by who.. and how?

This is what was said about the GS Warriors in 2012:

I think just like the Warriors, careful building will make this team a winner.   One thing is for certain, you can make a team better defensively with ease.   What you can't do is improve offense easily.   It has been over 40 years of watching the Hawks and we have had only a handful of players that can take over and dominate games.  You got to give Trae some help. 

 

 

Are you referring to Curry?  They surrounding him with defensive 2 way players ... we are not giving Trae defense we are actually making the D worse.  Our backcourt would be TREMENDOUSLY undersized with two guys who don't give effort on the defensive end.  We have to hide Trae a lot but now we have two woeful defenders which means it will a field day for the other teams.  

[shakes]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

I'll start asking more direct questions

Is Bogi or Kevin a much better defender than Mitchell?  

They're not much better, but being taller helps.   That's the reason I want to get rid of both of them and replace them with defensive guards.   Switching them out for Mitchell doesn't do anything for the team as far as I'm concerned.

[shakes]

1 hour ago, thecampster said:

Man....some of you say a lot of words without saying anything at all....

who knew Alison Krauss posted here?

[macdaddy]

40 minutes ago, shakes said:

They're not much better, but being taller helps.   That's the reason I want to get rid of both of them and replace them with defensive guards.   Switching them out for Mitchell doesn't do anything for the team as far as I'm concerned.

I'm fine with it if we can find someone.   Dillon Brooks?  Not sure what our options are.   But then i think we're still in the same boat in that our offense will be easy to stop. 

[Hawkmoor]

1 hour ago, shakes said:

I don't think you responded to the correct post.   

 

 

I didn't?  Let me correct that.  Thanks.

3 hours ago, Diesel said:

That's true..  we were the 10th seed... and we defeated the supposed 7th seed  to get into the playoffs?  Or did you forget.  We beat them with our starting Center missing half of the game...  

HM, you miss the whole reason we were the 10th seed.  But just the fact that without our starting PF and our Starting C missing half the game, we beat a team that many felt (when healthy) were one of the best in the East.   When we played and beat them, they were healthy... and we were not.

Keep it coming... we see you now...

Just some headlines for you to soak up... before you bring in more dribble...

"The Cleveland Cavaliers Will Surprisingly Win the East This Season … And Face the Warriors in the Finals Again, According to an Interesting Metric"

 

"Could the Cavaliers Win the East’s No. 1 Seed?"

 

"Will Cavs continue logging big wins to stay at top of East standings?"

 

You made suggestions for players,  I agreed.  Even if I didn't agree, I wouldn;t criticize the player you suggested to the level of thinking that a team with no championships can be that picky.  Thats the discord right there.  The difference of opinion is you feeling the Hawks needing to be selective.  Thats fine.  Thats your opinion.  My opinion is being selective has gotten the Hawks no championships. 

To make YOUR point for your, the Hawks DID one time go after a player with baggage, J.R. Rider, Isiah Rider.  It DIDN'T WORK.   So, yes, the Hawks could sign Kyrie, and it could fail like J.R. Rider, or it could work big.  My point is a player like him has the potential to make this work.   So, yes, your point has merit.

[Hawkmoor]

1 hour ago, capstone21 said:

Are you referring to Curry?  They surrounding him with defensive 2 way players ... we are not giving Trae defense we are actually making the D worse.  Our backcourt would be TREMENDOUSLY undersized with two guys who don't give effort on the defensive end.  We have to hide Trae a lot but now we have two woeful defenders which means it will a field day for the other teams.  

Which is why I said the Hawks MIGHT have to decide if they wanna just try and outscore other teams.

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, capstone21 said:

Are you referring to Curry?  They surrounding him with defensive 2 way players ... we are not giving Trae defense we are actually making the D worse.  Our backcourt would be TREMENDOUSLY undersized with two guys who don't give effort on the defensive end.  We have to hide Trae a lot but now we have two woeful defenders which means it will a field day for the other teams.  

Again.  Tell me how much better Bogi or Kev is compared to Mitchell?  If the Defense is the same, then  the difference is Offense.

 

1 hour ago, shakes said:

They're not much better, but being taller helps.   That's the reason I want to get rid of both of them and replace them with defensive guards.   Switching them out for Mitchell doesn't do anything for the team as far as I'm concerned.

Swapping one with Mitchell does do something.   At the very least, it gives us a sought after trading piece.

 

[Diesel]

31 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

I didn't?  Let me correct that.  Thanks.

You made suggestions for players,  I agreed.  Even if I didn't agree, I wouldn;t criticize the player you suggested to the level of thinking that a team with no championships can be that picky.  Thats the discord right there.  The difference of opinion is you feeling the Hawks needing to be selective.  Thats fine.  Thats your opinion.  My opinion is being selective has gotten the Hawks no championships. 

To make YOUR point for your, the Hawks DID one time go after a player with baggage, J.R. Rider, Isiah Rider.  It DIDN'T WORK.   So, yes, the Hawks could sign Kyrie, and it could fail like J.R. Rider, or it could work big.  My point is a player like him has the potential to make this work.   So, yes, your point has merit.

With Kyrie it's more than just Baggage.   You ignored what I said in the other post so let me reitterate:

1.  Kyrie Irving will be in his contract Year if we were to trade for him.

You want to mention former Hawks.   DANNY MANNING.  1 Year Rental.  This is not baggage.  This is a Reality.  Ask the Celtics.  Why do you think Kyrie is hated in Boston???

"Kyrie Irving says he plans on re-signing with Celtics"

That was the headline....  I made it big so you couldn't ignore the point...  He didn't resign with the Celtics and the Celtics got nothing for him...

 

2.  Missed Games...

Missed Games is not Baggage.  It's a problem.. Especially when you missed 23% and 45% of your game prior to the COVID Vaccine missed games.   Just think about that...

Kyrie trended missing 23% of his games with Boston.   45% of his games with Brooklyn.  And this was prior to him not being able to play because of COVID 19 Vaccine mandate.

HM, you may not be old enough to remember Marcus Camby.  Marcus Camby was a great player... a Game Changing Player... National Champion in College.  Got to the pros and he was not durable.  Never became as great as he should have been because he lacked Durability.  The Knicks tied their wagon to Camby... and he never took them anywhere.   Why do you think Brooklyn Loss This year?

Steve Nash Says Kevin Durant And Kyrie Irving Are Fatigued

How do you play No regular season games... Show up for the Playoffs and are FATIGUED?

 

[Wretch]

7 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Again.  Tell me how much better Bogi or Kev is compared to Mitchell?  If the Defense is the same, then  the difference is Offense.

 

Swapping one with Mitchell does do something.   At the very least, it gives us a sought after trading piece.

 

The problem I'm having is that I don't believe you Diesel.  I kind of believed you were interested in PG13 at your suggested retail price, but there's no way you think that a Young/Mitchell backcourt works.  I'm convinced that you're talking to be talking dude...lol I applaud you for selling the show, but I can't take this seriously.  No knock against Mitchell because I like him, but he is a horrible fit next to Trae.

I'm a firm believer that defense is a non-quantifiable aspect and that individual defense is less impactful/meaningful than team defense.  I'm also of the opinion that what people call defense is less about skill and more about mindset and effort.  Short of physical limitations, anyone can play defense - but Trae and Mitchell both have the physical limitations of height and the lack of mindset/effort.  The defense is most certainly NOT the same.  This is not a problem that I want to solve for, nor is Mitchell an asset that I want to manage.  Move him in a 3-way, but this is as wrong the place for him as it is for Bradley Beal.

We need an offensive compliment to Trae, but not at the cost of some semblance of perimeter defense.  We might as well change mascot to BBQ Chicken...because that's what we will be every night.  We will get COOKED and served.   

Atlanta Barbeque.......

[Hawkmoor]

10 minutes ago, Diesel said:

 

Steve Nash Says Kevin Durant And Kyrie Irving Are Fatigued

How do you play No regular season games... Show up for the Playoffs and are FATIGUED?

 

Trae wasn't fatigued either, lmao.  As far as baggage goes, what you posted IS THE baggage. You said its more than baggage, then LISTED the baggage. 

 

Edited May 12, 2022 by Hawkmoor

[macdaddy]

2 minutes ago, Wretch said:

We need an offensive compliment to Trae, but not at the cost of some semblance of perimeter defense.  We might as well change mascot to BBQ Chicken...because that's what we will be every night.  We will get COOKED and served.   

Still though how is this different than now?  Our perimeter defense got cooked big time and on top of it we couldn't score.  

[Hawkmoor]

7 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Still though how is this different than now?  Our perimeter defense got cooked big time and on top of it we couldn't score.  

Its no win dude.  If the perfect player with no baggage and proof of vaccination papers don't come through that door, its a no go.  Forget Kyrie, I wanna ask for Lavine too but afraid to ask, lmao.

Edited May 12, 2022 by Hawkmoor

[Diesel]

6 minutes ago, Wretch said:

The problem I'm having is that I don't believe you Diesel.  I kind of believed you were interested in PG13 at your suggested retail price, but there's no way you think that a Young/Mitchell backcourt works.  I'm convinced that you're talking to be talking dude...lol I applaud you for selling the show, but I can't take this seriously.  No knock against Mitchell because I like him, but he is a horrible fit next to Trae.

I'm a firm believer that defense is a non-quantifiable aspect and that individual defense is less impactful/meaningful than team defense.  I'm also of the opinion that what people call defense is less about skill and more about mindset and effort.  Short of physical limitations, anyone can play defense - but Trae and Mitchell both have the physical limitations of height and the lack of mindset/effort.  The defense is most certainly NOT the same.  This is not a problem that I want to solve for, nor is Mitchell an asset that I want to manage.  Move him in a 3-way, but this is as wrong the place for him as it is for Bradley Beal.

We need an offensive compliment to Trae, but not at the cost of some semblance of perimeter defense.  We might as well change mascot to BBQ Chicken...because that's what we will be every night.  We will get COOKED and served.   

Atlanta Barbeque.......

Let me help you get to where I am Wretch...

When was the last time that the Hawks was able to trade for an allstar player in their 5th year?  If you follow my trades and Depth Chart, you will note that I have both offensive and defensive players. 

It never works when you try to pair what you believe will fit.

We thought that Hunter/Cam would be defensive fits next to Trae.

Cam/Trae had the worse +/-.

Hunter/Trae was not much better. 

Again, our winning formula last year was Bogi and Trae both playing well!  How is that..Bogi is not a defensive player.  Not even defensive minded.   The thing is that if we have enough defensive pieces, we won't get COOKED.. We will be cooking. 

[Diesel]

13 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

Trae wasn't fatigued either, lmao.

Thanks for your nonresponse.

[Diesel]

2 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Let me help you get to where I am Wretch...

When was the last time that the Hawks was able to trade for an allstar player in their 5th year?  If you follow my trades and Depth Chart, you will note that I have both offensive and defensive players. 

It never works when you try to pair what you believe will fit.

We thought that Hunter/Cam would be defensive fits next to Trae.

Cam/Trae had the worse +/-.

Hunter/Trae was not much better. 

Again, our winning formula last year was Bogi and Trae both playing well!  How is that..Bogi is not a defensive player.  Not even defensive minded.   The thing is that if we have enough defensive pieces, we won't get COOKED.. We will be cooking. 

Addendum...

But we have to have that offensive player that protect Trae from Being isolated on offense.   That's what Mitchell represents to me.

Can PG13 be that player... Sure.. but he's what 35?

We're talking about a young DMitch who has mucho trade value. ... and if we see after 1 year that what you said is true and that this backcourt gets us cooked, we can trade him. 

But... What if it works??  Nobody wants to consider that you can put to good offensive players together and the team can be successful because the defenses can't easily focus on one...

 

[JayBirdHawk]

 

[macdaddy]

Yeah i wonder how folks feel about Lavine.   I'd take him and he's 6'5" so that should make a lot of people really happy!

 

[Diesel]

21 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

Trae wasn't fatigued either, lmao.  As far as baggage goes, what you posted IS THE baggage. You said its more than baggage, then LISTED the baggage. 

 

 

Explain how trading for a player in their contract year is BAGGAGE???

 

[RandomFan]

[Wretch]

40 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Still though how is this different than now?  Our perimeter defense got cooked big time and on top of it we couldn't score.  

It's hard to argue with you because it's the truth and I agree.  Try to understand, I'm not one of these dudes who thinks sprinkling some magic defense dust on our team is going to propel us to the top of the conference.  I know that our biggest need is someone who can take the pressure off of Trae.  I'm just not of the opinion that Mitchell or Beal or Kyrie are the answer (all for pretty much the same reason).  If we could land either of these guys in a trade, then we would be better served shipping them elsewhere and bringing in a better fit. 

Also...

I think maybe we're caught up on the idea that we have to get a star SG for Trae.  It doesn't have to be.