Why Do Hawks Fans Hate JC??

[Diesel]

Every trade proposal is about moving JC. 

JC has improved every year here.  He's a top 10 PF.  He has a unique skillset.. 

What's wrong with JC?

[theheroatl]

Nothing wrong with JC. His value is what it is and the most powerful asset chip we have to upgrade to a “big 3” level starter a.k.a a top 25 level player. He is a great player to keep if you don’t have that ability to upgrade. It is what it is. Guys a great player.

 
Paul Millsap comes to mind…

Edited June 8, 2022 by theheroatl

[Diesel]

7 minutes ago, theheroatl said:

Nothing wrong with JC. His value is what it is and the most powerful asset chip we have to upgrade to a “big 3” level starter a.k.a a top 25 level player. He is a great player to keep if you don’t have that ability to upgrade. It is what it is. Guys a great player.

 
Paul Millsap comes to mind…

Nope.   I realize that he's an powerful chip.. but he's also not easily replaced.  We haven't read the room..  There's a lack of good PFs in this league.   When we get rid of our for a "C" that we don't need as much, we will feel it. 

[NBASupes]

I love JC. 

[HawksNWaffles]

I actually do want him to stay. He is a good player, is active in the community, seems like a real cool guy from the few times that he came into the office. 

[RedDawg#8]

JC is very VERY valuable both on and off the court. He is a major part of the culture within the organization. I have seen enough to know that his presence is very positive and well respected. 

Losing him will hurt us in many ways. I would love for him to stay and see this thing through. 

That being said, he has the most overall value in any trade. Gallo has the best contract to move, but JC is the better overall trade piece. I am not interested in losing JC for a draft pick. I am only interested in bringing back a proven player on the court that is better than whatever we already have on the roster not named Trae.

If JC was just good, but stoic and uninspiring, I would be fine moving him for lesser players + assets. But he is the heart of the team. We need to tangibly upgrade the roster if we let him go. 

Bogi, Gallo, Kev, Clint are my top guys I would rather move. 

JC is totally a top 10 PF

[Sothron]

I would only trade him for a true star player coming back to Atlanta. I'm against trading him for anything else. I love JC. He is the only current Hawks whose jersey I have other than Ice Trae.

[AtLaS]

JC is the vocal leader for this team.  That is hard to replace.  If we trade him, who takes that role?  All of our other guys are quiet types and that's not a great recipe for success.  As crazy as it sounds, you have to have at least one loudmouth on the court. I guess Trae is making progress here.  But as of now noone comes close to JC.

Not many 4's can shoot AND finish like him.  He is probably top 3 in the league.  He is extremely versatile and makes this team so much better.  He was a huge key to our success in the playoffs last year.  JC playing at 30% and no Capela crushed us against the Heat.  It's not inconceivable to think we would done a lot more damage to the Heat with them healthy.

He finds himself in trade scenarios b/c he has a contract that will be needed to matchup with larger salaries that we would be taking on, and he has trade value that other teams would want.  I don't really want to trade him though unless we are getting a clear upgrade like in return.

[NBASupes]

I love JC

Would I trade him? Hell yeah. 

He's a top 40-60 player. Top 10, borderline top 5 PF. He's a very efficient and productive player. Extreme versatile and with elite movement skills and athletic ability. Smart, tremendous personality and an extremely hard worker. 

But playing with Trae, defense will always be something we have to go overboard on and if you aren't an elite or very good defender, you better be an elite offensive player. JC isn't that. That makes him expendable. 

I don't know what else to say. He's not expendable for f***ing Jeremi Grant but he's expendable TO ME for: 

Most top 30 players 

A lottery pick with tremendous upside. 

I wouldn't move him for f***ing Chris Duarte but Shaedon Sharpe or Jaden Ivey. 

I wouldn't move him for Anthony Edwards for the 6th pick and JC and that's looking like a f***ing mistake. I didn't think fully about that even though I knew what I knew about JC and he has gotten better every year. JC was having a tremendous year till the injuries piled up before ASB and he was having his best year overall as a Hawk in a lesser offensive role. 

We gotta get top end talent to win. We really only got one top end guy and that's Trae. We need at least three if we want to win a title and consistently contend with Trae. Gotta continue going for it. If JC can get us one of those guys, move him. 

[kg01]

Because Hawks fans are obsessed with tanking and empty boxes. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

2 hours ago, Diesel said:

Every trade proposal is about moving JC. 

JC has improved every year here.  He's a top 10 PF.  He has a unique skillset.. 

What's wrong with JC?

1)  I don't hate JC.  I actually like most everything about his game play except 2 things, which I'll get to in point #3.  But I think every trade proposal is about JC, is because he's actually the guy who we can possibly flip for a better player.  And for me, that's the ONLY scenario I'd be favor of trading JC.  I'm not trading him for a mid lotto pick + a lesser player at his position.  I'd trade him for a guy who is a better player than he is right now

2) Facts.  He has improved every year and has done everything the team and coaches have asked him to do.  The fact that this guy can make almost 40% of his 3s, after basically being a guy who didn't shoot beyong 15 feet in college, is incredible

3) Two things are "wrong" with JC:

• He doesn't have at least an average "off the dribble" offensive game
  • And to me, this is the one thing that's really holding him back from being great.  When I look at the offensive progression of Pascal Siakam, that's the type of offensive game I want to see JC develop into.  If you'd ask me to trade JC for Siakam straight up at the start of the season, I would've said no.  But now, you'd almost have to do that.  Siakam's offensive game would be wonderful to put alongside Trae.   You can even make a case that Gallo has more offensive skill than Collins.  If JC had Gallo's offensive skill set with his post ups, ability to draw fouls, and shooting off the dribble, JC would be a borderline All-Star.

• When playing center, he isn't physical enough to be effective vs bigger guys
  • Both LP and Nate desperately tried to play JC and Gallo together on the frontline, because those two ( in theory ) should've been our best offensive frontline to put on the floor.  They were adequate, but not the best offensive frontline lineup. Capela's ability to offensive rebound the basketball and score, still made Capela a better paring with either Collins or Gallo, than a frontcourt of Collins + Gallo. And the reason is that Collins + Gallo have been HORRIBLE together on defense.  And the reason is that both tend to get dominated by more physical players. 

 

As Trae has gotten to that next level, JC seems to be progressing to where he's going to be as an NBA player.  If this is close to peak JC, I'm fine with this . . . if he's the 3rd or 4th best player on the team. He'd be a great fit on any playoff level team, including ours

But if this is peak JC, and he's our 2nd best player, we are dead in the water.  It's the same situation we'd be in with the Highlight Factory Hawks, when Josh Smith or Al Horofrd would alternate being our 2nd best player.  Neither player had the ability to offensively take over the game, despite being great on defense.  So when Joe Johnson was off, the team would normally lose unless a Jamal Crawford picked up the offensive slack.  Smoove or Al just didn't have the skillset to do it.  

I want to see JC teamed with Ayton in the Hawks frontcourt if possible.  I think it would make Collins a better all around player.  The FT lob pass that he now throws to Capela, would be extremely lethal with Ayton, because even if Ayton didn't catch it on the lob, he's not missing the putback.

 

 

[Threezus]

I honestly think most people here like JC quite a bit and would prefer to keep him unless we can get a star upgrade for him in a bigger deal.   The only reason he is always being traded is because we think he is legit the only piece value wise and money wise that can be moved to get a star player back probably.   Also we feel the PF position can be filled a bit easier with talent than the SG position can be i would think. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

2 hours ago, HawksNWaffles said:

I actually do want him to stay. He is a good player, is active in the community, seems like a real cool guy from the few times that he came into the office. 

 

I absolutely love him in front of the camera, representing the Hawks.  He's easily the best in this regard.  He's our version of Draymond Green when talking to the media, and is the vocal face of the Hawks, even more than Trae.

The only way I'm cool with moving JC, is if we get an All-Star caliber player in return.  

[Peoriabird]

4 hours ago, Diesel said:

Every trade proposal is about moving JC. 

JC has improved every year here.  He's a top 10 PF.  He has a unique skillset.. 

What's wrong with JC?

Nothing is wrong with JC but you know how Hawk fans are.  They want change for the sake of change.  They don't appreciate the concept of continuity and culture.  When Gallo and Bogi were signed, the board went wild...2 years late they can't stand either and can't wait to ship them out for a bag of peanuts.  This is Hawksquawk my friend. 

[AHF]

Some good posts in this thread.  I think @TheNorthCydeRises post is on point with JC.  He is an outstanding power forward but has struggled in matchups against other playoffs bigs career to date (both in and outside of the playoffs).  I barely even recognize this year's playoff run because his injuries crippled him for all effective purposes so completely unfair to judge him by that but he has not had a lot of games where he stepped up and crushed the elite power forwards of the league on either end of the floor.  To me, this year's playoffs is only relevant because he manned up and did what he could when many players would have watched from home.  

He has continuously improved his game and fits in very easily with a ton of different lineups and game plans.  That combination of being really valuable but potentially not a big impact guy when matched up against playoffs PFs is why his name comes up so often in trade scenarios, imo.  If you want to change our playoff ceiling then dealing him for a big impact playoff performer makes sense and if you look at who another team with such a star might be interested in then JC's name jumps off the page as a centerpiece of any such deal.  So discussion of him in this context isn't usually a sign of hate.

If I was going to buy a Hawks jersey, JC would be #2 on the list for me after Trae.  Doubtful that I ever won't be a big fan as long as he is wearing a Hawks jersey (and possibly beyond depending how he leaves).

[Diesel]

3 hours ago, RedDawg#8 said:

JC is very VERY valuable both on and off the court. He is a major part of the culture within the organization. I have seen enough to know that his presence is very positive and well respected. 

Losing him will hurt us in many ways. I would love for him to stay and see this thing through. 

That being said, he has the most overall value in any trade. Gallo has the best contract to move, but JC is the better overall trade piece. I am not interested in losing JC for a draft pick. I am only interested in bringing back a proven player on the court that is better than whatever we already have on the roster not named Trae.

If JC was just good, but stoic and uninspiring, I would be fine moving him for lesser players + assets. But he is the heart of the team. We need to tangibly upgrade the roster if we let him go. 

Bogi, Gallo, Kev, Clint are my top guys I would rather move. 

JC is totally a top 10 PF

You know who else has really Good trade value???

Trae Young...

Do you get my point yet.   When you value the players that you have, you don't go off trading them because they got good trade value.  The reason JC has good trade value is because there are several PFs in the league that suck at this and suck at that.   JC is one that doesn't suck at this and suck at that.   If you trade him, who do you replace him with... if you say Randle.. you need to be beat. 

 

[AHF]

26 minutes ago, Diesel said:

You know who else has really Good trade value???

Trae Young...

Do you get my point yet.   When you value the players that you have, you don't go off trading them because they got good trade value.  The reason JC has good trade value is because there are several PFs in the league that suck at this and suck at that.   JC is one that doesn't suck at this and suck at that.   If you trade him, who do you replace him with... if you say Randle.. you need to be beat. 

 

I think that is about the perception of the best roles for Trae and JC.  Trae is a potential MVP candidate who is your superstar.  

As North put up pretty accurately, imo:

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

If this is close to peak JC, I'm fine with this . . . if he's the 3rd or 4th best player on the team. He'd be a great fit on any playoff level team, including ours

But if this is peak JC, and he's our 2nd best player, we are dead in the water. 

That puts them in different buckets as far as whether you consider them untouchable or not.

It also doesn't mean North (or I) hate JC.

[Threezus]

28 minutes ago, Diesel said:

You know who else has really Good trade value???

Trae Young...

Do you get my point yet.   When you value the players that you have, you don't go off trading them because they got good trade value.  The reason JC has good trade value is because there are several PFs in the league that suck at this and suck at that.   JC is one that doesn't suck at this and suck at that.   If you trade him, who do you replace him with... if you say Randle.. you need to be beat. 

 

You only trade him for a clear bigger upgrade at SG or SF imo.  You get a star back for him in a bigger trade or you don't trade him at all. 

[Mikey]

Hes the definition of mid lol. His best role is as one position (center) on offense but on defense he can't guard that position and can only guard 4s. We paid a lot for a guy that is just an excellent role player. Look at this post season numbers and you'll see he isn't some guy that elevates his game by any means.

The dude wanted max level money and got a huge deal to be the second option and he just isnt that. Hes in all trade packages cause he makes the money and is a good enough player to acquire us the most value. Its no hate to him but he just isn't the guy you need next to trae. This was further proven when we played our best play without him this season

[Peoriabird]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

Some good posts in this thread.  I think @TheNorthCydeRises post is on point with JC.  He is an outstanding power forward but has struggled in matchups against other playoffs bigs career to date (both in and outside of the playoffs). 

You're right!  Gobert and Lavine have been so much better in the playoffs than John!  Oh Wait!