No AJ?? 🤔 lame all rookie team 2022-23

[Spud2nique]

My boy is gonna come back mad he had good stretches. BS!

 

.   

[AHF]

That is a travesty, imo.  

#8 in Win Shares

#7 in BPM

#6 in VORP

HIstoric shooting #s.

 

Boooooooooooo!

[Dnice]

Thanks to Bey and Bogi getting all the PT doesn't help.

[Atlantaholic]

Seems like getting stuck to the bench to end the season got him excluded. 

Still total BS though. Stuff like this should be decided by win shares or something else objective because otherwise players from "unpopular" teams like the Hawks will keep getting shafted. 

[shakes]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

That is a travesty, imo.  

#8 in Win Shares

#7 in BPM

#6 in VORP

HIstoric shooting #s.

 

Boooooooooooo!

I think it's nonsense to apply any advanced stats to rookie of the year discussion.

 

Win shares?  Who cares?  We're talking about an award that usually goes to guys on the worst teams in the league.

[Gray Mule]

All the reason we need to say, "We wuz robbed!"  NBA folks hold the Atlanta Hawks in low regard.  After all, we are a .500 team and we just had the season to prove it.

Face the facts.  All ten of those rookies made their NBA team much better just by being there.  Must have.  There are at least ten rookies better than our own AJ Griffin.  Better in what way, you ask?  Well, they just made the rookie all star team, didn't they?  

You can bet your sweet patootie that, had any of them been an Atlanta Hawk, they would not have made it!

[shakes]

counting stats should be the ONLY stats used in determining ROY.     PPG, APG, RPG....that's pretty much it.

[shakes]

19 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

My boy is gonna come back mad he had good stretches. BS!

 

.   

for the record, the guy I wanted the Hawks to draft at #15 (Tari Eason) is on that list.

[Diesel]

19 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

My boy is gonna come back mad he had good stretches. BS!

 

.   

To be honest, He did fall off a lot in the 2nd half. 

I'm cool with the first team being who they are.   And the guy on the second team I would question is Tari Eason?  Eason has better defensive Chops right now.

But AJ finished shooting 39% from 3.  You can't tell me that he won't be a force moving forward. 

 

 

[Spud2nique]

2 hours ago, Diesel said:

To be honest, He did fall off a lot in the 2nd half. 

I'm cool with the first team being who they are.   And the guy on the second team I would question is Tari Eason?  Eason has better defensive Chops right now.

But AJ finished shooting 39% from 3.  You can't tell me that he won't be a force moving forward. 

 

 

Agreed on his production but it was simply a case of getting burn and a new coach that sat him for a min. But in all fairness there was a stretch where his fg was dropping a bit and thus perhaps hitting “the rookie wall” and Quin didn’t want our rookie become our volume scorer which would be bad for both AJ individually and us as a team collectively.

[JayBirdHawk]

2023 Re-Draft

 

11. AJ Griffin | 6-6 wing | Atlanta Hawks | original selection: No. 16

I was pretty stunned that Griffin got pulled from the Atlanta rotation after Quin Snyder took over, as he’d been a useful floor-spacer surrounding Trae Young and Dejounte Murray throughout the early portion of the season. Griffin averaged about nine point per game this season and shot 47 percent from the field, 39 percent from 3 and 89 percent from the line. In every way imaginable, Griffin came through on the immense shooting potential he showcased at Duke and throughout his time at lower levels. More importantly, I also thought Griffin showcased much better athletic pop for the Hawks than he did at Duke, when he coming off an early season knee injury. He regained some of the explosiveness as a straight-line driver that made him one of the top prospects in the 2021 recruiting class prior to a few other high school injuries. As long as Griffin stays healthy, he’s going to be very valuable. The Hawks beat teams this season by 2.2 points per 100 possessions when he was on the court and actually lost their minutes when he was off the court. Griffin is the kind of skilled, bigger floor-spacer whom every team is looking to acquire. The Hawks have one.

https://theathletic.com/4355853/2023/05/09/nba-draft-paolo-banchero-chet-holmgren/

[macdaddy]

20 hours ago, shakes said:

counting stats should be the ONLY stats used in determining ROY.     PPG, APG, RPG....that's pretty much it.

yeah i guess so but Trae got only 2 of 100 first place votes for ROY despite his numbers being very comparable to Luka.  So i think voters are applying some other criteria.  

[Final_quest]

He didn't really play the last 30 games of the season.  It's not the end of the world he didn't make 2nd team.  Of all the snubs we've had over the years this one doesn't register very high.  

[Gray Mule]

Aside from hitting the rookie wall, I wonder why AJ Griffin didn't play more after Quin arrived on the scene.  After pondering this for a while, I wonder if Quin saw something that needed to be corrected that would take some time.  If so, just let him coast until the off-season and then work on the problem.

Is AJ Griffin as good as Spud and I believe he is?  Personally, I believe he's as close to untouchable as any Hawk currently on the Atlanta roster.  

[JayBirdHawk]

24 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

Aside from hitting the rookie wall, I wonder why AJ Griffin didn't play more after Quin arrived on the scene.  After pondering this for a while, I wonder if Quin saw something that needed to be corrected that would take some time.  If so, just let him coast until the off-season and then work on the problem.

Is AJ Griffin as good as Spud and I believe he is?  Personally, I believe he's as close to untouchable as any Hawk currently on the Atlanta roster.  

It also coincided with the addition of Bey and JJ getting more playing time.

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

2023 Re-Draft

 

11. AJ Griffin | 6-6 wing | Atlanta Hawks | original selection: No. 16

I was pretty stunned that Griffin got pulled from the Atlanta rotation after Quin Snyder took over, as he’d been a useful floor-spacer surrounding Trae Young and Dejounte Murray throughout the early portion of the season. Griffin averaged about nine point per game this season and shot 47 percent from the field, 39 percent from 3 and 89 percent from the line. In every way imaginable, Griffin came through on the immense shooting potential he showcased at Duke and throughout his time at lower levels. More importantly, I also thought Griffin showcased much better athletic pop for the Hawks than he did at Duke, when he coming off an early season knee injury. He regained some of the explosiveness as a straight-line driver that made him one of the top prospects in the 2021 recruiting class prior to a few other high school injuries. As long as Griffin stays healthy, he’s going to be very valuable. The Hawks beat teams this season by 2.2 points per 100 possessions when he was on the court and actually lost their minutes when he was off the court. Griffin is the kind of skilled, bigger floor-spacer whom every team is looking to acquire. The Hawks have one.

https://theathletic.com/4355853/2023/05/09/nba-draft-paolo-banchero-chet-holmgren/

I think it's evident that he hit the wall way harder than a lot of rookies.  There were some games that he played midseason and it was like... Please take him out.   Part of it, I believe, is that he's never had to play this many games with travel before.   Even at Duke, he didn't play a whole season.  Most Rookies hit a wall.. mostly due to the 82 game schedule and mostly the travel.  I expect him to be better next season.. and his shooting is going to be just what we need. 

 

 

[shakes]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

yeah i guess so but Trae got only 2 of 100 first place votes for ROY despite his numbers being very comparable to Luka.  So i think voters are applying some other criteria.  

yes, the other criteria is narrative.    Narrative that year started with Doncic's hot start coupled with Trae's rough start and even after Trae picked it up mid December the narrative never changed.

 

I guarantee no one was looking at advanced stats before placing their vite

[Diesel]

27 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

I wonder if Quin saw something that needed to be corrected that would take some time.

One thing that I believe is that you didn't want him losing confidence in his shot.   The other thing that I've heard Rowland and others talk about is the coaches not trusting his defense.   But look at his three point shooting..

 

February is brutal. 

We should be excited about January though.

 

[JayBirdHawk]

5 minutes ago, Diesel said:

February is brutal. 

Allstar game festivities probably a factor.

[AHF]

23 hours ago, shakes said:

counting stats should be the ONLY stats used in determining ROY.     PPG, APG, RPG....that's pretty much it.

Strong disagree.  Counting stats don't reflect quality of performance.  They reflect minutes and shot attempts regardless of effectiveness or efficiency.  

I thought we were past thinking that counting stats were a smart way of Antoine Walker style evaluating players.

Let's look at an example:

Malaki Branham took 9.3 shots per game to score 10.2 points per game

AJ Griffin took 7.4 shots to score 8.9 points per game

So you think it is more impressive to score 1.3 points on 1.9 additional shots?  That is TERRIBLE production on those additional two shots per game.  Abhorrent.  Why would you ever reward someone for simply taking more shots?

23 hours ago, shakes said:

I think it's nonsense to apply any advanced stats to rookie of the year discussion.

 

Win shares?  Who cares?  We're talking about an award that usually goes to guys on the worst teams in the league.

What does this even mean?  Do you think Win Shares are driven primarily by the number of wins a team gets or something?  That is just not the case.  There is no reason not to evaluate rookies by the same standard as any other player.

Example:

John Collins rookie season - Hawks won 24 games and JC played less than 1,800 minutes. JC finished with 5.4 Win Shares.  Why?  He was highly productive and efficient.  

Indy won 35 games this year and their top 2 rookie played over 2,000 minutes each.  So they should finish with a bunch more WS than JC, right?  Well, they finished with 1.8 and 1.2 Win Shares respectively.  Why did they finish with 20%-33% as many win shares?  They were significantly less productive and efficient.

Chucking lots of shots and playing lots of minutes is not enough to be a good player.  PPG is a bad way of evaluating scorers without taking into account how many shots they took to get those points.  This is where AJ had a historic rookie season.  The reason he shouldn't be in consideration for ROY is obvious:  he didn't play enough.  So you balance the minutes against the production in those minutes.  You have to take both into consideration.

Using raw PPG, RPG, etc. just tell you the number of shots and minutes played, not how well the player performed in those minutes.