As a Hawk fan who do you want to win the lottery?

[macdaddy]

10 minutes ago, AHF said:

 

Agree that what the NBA is doing today is much better than the NFL but at a bottomline level what the NBA does today does not stop teams from tanking.  And I'm not just talking about the worst teams like San Antonio who it is obvious are not competing coming into the season or very early in the season.  Dallas was in the playoff hunt and tanked at the end of the season as well.  I'm not sure what the solution is for this.  The reward just outweighs the negatives given the impact of a single player and the difference in value between high lottery picks, lottery picks, and non-lottery picks.  Blatant tanking happens in the NFL, MLB, NBA, etc.  Only eliminating the draft seems like a true solution but that creates a 'permanent' situation of "haves" and "have nots" like in the Premier League and other professional soccer leagues.  One thing that could be taken from those leagues that I do like, however, is relegation so that teams are desperate not to finish at the bottom of the standings.

The odds should be weighted by your last 3 seasons.  Not just the most recent ones.  Granted Pop has been tanking for the last 3 so wouldn't have changed anything here but in general it would eliminate the Tim Duncan scenario.  

[warcore]

7 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

We don’t need pick #3 tho, we need vets to win. We already crazy young with our core minus CC.

ownership won't pay the tax twice... they may pay it once this year with the plans be under next season to prevent repeat offense. 

Offloading a big long contract like Dre or JC and resetting for another young piece on a rookie contract that may fit our roster better could help us out. 

[AHF]

5 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

The odds should be weighted by your last 3 seasons.  Not just the most recent ones.  Granted Pop has been tanking for the last 3 so wouldn't have changed anything here but in general it would eliminate the Tim Duncan scenario.  

Would you only do that for teams that are currently in the lottery this season or do that for all teams?  I'm thinking about a scenario like San Antonio next year if they dramatically improve this season.  So if they just miss the playoffs next year would they actually be in a strong position for the lottery based on their weighting from the prior 2 seasons?  What if they make the playoffs but they would be say the 7th worst team on a 3 year basis?

[Spud2nique]

2 hours ago, macdaddy said:

Yeah just all out blatant tanking again by the spurs and they are rewarded for it.  There's got to be a better system than this.  

It’s hilarious to me. If I look extremely stereotypically at this, this Wemby kid fits the bill of the Spurs to a T. I mean think about it, he’s a foreign French dude, (Tony Parker spurs) he is a super cool customer on and off the court. Seems to be straight as an arrow aka anti waving players (not naming names) and he’s a transcendent center.

 

The more I think about it, the more I’m ok with this thing being rigged for the Spurs. 
 

I still agree the system is faulty. 

[Spud2nique]

19 minutes ago, warcore said:

Offloading a big long contract like Dre or JC and resetting for another young piece on a rookie contract that may fit our roster better could help us out. 

Perhaps you’re right with the way the league is ran today, I mean you got younger dudes stepping up both in the playing and coaching lanes and they are good and ready.

 

However, in the old days and still today, usually the champion’s squad is filled with vets and only a few younguns. I don’t remember the last time a younger age squad won it. If it’s a rookie it can’t be a raw rookie that’s 19 unless it’s Wemby lol. Most aren’t ready for it. It needs to be a mature junior senior dude comin out hungry, like a Draymond did. Excuse me while I puke (mentioning Draymond makes me physically I’ll I apologize).

[Spud2nique]

13 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

I love the Pacific Northwest ya I’ll ride.

My cheat team might be the Blazers @kg01. General area of the SuperSonics. Rooted for them in 92 to beat the pants off Mike. Drexler, Porter, how much is a worth? Jerome . Roy bad luck great dude, Aldridge nice player and fairly went about his business in a pro manner. 
 

And Dame, yes, your Kemba.  He’s the real deal and he’s growing on me more off the court than on. He’s loyal and the franchise is showing loyalty in return, plus he’s an Oaktown boy. 
 

Also, they are shopping the 3rd pick to continue building around Dame. I dunno, maybe I’m buying what they’re selling more than cracker type franchises these days. I like that loyalty thing.

Go Portland go.

 

     

Edited May 17, 2023 by Spud2nique

[Sothron]

There's no way to stop tanking. Unless the NBA relegated teams and took away their shared profits as a consequence. Then no team would ever tank because the financial hit would be too much for a chance to get a high pick even for a kid like Victor.

[warcore]

33 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Also, they are shopping the 3rd pick to continue building around Dame. I dunno, maybe I’m buying what they’re selling more than cracker type franchises these days. I like that loyalty thing.

[macdaddy]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

Would you only do that for teams that are currently in the lottery this season or do that for all teams?  I'm thinking about a scenario like San Antonio next year if they dramatically improve this season.  So if they just miss the playoffs next year would they actually be in a strong position for the lottery based on their weighting from the prior 2 seasons?  What if they make the playoffs but they would be say the 7th worst team on a 3 year basis?

Good question.  I think exclude the top 6 in each conference from the lottery and that will avoid a Dallas situation from this year where they'd rather be in the lottery than the play in. 

[sturt]

56 minutes ago, Sothron said:

There's no way to stop tanking. Unless the NBA relegated teams and took away their shared profits as a consequence. Then no team would ever tank because the financial hit would be too much for a chance to get a high pick even for a kid like Victor.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-to-stop-nba-tanking-tie-your-fate-to-another-teams-record/

 

[JayBirdHawk]

I don't like tanking but I've accepted it.  Teams want the best young talent they can get when they aren't good enough.

 

[sturt]

On 5/17/2023 at 12:00 PM, sturt said:

On 5/17/2023 at 11:03 AM, Sothron said:

There's no way to stop tanking. Unless the NBA relegated teams and took away their shared profits as a consequence. Then no team would ever tank because the financial hit would be too much for a chance to get a high pick even for a kid like Victor.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-to-stop-nba-tanking-tie-your-fate-to-another-teams-record/

 

Hindsight, I should have said that I think there's merit in the concept of relegation. Though effective, really difficult to conceive that NBA would go for it. (Personally, I devised a "NBA Re-Envisioned" plan a couple of years ago, but just for the heckuvit... the inventor part of my brain enjoyed the process.)

Now, you've also suggested some team financial penalty tied to share of NBA profits. That seems more realistic to me, and as a result, compelling to think more about. Even that, though, seems tricky once you begin to deal with the devil in the details, cognizant of the balancing act between too much penalty and too little--and that, for different owners, that balancing act would look somewhat different based on their own personal wealth and the size of their market.

 

So, as suggested in the link provided, I believe the best solution is a concept that disconnects Team X's draft slot fate from Team X's own W/L outcome.

Now, there is a problem with the concept as presented by the FiveThirtyEight winner, but one that's easily remedied.

It's that, if it's the case that Team X's GM knows what other team (and its W/L outcome) is assigned to be the proxy for his own Team X's draft slot fate... then, obviously, there is incentive to lose those games against that opponent.

Solution: Games against that opponent are removed from the equation so that there is an "adjusted W/L%" that is actually applicable to the final results that set the draft order.

 

[JayBirdHawk]

Geez! He is tall, he is towering over Goberated!