2023-24 NBA Free Agency 06/30 at 6PM

[kg01]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

I'm kind of mixed on my feelings on this.  On the one hand, there is no doubt that this hurts his value.  But on the other hand, he isn't a free agent.  If you trade for him, he is under contract for like 4 more years so how much leverage does he really have? Is he going to miss out on that salary and refuse to play?  No way.  Is he going to pout and pull a Harden where he doesn't try?  I think this is the worst case scenario.  But if that is the case you can still trade him because this isn't like a Siakam who can walk as an UFA after next season.  

I kind of think if this destroys Lillard's value, how low should Siakam's value be?

I hope he does sit out.  He's not young.  He doesn't have many prime years left.  People talk about the dude like he got rings.  Sorry, he doesn't.  And yes, POR had some lean years but they've had talent around him.  Does anyone remember when they went up against GS when they had the best iteration of their team?  Nope, because they got beat so fast, it barely registered.

Folks always talking about the long shots and dAmE TiMe!  Well, as I always say, there's a reason they're always needing miracle a** shots to stay in games. 

It's 'cause he ain't. that. Great! 

[kg01]

5 minutes ago, ShooterSays said:

If Miami doesn't have the return you want and he'll literally only play for Miami, then let him sit at home. Tired of these divas not honoring their contracts and then demanding where and when they get traded.

I agree to a point.  Are teams "not honoring" the contract they sign when they trade the player?  It's really the same thing.

He's honoring his contract.  He's just not honoring the spirit of the 'business' he's chosen.  The business he chose can trade him as the team sees fit.  

Yeah, it's a bit of a hair-split, and I agree with your general premise and outrage. 

[ABH]

10 minutes ago, ShooterSays said:

If Miami doesn't have the return you want and he'll literally only play for Miami, then let him sit at home. Tired of these divas not honoring their contracts and then demanding where and when they get traded.

[macdaddy]

With Dame it's a little different though because he has repeatedly said he wants to be in Portland.  Even recently.  It's only the front office basically admitting that they need rebuild and really need him gone that he's saying ok and Miami only.  So i don't fault him for being direct and looking out for himself.  

I wonder if we can get in on this deal and pull Caleb Martin.  Dude looked good in the playoffs.  Of course we now have about 18 wings. 

[AHF]

8 minutes ago, kg01 said:

I agree to a point.  Are teams "not honoring" the contract they sign when they trade the player?  It's really the same thing.

He's honoring his contract.  He's just not honoring the spirit of the 'business' he's chosen.  The business he chose can trade him as the team sees fit.  

Yeah, it's a bit of a hair-split, and I agree with your general premise and outrage. 

A player honors his contract if he plays and gives good faith effort to help his team win.

A team honors their contract if they pay the player and otherwise live up to the terms of the contract.

It is a team's prerogative to trade a player, not a player's prerogative to force a team while under contract.  It is a player's or a team's prerogative to exercise an option to prematurely end a contract if that is part of the contract.  It is a player's prerogative to exercise a no-trade clause to block a trade if they have negotiated those terms into the contract.  

In the context of things that might tank someone's trade value, I don't think saying you have a preferred location is any issue for a player.  Implying that you won't honor your contract by playing for a new team is not honoring your contract, however.  That is a step over the line.  Likewise, it is a non-issue for a player like Siakam to say he won't be resign somewhere if he doesn't want to.  However, saying he will refuse to play is a breach of his commitment and not honoring the contract.

[ShooterSays]

3 minutes ago, kg01 said:

I agree to a point.  Are teams "not honoring" the contract they sign when they trade the player?  It's really the same thing.

He's honoring his contract.  He's just not honoring the spirit of the 'business' he's chosen.  The business he chose can trade him as the team sees fit.  

Yeah, it's a bit of a hair-split, and I agree with your general premise and outrage. 

Not even remotely the same thing. Player still gets paid when he's traded. Portland is most likely going to get 10 cents on the dollar for their superstar.

[kg01]

3 minutes ago, AHF said:

A player honors his contract if he plays and gives good faith effort to help his team win.

A team honors their contract if they pay the player and otherwise live up to the terms of the contract.

It is a team's prerogative to trade a player, not a player's prerogative to force a team while under contract.  It is a player's or a team's prerogative to exercise an option to prematurely end a contract if that is part of the contract.  It is a player's prerogative to exercise a no-trade clause to block a trade if they have negotiated those terms into the contract.  

In the context of things that might tank someone's trade value, I don't think saying you have a preferred location is any issue for a player.  Implying that you won't honor your contract by playing for a new team is not honoring your contract, however.  That is a step over the line.  Likewise, it is a non-issue for a player like Siakam to say he won't be resign somewhere if he doesn't want to.  However, saying he will refuse to play is a breach of his commitment and not honoring the contract.

 

3 minutes ago, ShooterSays said:

Not even remotely the same thing. Player still gets paid when he's traded. Portland is most likely going to get 10 cents on the dollar for their superstar.

My response is the same to you both.  He hasn't not played yet, so the outrage there is premature. 

Is this the weirdest disagreement between agreeing parties ever?  Hah 

[ShooterSays]

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

My response is the same to you both.  He hasn't not played yet, so the outrage there is premature. 

Is this the weirdest disagreement between agreeing parties ever?  Hah

Demanding to be traded is essentially telling them I'm not playing here anymore lol

He's screwing them and it's pretty obvious.

[AHF]

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

 

My response is the same to you both.  He hasn't not played yet, so the outrage there is premature. 

Is this the weirdest disagreement between agreeing parties ever?  Hah 

If he isn't signaling to other teams that he won't play for them then that isn't a problem.  To me the problem arises not when he actually plays or not but when he communicates that he doesn't intend to honor his contract if he doesn't go where he wants.  

If he isn't signaling to other teams that he won't play for them, then Portland should still be able to get a fair value for him in a trade.  If he is communicating to teams that he will only play for Miami and if another team trades for him they shouldn't expect him to ever suit up, then he is undermining Portland in a bad faith manner and not honoring his contract. 

Communicating an intent to breach your contract is not honoring your contract. 

[AHF]

Just now, ShooterSays said:

Demanding to be traded is essentially telling them I'm not playing here anymore lol

He's screwing them and it's pretty obvious.

I don't think him demanding a trade is necessarily a problem in this context if he isn't saying to Portland "trade me or I'm never playing again."  I think part of the motivation here is a product of how Portland is team building and the timeline for Portland to contend getting out of sync with Dame's remaining career.  In that case, asking to be traded is reasonable so long as he isn't threatening to refuse to play.

In fairness to Lillard, I haven't seen anything from him that would cross that line.  It is second or third hand reporting that suggests he could be doing so.

[terrell]

58 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

No matter how many impressive moves in a highlight you show, the guy still shoots 48% from the field as a power forward and 32.4% from 3.

Thats better FG% than KD

His 3pt % is a problem though imo on a team that needs shooting..

You arent winning in todays NBA without 3 pt shooting..

We only have 2 shooters(Bogi/Bey) that when they shoot I think it might go in.. lol

I would include AJ in this but he was building houses late in the season when he got some min....

 

[macdaddy]

Quote

Lillard had contemplated requesting a trade when he met with the Blazers and Cronin on Monday, but wanted to give them every opportunity to improve the roster as free agency opened so he remained as quiet and supportive as he could this week, sources said. On Friday night, he made the decision to ask for a trade.

Lillard has stuck with the franchise that chose him with the No. 6 pick in the 2012 NBA draft through two seasons in which Portland did not make the postseason following eight consecutive trips. But after the Blazers opted to use their No. 3 pick in last month's draft on guard Scoot Henderson, the future direction of the franchise was clear.

He's been about as loyal as anyone recently.  drafting Scoot and not really having plans to do anything else was just the Blazers forcing his hand really.  

[kg01]

8 minutes ago, ShooterSays said:

Demanding to be traded is essentially telling them I'm not playing here anymore lol

He's screwing them and it's pretty obvious.

 

8 minutes ago, AHF said:

If he isn't signaling to other teams that he won't play for them then that isn't a problem.  To me the problem arises not when he actually plays or not but when he communicates that he doesn't intend to honor his contract if he doesn't go where he wants.  

If he isn't signaling to other teams that he won't play for them, then Portland should still be able to get a fair value for him in a trade.  If he is communicating to teams that he will only play for Miami and if another team trades for him they shouldn't expect him to ever suit up, then he is undermining Portland in a bad faith manner and not honoring his contract. 

Communicating an intent to breach your contract is not honoring your contract. 

Yeah, I guess you jerks are right?  Him hinting he'll only play for Liami is the problem.

Happy now?  I tried to calm down but you guys gave me reason to stay mad. 

[Diesel]

16 minutes ago, ShooterSays said:

If Miami doesn't have the return you want and he'll literally only play for Miami, then let him sit at home. Tired of these divas not honoring their contracts and then demanding where and when they get traded.

It's an interesting conversation that @ShooterSays

Honoring the contract. 

Is there the expectation that the team will do what it can to be in a winning position?

It's a real question because if PTL for instance... decided that we wanted to tank... does Lillard have to go along with that?

I've seen times where a contract says that if a guy gets say a scoring average of 20 ppg... that the team will pay him an extract 2 million dollars.  But as the end of the year comes, the team let him start and took him out after 8 minutes to lower his scoring average.  Is that honoring the contract?

When a player signs with a specific team and that team trades him.. does that mean that the team didn't honor it's contract?  I mean, JC didn't sign on to play with Utah.. if that's what he wanted, he would have went to Utah and made a deal. 

Honoring contracts is a very loose disignation in the NBA. Obviously, it doesn't have anything to do with loyalty to that team.  Just loyalty to the terms of the contract and whoever holds it. 

 

 

[HawksNWaffles]

 

1 minute ago, terrell said:

but he was building houses late in the season

You gotta build a house before you can shoot in the driveway..... 

 

 

 

 

I'm bored don't mind me.

[LucastheThird]

14 minutes ago, AHF said:

A player honors his contract if he plays and gives good faith effort to help his team win.

A team honors their contract if they pay the player and otherwise live up to the terms of the contract.

It is a team's prerogative to trade a player, not a player's prerogative to force a team while under contract.  It is a player's or a team's prerogative to exercise an option to prematurely end a contract if that is part of the contract.  It is a player's prerogative to exercise a no-trade clause to block a trade if they have negotiated those terms into the contract.  

Scenario:

Your boss comes up to you today and tells you, you are being traded to Wal-Mart. You have no say, it's happened, and you have to go help Walmart be the best company. Has your now previous employer upheld their part of your contract to work for them? 

Professional sports athletes are the only profession we have that can be traded between companies without any input from the 'employee', and nobody cares. It's actually the opposite, we tell the athletes to deal with it and play their hardest for the new team. 

I fully support any athlete using any leverage they have to put themselves in a favorable position. Especially one like Dame, who has done everything he can to be loyal to Portland and win a Championship for them. He stayed multiple times when the whole league was telling him to force his way out or leave in free agency, now Portland has to reward that loyalty. 

[Final_quest]

Just now, macdaddy said:

He's been about as loyal as anyone recently.  drafting Scoot and not really having plans to do anything else was just the Blazers forcing his hand really.  

I am wondering the same.  Don't know if Dame flipped the script on them, or if the Blazers kept making moves in an effort to prompt Dame to ask out.  Really don't care to research which is more accurate.  

[ShooterSays]

2 minutes ago, Diesel said:

It's an interesting conversation that @ShooterSays

Honoring the contract. 

Is there the expectation that the team will do what it can to be in a winning position?

It's a real question because if PTL for instance... decided that we wanted to tank... does Lillard have to go along with that?

I've seen times where a contract says that if a guy gets say a scoring average of 20 ppg... that the team will pay him an extract 2 million dollars.  But as the end of the year comes, the team let him start and took him out after 8 minutes to lower his scoring average.  Is that honoring the contract?

When a player signs with a specific team and that team trades him.. does that mean that the team didn't honor it's contract?  I mean, JC didn't sign on to play with Utah.. if that's what he wanted, he would have went to Utah and made a deal. 

Honoring contracts is a very loose disignation in the NBA. Obviously, it doesn't have anything to do with loyalty to that team.  Just loyalty to the terms of the contract and whoever holds it. 

 

 

It’s trade me to ONLY Miami that I have the biggest issue with. 

If he gave them 5 teams who could get into a bidding war, I wouldn’t have such a strong opinion on this.

[terrell]

50 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Not attacking you, but I got some bones to pick on this.

So, on the one hand, all these mouthpieces keep saying how professional Dame is.  And how he'll show up and be professional wherever he lands.

But on the other hand, these same mouthpieces are telling folks ...

- Bwatch out, no team wanna deal with a disgruntled star.

- Uh oh, he'll only play for one team.

Well, which is it?  Because it can't be both.

I'm so sick of these gutless media personalities masquerading as something other than the puppets they are.  Look, I'm fine if they're puppets.  Just call yourself what you are.  Some work for Klutch and, surprise, all their "intel" is Klutch-favorable.

Others work for teams, lookin at you Woj, and shockingly all their intel usually has a slant for certain teams.

And did anybody GAF who Windhorst was before Lebron put the penny in his slot and wound him up?

Yet they all sit on TV and pretend to be impartial.  It's amazing that we all still eat it up.  Shame on us.

I've seen enough! 

Its all just entertainment to me.. lol.. 

I cant get into WNBA(Im trying Dream Im trying).... or Tennis.. 

 

Edited July 5, 2023 by terrell

[AHF]

7 minutes ago, LucastheThird said:

Scenario:

Your boss comes up to you today and tells you, you are being traded to Wal-Mart. You have no say, it's happened, and you have to go help Walmart be the best company. Has your now previous employer upheld their part of your contract to work for them? 

Professional sports athletes are the only profession we have that can be traded between companies without any input from the 'employee', and nobody cares. It's actually the opposite, we tell the athletes to deal with it and play their hardest for the new team. 

I fully support any athlete using any leverage they have to put themselves in a favorable position. Especially one like Dame, who has done everything he can to be loyal to Portland and win a Championship for them. He stayed multiple times when the whole league was telling him to force his way out or leave in free agency, now Portland has to reward that loyalty. 

The reason this analogy breaks down is that I'm not guaranteed over $200 million over the next 4 years.  Lillard is.  

I am an at will employee.  My boss can fire me for any legal reason tomorrow (he doesn't like my wardrobe, he thinks I'm not worth my salary, etc.) and not owe me a penny.

Lillard could negotiate a non-guaranteed contract where either side can terminate it at any time and be just like me.  Then if he is traded he can walk and sign somewhere else just like I can.

He can be like Bradley Beal and only sign a contract with a no trade clause.  

Why does he sacrifice his ability to have the freedom to leave his team at any time?  Because he wants his $200 million to be guaranteed.  By signing a guaranteed contract WITHOUT a no trade clause he puts himself in the position to get traded.  

If you tell me that I have to go work for Wal-Mart but that I'm guaranteed $200 million over the next 4 years, you can best believe I'm moving to Little Rock or wherever they want me.