UNTraeDABLE

[JayBirdHawk]

47 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

Problem is while Trae has seemingly stagnated.....

I disagree.  I think he's playing differently and fans are screaming for him to be off ball, stop hoggin' all the shots, play defense etc....He's doing all that.  He's not dominating each possession like he did his first 2 years when it was him and the JC PnR game. Just need to get his efficiency up.

[JayBirdHawk]

17 minutes ago, AHF said:

That is true, although it is more of something that is anecdotal for me since I can see individual plays that frustrate all of us but I'm not seeing a true deep dive on that along with benchmarking.  (I.e., if he had 3 "blown" plays a game but an average SF had 2 a game that is less troubling than if he had 3 a game and an average SF has 0.5.)  Moreover, I'm much happier to live with him not grabbing the ball off the floor from time to time if his overall rebounding is up (as it was early this season), his deflections and steals are up (as they were early this season), etc.   But the injury definitely isn't the cause for those specific plays so I can't argue about that.

I need him to be assertive and aggressive. Shoot the 3 without hesitation! Stop messing around with the ball.

edited: I also need Saddiq to let his 3 ball fly - stop messing around with the ball.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

4 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

Problem is while Trae has seemingly stagnated there are now a few other young PGs blowing up. Not sure he's a top 3 PG in the conference anymore. 

 

Jalen's +/- on the court lead the team.  And his +/- differential is off the charts.  This is why some people are saying that he's our best player at the moment.

Everyone above the green line is + on the court, and their net on/off is +

Only 2 rotation guys aren't.

Side note:  Although in very limited games, you kind of see why AJ isn't playing any more.

 

[JayBirdHawk]

19 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I disagree.  I think he's playing differently and fans are screaming for him to be off ball, stop hoggin' all the shots, play defense etc....He's doing all that.  He's not dominating each possession like he did his first 2 years when it was him and the JC PnR game. Just need to get his efficiency up.

@TheNorthCydeRises  What does our Trae/CC and Trae/JJ lob amounts look like?

[JayBirdHawk]

4 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

I didn't realize that Hunter is playing that much at PF? as is Saddiq at SF?

[TheNorthCydeRises]

13 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

@TheNorthCydeRises  What does our Trae/CC and Trae/JJ lob amounts look like?

Trae to CC . . . 7 for 9 on alley oops

Trae to JJ . . . . 5 for 7 on alley oops

[JayBirdHawk]

2 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Trae to CC . . . 7 for 9 on alley oops

Trae to JJ . . . . 5 for 7 on alley oops

what were the numbers last year after the first 12 games?  particularly to CC.

[bleachkit]

57 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

What's the question?  We know that he is struggling with his efficiency.

The question as to whether he is a legit bonafide "superstar" or however you want to term it or define it.

[Atlantaholic]

58 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I disagree.  I think he's playing differently and fans are screaming for him to be off ball, stop hoggin' all the shots, play defense etc....He's doing all that.  He's not dominating each possession like he did his first 2 years when it was him and the JC PnR game. Just need to get his efficiency up.

I mean in terms of his overall value and WAR production to the team. I'm not saying he isn't improving any facet of his game, but are you seriously telling me you are taking Trae from 2022-2023 over  Trae of 2021-2022? His assist production and defense have steadily improved but his efficiency has plummeted, from 59-60% to below 57% in his last 82+ games. This for sure 100% needs to change or the Hawks don't have a prayer in the absolutely loaded conference. What's crazy is Trae is getting arguably better shots, taking less bad shots, and yet scoring much less efficiently this year, which shouldn't make any sense. It's a small sample just this season but going back to last year we are seeing less shooting and less efficiency since DJM joined the team, and really we should be expecting and getting the exact opposite in terms of efficiency from Trae. He is so streaky that this hopefully changes, but his streakiness in and of itself can make it difficult to justify him being our super max guy.  

And this is all just me musing about our legit chances of a championship with Trae as our number 1 guy. I have no doubt that Trae can have is in the playoffs winning a series here and there for the next decade.

[AHF]

24 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

I mean in terms of his overall value and WAR production to the team. I'm not saying he isn't improving any facet of his game, but are you seriously telling me you are taking Trae from 2022-2023 over  Trae of 2021-2022? His assist production and defense have steadily improved but his efficiency has plummeted, from 59-60% to below 57% in his last 82+ games. This for sure 100% needs to change or the Hawks don't have a prayer in the absolutely loaded conference. What's crazy is Trae is getting arguably better shots, taking less bad shots, and yet scoring much less efficiently this year, which shouldn't make any sense. It's a small sample just this season but going back to last year we are seeing less shooting and less efficiency since DJM joined the team, and really we should be expecting and getting the exact opposite in terms of efficiency from Trae. He is so streaky that this hopefully changes, but his streakiness in and of itself can make it difficult to justify him being our super max guy.  

And this is all just me musing about our legit chances of a championship with Trae as our number 1 guy. I have no doubt that Trae can have is in the playoffs winning a series here and there for the next decade.

I think you obviously take Trae's shooting of 2021-22 over today's and you take everything else about his game today.  Even if he was playing over his head in 2021-22, he has to get closer to there than where he was last year or where he has been this year for us to dream about winning anything significant for sure.  Shooting is something that people do better in some seasons than others but it has been a rough last year for Trae.

58 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I didn't realize that Hunter is playing that much at PF? as is Saddiq at SF?

Seems to me like they are crediting minutes played when they are both on the floor as time for Hunter at PF and time for Bey at SF.  Not sure that actually represents who they are guarding as we generally have Hunter on a wing and, to my eyes, more often have Bey guarding an opposing PF.  I could be wrong though and just not have processed the games correctly.  I wasn't focused on that for sure.

[Spud2nique]

Trae haters that wanna trade him are just being [short-sighted]! 

[JayBirdHawk]

30 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

What's crazy is Trae is getting arguably better shots, taking less bad shots, and yet scoring much less efficiently this year, which shouldn't make any sense.

That's the most confusing! I read something that where he is getting the shot attempts is different (but I have not looked into that to verify).  His floater which was money is the most surprising thing, but to me his shot seems hurried at times. Missed those days when you couldn't tell if he was passing a lob or shooting that floater.

Get that on track, all else should follow.

[Diesel]

5 hours ago, AtLaS said:

He just needs to fix his shot.  If he can get back to his career averages I'll be quiet.  If he was shooting career average we'd probably be 8-4 or better right now.  

There's where my hat is hanging too.  Some of it may be adjusting to new system, some of it is just practicing his way back to better shots and better shot selection against bigger defenders. 

[Diesel]

5 hours ago, Final_quest said:

Starting to believe we have another JC on our hands where there is no return for a player we once deemed as core.  

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, Atlantaholic said:

Problem is while Trae has seemingly stagnated there are now a few other young PGs blowing up. Not sure he's a top 3 PG in the conference anymore. He needs to regain the level he was showing two years ago for us to be a contender, and DJM needs to be at around 22ppg in 58+TS to go along with it. Not sure either of those things are too realistic though. 

I know your answer but I will ask anyway...

Would you trade Trae for Dearron Fox?

How about Haliburton?

 

[Atlantaholic]

26 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

That's the most confusing! I read something that where he is getting the shot attempts is different (but I have not looked into that to verify).  His floater which was money is the most surprising thing, but to me his shot seems hurried at times. Missed those days when you couldn't tell if he was passing a lob or shooting that floater.

Get that on track, all else should follow.

He was a walking bucket in 2021-22, basically could score at will. Really been a struggle the last 80 + games. If this was 2021 I wouldn't care so much, but look around the east the amount of scoring and talent is on another level then when the Hawks made their run. Trae needs to develop into an MVP type player for the Hawks to win championships because fact is every other contending team has an MVP type player. 

[Spud2nique]

Good god you can’t say SELF LOATHING on this site? You gotta be kidding me? Holy f*ck that can’t be not PC can it? I need clarity on this matter ..  

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, Atlantaholic said:

He was a walking bucket in 2021-22, basically could score at will. Really been a struggle the last 80 + games

I think part of that was he had the green light to just 'do his thing'....now he has to play a more nuanced game with better players around him, an actual designed offense and more equal share in the offense. 

[Atlantaholic]

4 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I know your answer but I will ask anyway...

Would you trade Trae for Dearron Fox?

How about Haliburton?

 

It wouldn't matter if I were willing to trade him for those two players because there is a 0% chance Indy and Sacramento would take that trade unless we attach several picks or Jalen Johnson to the trade request. 

 

 

[Spud2nique]

7 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Good god you can’t say SELF LOATHING on this site? You gotta be kidding me? Holy f*ck that can’t be not PC can it? I need clarity on this matter ..  

medical term.