UNTraeDABLE

[benhillboy]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

That's the most confusing! I read something that where he is getting the shot attempts is different (but I have not looked into that to verify).  His floater which was money is the most surprising thing, but to me his shot seems hurried at times. Missed those days when you couldn't tell if he was passing a lob or shooting that floater.

Get that on track, all else should follow.

His shot charts from last season and current:

The floater is definitely something that he and the staff have to problem solve.  
 

His most efficient shot being long twos from the left wing isn’t ideal either although the staff has decreased his attempts from the opposite wing.  

Threes along the break of the arc have been limited as well.  I’ve always thought that was the most ideal three in terms of depth perception and feel.  He didn’t shoot great from there last season but kept the defense honest enough.

Needs more catch and shoot opportunities from the top.  

Seems he’s totally abandoned the corner three to my chagrin.  Super small sample but he shoots .448 from there in his career smh.

Shooting so poorly at the rim is a fatal flaw, one that won’t be corrected until the Hawks get some semblance of a damn stretch 5 so he can isolate on Cs and drive quickly with no shot blocking present.  Advanced metrics grade those misses the harshest because 1) it’s a damn layup and 2) they usually lead to points going back the other way with 5 on 4s.

Edited November 20, 2023 by benhillboy

[benhillboy]

DJ needs to be much more active off the ball.  He doesn’t make intuitive moves based on ideal spacing nor cut hard to create confusion for the defense.  Bogi is much better.

Edited November 20, 2023 by benhillboy

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

what were the numbers last year after the first 12 games?  particularly to CC.

That would be a little harder to find.  Would have to search through each individual game.

[JayBirdHawk]

13 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

His shot charts from last season and current:

The floater is definitely something that he and the staff have to problem solve.  
 

His most efficient shot being long twos from the left wing isn’t ideal either although the staff has decreased his attempts from the opposite wing.  

Threes along the break of the arc have been limited as well.  I’ve always thought that was the most ideal three in terms of depth perception and feel.  He didn’t shoot great from there last season but kept the defense honest enough.

Needs more catch and shoot opportunities from the top.  

Seems he’s totally abandoned the corner three to my chagrin.  Super small sample but he shoots .448 from there in his career smh.

Shooting so poorly at the rim is a fatal flaw, one that won’t be corrected until the Hawks get some semblance of a damn stretch 5 so he can isolate on Cs and drive quickly with no shot blocking present.  Advanced metrics grade those misses the harshest because 1) it’s a damn layup and 2) they usually lead to points going back the other way with 5 on 4s.

It's hard for me to look at both since the latter is just 11 games. He said last offseason, his focus was on his midrange shot in preparation for NateBall - yuck.

Agreed on more CnS in general, the above the break 3s (like @TheNorthCydeRises says - shoot the bomb). Agreed on floor spreading C to soften up the middle.

[JayBirdHawk]

7 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

That would be a little harder to find.  Would have to search through each individual game.

How long will that take you?

[AHF]

Just now, JayBirdHawk said:

How long will that take you?

What is the thought on comparing first 12 games vs first 12 games rather than this year versus last year?

[JayBirdHawk]

Just now, AHF said:

What is the thought on comparing first 12 games vs first 12 games rather than this year versus last year?

Just looking at the lob attempts this vs last year: make or miss.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

3 hours ago, bleachkit said:

I mean, points and assists is Trae's thing. I would expect him to do well in a stat like that. The question is about efficiency.

 

He's helping the efficiency of others, even if his own shooting efficiency is trash right now.  The amount of 3 point assists he's generating has to be 2nd only to Haliburton.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

13 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

It's hard for me to look at both since the latter is just 11 games. He said last offseason, his focus was on his midrange shot in preparation for NateBall - yuck.

Agreed on more CnS in general, the above the break 3s (like @TheNorthCydeRises says - shoot the bomb). Agreed on floor spreading C to soften up the middle.

 

This is the shot he needs to kill. To me, this looked like something he's worked on, but it is his most rushed shot.

 

 

Also . . shoot the bomb, Trae

 

[AHF]

20 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Just looking at the lob attempts this vs last year: make or miss.

I think that should be easy for North.  Compare what has happened YTD this season versus CC's last season.  North  has the numbers easily available for last season but not broken out into the first 12 games.  So if you are looking at last year, that should be easily doable.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

26 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

How long will that take you?

Clint last October

 

Clint last November

 

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I think part of that was he had the green light to just 'do his thing'....now he has to play a more nuanced game with better players around him, an actual designed offense and more equal share in the offense. 

This!!  And because he's in a new offensive system, I think he is not familiar with where the defenders will be.  So often times he goes up for a shot and it looks like he's deciding if he wants to shoot or pass because he don't know if the defender is behind him about to swat his shot.   When he was able to run his own plays, he knew where people would be so there was no hesitation.   I figure time will heal him. 

 

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

I know your answer but I will ask anyway...

Would you trade Trae for Dearron Fox?

How about Haliburton?

 

Fox, hell no

 

Haliburton, hell yeah. I question the fit with Murray but I'll rather have Haliburton over Trae. 

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, Atlantaholic said:

It wouldn't matter if I were willing to trade him for those two players because there is a 0% chance Indy and Sacramento would take that trade unless we attach several picks or Jalen Johnson to the trade request. 

 

 

Well, there's your problem.   Neither of those players see double teams.   In fact, there are only a handful of players that see as much doubling as Tre.    It's from the start of the game with a lot of teams.   Fox don't get doubled... unless it's late and close.  Nobody respects Haliburton enough to double him.   BUT... teams know if they don't double Trae, he may hang 40 on them. 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

6 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Clint last October

 

Clint last November

 

So in 18 games last year in Oct and Nov, CC got 37 lob attempts.

We have 6 games left in November and CC currently has 9 lob attempts. 

That makes a difference when he can't disguise the lob pass vs the floater - leads to indecision.

[bleachkit]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

I know your answer but I will ask anyway...

Would you trade Trae for Dearron Fox?

How about Haliburton?

 

I would trade for Halliburton in a second. Take a look at his recent numbers, they are very impressive. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

8 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

So in 18 games last year in Oct and Nov, CC got 37 lob attempts.

We have 6 games left in November and CC currently has 9 lob attempts. 

That makes a difference when he can't disguise the lob pass vs the floater - leads to indecision.

Great deduction!

So as you said, he simply needs to be decisive when going to the basket.  And the decision he needs to make is to shoot the ball.

Once it becomes obvious that they're playing him to shoot, then toss up the lobs.

Or run more lob plays for JJ.

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, bleachkit said:

Halliburton

One L there playa ..

[Diesel]

So yall can see.  Side by side..  Trae vs. Tyrese.  I want you to notice how many double teams Trae picks up... vs How many Tyrese picks up.

Haliburton is out there taking wide open shots.

He's talented.  His shot is funny but it is his.  However, he doesn't see doubles.  I would like to see what he does with the pressure that Trae faces. 

 

 

 

[Spud2nique]

28 minutes ago, Diesel said:

So yall can see.  Side by side..  Trae vs. Tyrese.  I want you to notice how many double teams Trae picks up... vs How many Tyrese picks up.

Haliburton is out there taking wide open shots.

He's talented.  His shot is funny but it is his.  However, he doesn't see doubles.  I would like to see what he does with the pressure that Trae faces. 

 

 

 

But why is he getting wide open shots? We have DJ whose better than any secondary player they have.