Hawks looking to trade

[gurpilo]

hace 3 minutos, AHF dijo:

I think hoping for a star SG and star C is too much to ask for.  I am hoping for one foundational piece to add to JJ and Trae out of the trades we make.  So we have three stars after the dust settles:  Trae, JJ, and Player X.  The rest of the team gets filled in around them and maybe trading someone lower on the totem pole than DM gets you a role player who fits neatly ala Kyle, Thabo, DMC, etc. 

The best role players I see on the market are Melton and Lugen Dortz, I think they would be good fits with Trae

Edited January 18 by gurpilo

[NBASupes]

I know some people are dying for a trade but if the price of Delon is the same price for Capela. What the hell kinda trade we can make? 

Washington wants a late 1st for an expiring Delon. Come on man. Be serious. 

That's why it's hard to see changes. Teams want a lot of productive role players. But when you really want to move them, they want to give you garbage ass offers that aren't serious. 

2 minutes ago, gurpilo said:

The best role players I see on the market are Melton and Lugen Dortz, I think they would be good fits with Trae

The cost of those guys is outrageous. The trade market is a seller market unless you are the Hawks, in that case, they are low balling the f*** out of you. A big part of this is the Kevin and JC trades were seen as cost cutting so teams see Atlanta as cost cutting. This is on Tony. He f***ed up his team with always trying to avoid the LT. 

Edited January 18 by NBASupes

[Sothron]

These leaks are not coming from the Hawks FO. Even on here you notice that the "insiders" are careful in what we say because we've been told, at least I have, to be very cautious in what we say.

These leaks are from other teams and agencies. The Hawks are not handing players away. The team has absolutely zero reason to be forced to trade anyone on this roster. 

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

The cost of those guys is outrageous. The trade market is a seller market unless you are the Hawks, in that case, they are low balling the f*** out of you. 

There is gamesmanship on both sides right now.  This is why deals usually happen at the deadline when people are in a "take it or leave it" scenario.  Right now, nobody wants to bend very far because they have weeks to work their way into a better situation.  The Hawks need to have patience and need to be prepared to walk away from the table if the value isn't there.  That is the only way to negotiate with strength.  For as annoying as Toronto's Masai can be, he is actually a good role model for us right now.

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, Sothron said:

These leaks are not coming from the Hawks FO. Even on here you notice that the "insiders" are careful in what we say because we've been told, at least I have, to be very cautious in what we say.

These leaks are from other teams and agencies. The Hawks are not handing players away. The team has absolutely zero reason to be forced to trade anyone on this roster. 

Even the leaks from within have been low ball offers. Teams aren't offering shit and that's the real. That said, the draft is probably when you will see some deals as more players will be available that fit Atlanta. 

I honestly think Bey maybe the only one traded if a team offers a 1st. He's still coveted but Atlanta needs him right now till Dre is back. 

[NBASupes]

Capela is definitely a draft time trade option. Considering the depth issues In this class, I can see teams being interested. 

[Jody23]

7 minutes ago, Sothron said:

These leaks are not coming from the Hawks FO. Even on here you notice that the "insiders" are careful in what we say because we've been told, at least I have, to be very cautious in what we say.

These leaks are from other teams and agencies. The Hawks are not handing players away. The team has absolutely zero reason to be forced to trade anyone on this roster. 

Does Klutch represent Trae?  Do they want him forced out of Atlanta?

[JeffS17]

Alright, I spent a little time with the Minny cap situation, because I think I'm starting to form a view on our path forward.  We need to stand pat on DJ.  We need to hold him until the offseason and go absolutely all-in on KAT.  I don't see another path for us that's anything better than just good.  

Here's the situation Minny faces next season, as I'm sure our FO is keenly aware.  They have three massive extensions kicking in: Ant, KAT, and McDaniels.  They have 8 dudes locked in next year and are already sitting at $172M in salary.  That's the luxury floor.  The second apron is at $180M -- I cannot imagine it's tenable for this franchise to go into the second apron, and even if they wanted to pay it, they're not going to be able to tool the roster to be competitive because of the significant restrictions of going above the second apron.  This isn't a well-rounded 3-headed hydra like we've seen some rosters manage.  This is two centers eating up $90M+ of cap space.  So with 5 roster slots to fill in, it's untenable for Minny to stand pat under any circumstance.  They're keeping Edwards, and I'd be shocked if they were to move McDaniels.  And I doubt they'll move Gobert because of the trade optics, so it has to be KAT.

We need to hold on until the offseason and go all-in on KAT.  Murray would fit that squad well and excel as a roaming free safety type of PG defender with Gobert anchoring.  He'd be good offensively with Ant and because he lives in the midrange, Gobert clogging the paint isn't an issue for him.  It's a perfect fit and we get KAT to pair with Trae.  I see this as the clear and best direction to try to move towards.  I don't see any other realistic scenarios to get us out of the massive predicament we've landed ourselves in.  @Sothron, you're the Minny guy, let me know if I've missed anything.  Below is their cap situation going into next year:

 

[Vol4ever]

10 minutes ago, Sothron said:

These leaks are not coming from the Hawks FO. Even on here you notice that the "insiders" are careful in what we say because we've been told, at least I have, to be very cautious in what we say.

These leaks are from other teams and agencies. The Hawks are not handing players away. The team has absolutely zero reason to be forced to trade anyone on this roster. 

This ^^^

[warcore]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

You’d have to show me the data to show this before I’d buy into it.  These guys are professionals who advance their careers by unearthing gems that others missed.  I don’t see why they would take a year off from that just because there is no LeBron or Shaq.  We know the draft is a bit of a crap shoot so I get there will be people missed and variability and all that.  I’m just super skeptical that you are more likely to find a Giannis or Nash or Jimmy, etc. if there isn’t a consensus pick at the top.  (As an aside, you can have super strong drafts without a consensus #1 like the Kandi man draft.)

no data.... this is similar to the idea of "playing down to your competition"...

As a Hawks fan, I know damn well you're familiar with that. 

or deciding not to study for an exam because you know it's not worth much of your final grade. Just human behaviors...

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, Jody23 said:

Does Klutch represent Trae?  Do they want him forced out of Atlanta?

From what I last gathered, he would rather go to a team where he has another star but is still the star than go as extra piece and get low balled financially. Trae wants to be the star but he wants to be a Max player. So it's a mix bag for him. A lot of teams don't think he's a max player. He's interested in SA because he would be a max player and play next to Wemby. But he's not too interested in requesting a trade to most teams is what I've recently heard which is kinda good for Hawks fans. 

[warcore]

1 hour ago, shakes said:

You must be old cause I'm pretty old myself.

Here's a recent short of @Hawkmoor

 

[Vol4ever]

If they take Russell back from LA in a DJ trade, you can bet the wild shots will be nothing like you've ever seen in Atlanta, he shoots more than Freeman Williams or World B Free did.  

[NBASupes]

6 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Alright, I spent a little time with the Minny cap situation, because I think I'm starting to form a view on our path forward.  We need to stand pat on DJ.  We need to hold him until the offseason and go absolutely all-in on KAT.  I don't see another path for us that's anything better than just good.  

Here's the situation Minny faces next season, as I'm sure our FO is keenly aware.  They have three massive extensions kicking in: Ant, KAT, and McDaniels.  They have 8 dudes locked in next year and are already sitting at $172M in salary.  That's the luxury floor.  The second apron is at $180M -- I cannot imagine it's tenable for this franchise to go into the second apron, and even if they wanted to pay it, they're not going to be able to tool the roster to be competitive because of the significant restrictions of going above the second apron.  This isn't a well-rounded 3-headed hydra like we've seen some rosters manage.  This is two centers eating up $90M+ of cap space.  So with 5 roster slots to fill in, it's untenable for Minny to stand pat under any circumstance.  They're keeping Edwards, and I'd be shocked if they were to move McDaniels.  And I doubt they'll move Gobert because of the trade optics, so it has to be KAT.

We need to hold on until the offseason and go all-in on KAT.  Murray would fit that squad well and excel as a roaming free safety type of PG defender with Gobert anchoring.  He'd be good offensively with Ant and because he lives in the midrange, Gobert clogging the paint isn't an issue for him.  It's a perfect fit and we get KAT to pair with Trae.  I see this as the clear and best direction to try to move towards.  I don't see any other realistic scenarios to get us out of the massive predicament we've landed ourselves in.  @Sothron, you're the Minny guy, let me know if I've missed anything.  Below is their cap situation going into next year:

 

You forgot the min contracts which is 5 players at 1.2 million which means Minny is already at the 2nd apron and because KAT and Ant contract adjust with the cap, they are at the 2nd apron no matter what

[Hawkmoor]

@warcore  nah, here is a recent short of the kid...

1 hour ago, shakes said:

lol fair enough.

 

You must be old cause I'm pretty old myself.

I'm not THAT old, lmao

[JeffS17]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

You forgot the min contracts which is 5 players at 1.2 million which means Minny is already at the 2nd apron and because KAT and Ant contract adjust with the cap, they are at the 2nd apron no matter what

Yes I know, I acknowledged that below.  They will be in the 2nd apron without salary dumping/trading.

11 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

So with 5 roster slots to fill in, it's untenable for Minny to stand pat under any circumstance. 

 

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, JeffS17 said:

Yes I know, I acknowledged that below.  They will be in the 2nd apron without salary dumping/trading.

 

Yep. 

For Minny and Atlanta, the best time to trade for KAT is during the draft. It's bad to break up the team now for Minny and it will still count under 2024. 

While this trade kinda sucks for us as we want to keep OO no matter what. This is The most ideal for Minnesota. Atlanta would rather move Dre or Capela instead by a mile. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

24 minutes ago, gurpilo said:

The best option we have to build a contender is to trade Bey, Hunter, Bogi, Capela, Murray for a star SG and a star C that can shot the 3. Slide JJ to SF and OO to PF.

Possible SG targets:  I don’t like any, just Desmond Bane but I doubt Memphis trade him.

Possible C targets: KAT, Vucevic, Turner, JJJ, Porzingis

JJ has skills that a lot of 3s possess.  He can pass.  He's shooting 40% from 3.  He obviously can rebound.  He should be playing a 3/4 combo forward spot, in which the Hawks can go big at any time, and still not see things suffer with JJ at the 3.

Can't even knock him for his 3 point shooting any more, seeing that he's making them right now at a 40% clip.  If anything, his defense might get better at the 3, because of his length. 

At the 4, he still struggles at times vs bigger guys.  And because the Hawks poorly rebound the basketball, his DFG% takes a hit at the 4 because he's one of the only guys trying to challenge shots after offensive rebounds.

 

[JeffS17]

12 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Yep. 

For Minny and Atlanta, the best time to trade for KAT is during the draft. It's bad to break up the team now for Minny and it will still count under 2024. 

While this trade kinda sucks for us as we want to keep OO no matter what. This is The most ideal for Minnesota. Atlanta would rather move Dre or Capela instead by a mile. 

Yeah, exactly.  They get back quality players and avoid the $13M increase in KAT's salary.  They could then fill out the rest of the roster with minimum guys and avoid the second apron.  Other option is for us to include Patty who is expiring if they're trying to shave even more salary.

[NBASupes]

Just now, TheNorthCydeRises said:

JJ has skills that a lot of 3s possess.  He can pass.  He's shooting 40% from 3.  He obviously can rebound.  He should be playing a 3/4 combo forward spot, in which the Hawks can go big at any time, and still not see things suffer with JJ at the 3.

Can't even knock him for his 3 point shooting any more, seeing that he's making them right now at a 40% clip.  If anything, his defense might get better at the 3, because of his length. 

At the 4, he still struggles at times vs bigger guys.  And because the Hawks poorly rebound the basketball, his DFG% takes a hit at the 4 because he's one of the only guys trying to challenge shots after offensive rebounds.

 

Offensively, sure. Defensively,  it's a mess. He plays the 3 like Smoove did, hit or miss and consistently too. He's not a 3. He's a tweener 4. He's more of a 3 on offense than Smoove but Smoove was more of a 3 on defense and he wasn't a 3 either.