Tonight I watched....

[Gray Mule]

All players eligible for the draft who play in any bowl game should be fully insured.  Then, if they are not drafted because of injury, they get paid.  To stop players from opting out of a bowl game, the answer is simple.  The NFL makes it illegal for any NFL team to draft any player that does this in the first two rounds of the draft...

Edited January 1 by Gray Mule

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 minute ago, Gray Mule said:

All players eligible for the draft who play in any bowl game should be fully insured.  Then, if they are not drafted because of injury, they get paid.  To stop players from opting out of a bowl game, the answer is simple.  The NFL makes it illegal for any NFL team to draft any player that does this in the first two rounds of the draft...

 

Your first 2 sentences are on point.  Your last 2, once again, punishes the kids for making a life changing decision for playing in a bowl game that doesn't even count.

As much as Georgia fans relished beating the hell out of FSU, they're not celebrating that Orange Bowl win like it was a major achievement.  Even if FSU was at full strength, they wouldn't do it.

To me, it's crazy to try to keep punishing kids and keep them from making decision based on money . . . when everyone around them makes decisions based off of money.

You have entire programs jumping conferences, because the money is more lucrative in the other conference that wants them.  The Pac-12, which arguably had 4 of the top 12 teams in football all year, gets nuked because their most notable programs jump to the Big 10 . . who can offer them much more money.

But when the kids look out for their best interest, it's a problem?

Why should Drake Maye, who broke all kinds of records as the North Carolina QB, be punished for not playing in his last college game, in a meaningless bowl game vs West Virginia? 

That dude threw for almost 8,000 yds and had 72 TDs in his last 2 seasons.  He won 17 football games during that span.  But he should get punished for opting out of his last college game vs West freakin Virginia in the Duke's Mayo Bowl?

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

I take no exception with these kids doing what's best for their future. These are life changing decisions.

[Gray Mule]

Bowl games are meaningless.  Just as every college game that they play is meaningless.  Only NFL mean anything because they pay money to their players, and this is all that matters.  I get the message.  I really do.

This is why I say, they should be insured so that, if they are injured, they lose no money.

Edited January 1 by Gray Mule

[sturt]

The romance of college football played by players who play for the pride of their alma mater has been a constant for 100+ years. The game's economic well-being grew and thrived.

This new age of mercenary, loyalty-less college football represents a crack in the economic well-being of that consumer entertainment option that, over time, could do severe damage. And if we see the NFL make a G-League-like move, perceiving economic opportunity there, don't be surprised if the "over time" part of the previous sentence to be significantly compacted.

Only thing holding NFL back even now is the tradition and romance that top tier college football has enjoyed. If college football doesn't come up with some solution, they give NFL every reason to launch their own new... lucrative... business opportunity.

[JeffS17]

1 hour ago, sturt said:

The romance of college football played by players who play for the pride of their alma mater has been a constant for 100+ years. The game's economic well-being grew and thrived.

This new age of mercenary, loyalty-less college football represents a crack in the economic well-being of that consumer entertainment option that, over time, could do severe damage. And if we see the NFL make a G-League-like move, perceiving economic opportunity there, don't be surprised if the "over time" part of the previous sentence to be significantly compacted.

Only thing holding NFL back even now is the tradition and romance that top tier college football has enjoyed. If college football doesn't come up with some solution, they give NFL every reason to launch their own new... lucrative... business opportunity.

Agree with your assessment overall, but unfortunately, I don't see any solution here.  There are certainly brighter minds than mine, that maybe can craft a creative solution, but everywhere you look (healthcare, higher education, housing, to name a few), we're entering late stage capitalism and culture/value degradation as a result.  I see no fault in students doing what's best to secure economic opportunity where the certainties of financial security have all but evaporated in the past few decades.  Students are following the money in a system that has done nothing but ...follow the money.  CFB as we used to know it is dying and I don't have much sympathy for college football or the institutions around it as a whole... c'est la vie.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

2 hours ago, Gray Mule said:

Bowl games are meaningless.  Just as every college game that they play is meaningless.  Only NFL mean anything because they pay money to their players, and this is all that matters.  I get the message.  I really do.

This is why I say, they should be insured so that, if they are injured, they lose no money.

 

Not True GM.

At least the regular season games can put you in position to win a conference championship.  That has lasting meaning to a program.  Regular season games also pits you against your historic conference rivals.  College guys can become legends by performing well or making a big play in a big rivalry game.

This guy played about 2 years in the NFL as a part time kick returner.

But he's forever a legend for what he did here.

 

 

That play kept Auburn's undefeated season alive, knocked their arch rival out of the title picture, and sent them to the SEC Championship game.

They win the SEC Championship but lose to . . . ironically . . . Florida State.

Edited January 1 by TheNorthCydeRises

[sturt]

1 hour ago, JeffS17 said:

I don't see any solution here.  There are certainly brighter minds than mine, that maybe can craft a creative solution, but everywhere you look (healthcare, higher education, housing, to name a few), we're entering late stage capitalism

Agreed on all that (though I choke on the implicit omniscience of calling it "late stage").

1 hour ago, JeffS17 said:

culture/value degradation as a result

Not sure how this reconciles with the very next thing you said...

1 hour ago, JeffS17 said:

I see no fault in students doing what's best to secure economic opportunity

Neither do I.

It's not necessarily a degradation of culture/value. Indeed, we don't chide young people who find their way into music or acting or other entertainment careers, and who don't find it important to attend college at the typical college age... for good reason.

 

2 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

CFB as we used to know it is dying and I don't have much sympathy for college football or the institutions around it as a whole... c'est la vie.

Again, I'm with you, but I don't think it's going away that easily. There's too much money at stake.

If I had to take a stab at how they may eventually decide to address it, we may see the legal separation of top tier college football programs from the public or private universities, so that there is essentially an x-number for-profit minor league begun with each of the teams in the league explicitly affiliated with, making significant scholarship contributions, and paying licensing fees to, say, the University of Alabama for the right to use all of the wordmarks, trademarks, and copyrights owned by the Crimson Tide.

So, what you'll have is kids getting contracts of specific length and at salaries appropriate to the business plan to play in that minor league.

What we know as "college football" then ends up being the minor league that gets virtually all of the TV revenue at that point, and the rest of the landscape, non-scholarship programs, with those non-scholarship programs occasionally losing a junior or senior star player to the minor league, or gaining someone who got let go by a minor league team with no interest from any of the others. But because non-scholarship players are making their decisions out of high school primarily based on where they genuinely want to attend school to get a degree in the first place, it makes some sense to think you wouldn't see a whole lot of movement horizontally between non-scholarship programs.

How does that change anything?

It allows the minor league teams to actually enter into contractual relationships that obligate players to play for them for a certain period of time at a certain rate of pay, and yet, just like any employer, would have the freedom to let employees go as deemed necessary.

It also better funnels those players with the top talent and whose primary interest is having a career in the NFL (vis-a-vis, less interested in going to classes and performing well academically) into full-time employment.

And, mind you, there's still nothing that would keep the top-tier schools from fielding their own non-scholarship teams anyhow, and quite plausibly, players who tend to end up at lower-tier scholarship programs today could be attracted to those programs with regularity, since they would gain the potential benefit of being more visible to the for-pay team that wears the same name.

How many minor league teams would make up such a league?

Hard to say with certainty. It would be how ever many the business model would project as making the league optimally profitable... and connected to that local market size (implications to ticket sales) and historical TV audience numbers... are going to figure prominently in that. Quite possibly, you'd have a situation where some number of teams have no specific university affiliation but that would wear the name of a city where it is based... taking the spot on the national stage, then, that otherwise might be currently occupied by a school that has a less lucrative following. Boise State, for instance, may be on the losing end, and instead, the league would have one more team in, say, Denver, out of an expectation that a Denver-based team would easily outperform a Boise-based one.

 

[AHF]

All these words and yet the UGA players who are NFL bound generally played because they cared and the FSU players didn’t play because they didn’t care.  No bigger risk in playing in the bowl game than in the 7th game of the season.  If you don’t care about bowl games then why not just quit halfway through the season to prepare for the draft?  We’ve seen a few people do that.  
 

Now this doesn’t leave the NCAA in the high horse position.  They’ve been all about the money for many years so for them to act like it is about honor and pride when it has been about cash first and foremost for the coaches, admins, and schools would be a continuation of the pretense of “amateur” ball they’ve made for years.

The people who have the real gripe are the fans who do care and almost always care about the game over the money.  People all have to make their own decisions for what is right for them and if someone doesn’t think playing in the 4th biggest game of the bowl season is meaningful then do you.  But if you don’t give a ****, don’t expect any respect from a large % of the fanbase.  FSU = quitters this year for me and for many people.  As I said, hopefully it will drive institutional change to incentivize people to finish their seasons in the future (insurance would be at the top of my list to take away the downside risk for the players).  But college football is already hurting itself badly with the conference consolidation crap and if the only meaningful bowl games going forward are the playoffs then the sport is going to be walking itself toward a duller future.  No one likes the Pro Bowl because it is a garbage exhibition and that is the very real risk for the sport.

[AHF]

Addition:

If the bowl games cease to matter so do regular seasons for non-playoff teams which will be 99% of schools.  Historically the whole incentive to keep fighting is to get in the most prestigious bowl game possible and win it.  If players stop caring about the bowl games, fans will stop caring once their teams are out of the playoff picture.  It is an ugly future for the game.

[Diesel]

5 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I take no exception with these kids doing what's best for their future. These are life changing decisions.

To what end though?

Top prospect...  gets to his 5th game of the season and tells the coach, "I'm shutting it down.  I have a guaranteed spot in the first two rounds in the draft and I don't want to jeopardize that with injury."   By your statement, he's justified because it's his future.  However,  that coach spent a scholarship on said player.   He could have used that scholarship on somebody that would have helped his team.  In a little while, the question will be do they need to play in college at all.  If they can just have a good HS career and then show up for the combine or even a personal workout and do well... that's enough. 

Don't get me wrong, I have always felt that the mandate of playing College sports was slavery.  However, I have also been on the other side of that coin and now with NIL deals, I see it being more equitable.   But if this trend continues, there will be no more college sports for top prospects. 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, Diesel said:

To what end though?

Top prospect...  gets to his 5th game of the season and tells the coach, "I'm shutting it down.

 Don't create unreal hypotheticals.

[Diesel]

25 minutes ago, AHF said:

All these words and yet the UGA players who are NFL bound generally played because they cared and the FSU players didn’t play because they didn’t care.  No bigger risk in playing in the bowl game than in the 7th game of the season.  If you don’t care about bowl games then why not just quit halfway through the season to prepare for the draft?  We’ve seen a few people do that.  

Yes.... CULTURE.

[Diesel]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 Don't create unreal hypotheticals.

Haha...

Do you really want to go here??

Spoiler

“I honestly think I wouldn’t be in the position I am in today if I hadn’t left early,” he said. “I’ve prepared myself. I’m in the best position and grateful for this next step. I think I’m more prepared than I’ve ever been.”

When asked why he left, Johnson said “it was really the best decision for my family and I. That’s the best way to put it. I just had to make sure I was ready for the next step, and be as prepared as possible.”

 

[JayBirdHawk]

49 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Haha...

Do you really want to go here??

  Hide contents

“I honestly think I wouldn’t be in the position I am in today if I hadn’t left early,” he said. “I’ve prepared myself. I’m in the best position and grateful for this next step. I think I’m more prepared than I’ve ever been.”

When asked why he left, Johnson said “it was really the best decision for my family and I. That’s the best way to put it. I just had to make sure I was ready for the next step, and be as prepared as possible.”

 

Did he play 5 games???? I missed that. Plus he had an injury.

The initial discussion was healthy players opting out.

[Diesel]

3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Did he play 5 games???? I missed that. Plus he had an injury.

The initial discussion was healthy players opting out.

Quote

Jalen Johnson, a former five-star recruit who left the 2020-21 Duke basketball team midseason to work on his game back home in Wisconsin, has looked like a top NBA Most Improved Player candidate this year for the Atlanta Hawks.

Quote

Johnson, a 6-foot-8, 215-pound small forward, was criticized for leaving Duke early amid a 13-11 season and the Blue Devils' first missed NCAA tournament since 1995. Johnson played in 13 games and missed three due to a foot injury.  

His 19-point, 19-rebound performance against Coppin State in the season-opener — one of the best debuts ever for a Duke freshman — vaulted him into national prominence and made him the marquee name on the country's most high profile team. 

But as the Blue Devils faltered, dropping below .500 for the first time since 1999, out of the AP Poll and at serious risk of missing the NCAA tournament, the focus shifted to developing the young talent that will be returning next year and joined by a recruiting class with at least two top-10 prospects. 

That plan did not seem to include Johnson, who was absent from the starting lineup the last three games and played only eight minutes while scoring three points in his final game against N.C. State.

Quote

He withdrew from Duke in February and declared for the NBA draft, saying he needed to get healthy before he made the jump to professional basketball. "I heard all the things people were saying, but it just made me work harder," Johnson said. "I tapped into a whole different level in the gym, constantly pushing through fatigue. I know people want to see me fail, so that's why I'm doing it."

He added that leaving Duke "was really the best decision for my family and I.”

Football and basketball are different.   5 games in football is not the same as 5 games in basketball... but you know this.   About Johnson.  He injured his foot and was back a few games later... and they were not playing him like before... so he left.  He left to get ready for the draft.  Not because he was injured.  He made a decision that was best for him.  Back to my original point ... now that it's not a hypothetical...  TO WHAT END?  Just like Johnson, a player can leave anytime he wants... That's at the bowl game or game 5 in the season.   If all that really matters is how they look against competition and how well their personal workout goes or their combine goes, how do you stop the flood of players who don't want to jeopardize their draft position?

 

[JayBirdHawk]

2 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Football and basketball are different.   5 games in football is not the same as 5 games in basketball... but you know this.   About Johnson.  He injured his foot and was back a few games later... and they were not playing him like before... so he left.  He left to get ready for the draft.  Not because he was injured.  He made a decision that was best for him.  Back to my original point ... now that it's not a hypothetical...  TO WHAT END?  Just like Johnson, a player can leave anytime he wants... That's at the bowl game or game 5 in the season.   If all that really matters is how they look against competition and how well their personal workout goes or their combine goes, how do you stop the flood of players who don't want to jeopardize their draft position?

 

I'll repeat what I said to start....I don't begrudge any of these players doing what's financially best for themselves and their families. You won't change my mind on that, so I'll bow out of this discussion.

[Watchman]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

Haha...

Do you really want to go here??

  Reveal hidden contents

“I honestly think I wouldn’t be in the position I am in today if I hadn’t left early,” he said. “I’ve prepared myself. I’m in the best position and grateful for this next step. I think I’m more prepared than I’ve ever been.”

When asked why he left, Johnson said “it was really the best decision for my family and I. That’s the best way to put it. I just had to make sure I was ready for the next step, and be as prepared as possible.”

 

I  would suggest that any healthy student who opts out of playing in a bowl game for his college should be made financially responsible for all  costs related to tuition, housing, meals, conditioning and healthcare,  and travel costs for his entire time at the college.  They were provided with these benefits at the expense of the college, and they chose to renege on their end of the agreement.  However, since they are to receive all this money from the NFL these costs should only be a drop in the bucket to these students who chose their wellbeing over the college that provided all these costs and services for them, right?

[Diesel]

13 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I'll repeat what I said to start....I don't begrudge any of these players doing what's financially best for themselves and their families. You won't change my mind on that, so I'll bow out of this discussion.

There it is.  Not every opposite take is an attempt to change a mind.  I agree with what you say; you missed me calling the college system slavery.... However, I wanted to expand the conversation because right now, there are no safeguards to when a player can pull out.  It will kill collegiate sports.   That's not a hypothetical, that's a likelihood.   It's the reason why the NBA required 1 year of college ball before joining.   There was nothing wrong with those players who skipped college.   Kobe, KG, Lebron, TMac, all did very well.  However, when it started to kill the financials of March Madness and of Collegiate basketball, the NCAA and the NBA came up with some measures.   Collegiate Football will eventually have to do the same.  Maybe it's the fine that the Watchman and Mule advocate for.  Or maybe there's something else.   However, whatever the answer, you can't miss the fact that the system will have to change... soon... because there's nothing stopping players from just leaving.   

[TheNorthCydeRises]

7 hours ago, sturt said:

The romance of college football played by players who play for the pride of their alma mater has been a constant for 100+ years. The game's economic well-being grew and thrived.

This new age of mercenary, loyalty-less college football represents a crack in the economic well-being of that consumer entertainment option that, over time, could do severe damage. And if we see the NFL make a G-League-like move, perceiving economic opportunity there, don't be surprised if the "over time" part of the previous sentence to be significantly compacted.

Only thing holding NFL back even now is the tradition and romance that top tier college football has enjoyed. If college football doesn't come up with some solution, they give NFL every reason to launch their own new... lucrative... business opportunity.

So what's the solution?