AJC: " Hawks need to trade Trae Young"

[JeffS17]

4 hours ago, AHF said:

What I want is for Fields to publicly push back on this unless Trae is demanding a trade.  Even if the Hawks are interested in a trade, the offers will be better (or at least no worse) if Landry says he is our star and we have no intent to deal him.  If the Hawks believe they will likely keep him, it is insane not to embrace your guy and to let the media speculate on it with no pushback.

Fields is likely the one that planted or green lit this story, so I doubt you're going to hear him publicly push back here, just as he hasn't to the many other reports.  Seems like to me that ownership/front office has been considering putting Trae on the block since the team they hired Quin.  The messaging changed around then from "build around Trae at all costs" to "Quin and the new front office have the green light to make any moves necessary".  It's so painfully clear to me that we are heavily considering a path forward without Trae.  I understand most here are in denial and hand wave away all of the smoke, but these reports are often intentionally preparing the fan base, particularly when it starts coming from local news.

[Final_quest]

4 hours ago, Afro said:

Media relations/other teams aside... 

We can all feel that our current roster feels VERY timid and anxious. It comes through when they talk. 

None of them really know what's happening and our organizations sowing doubt rather than confidence. 

I hate to just keep crapping on Landry, but IMO, he fails so hard at cultivating the morale/vibes around this team. Which is a big f***ing deal to me. 

Hoping this #1 pick and some moves this offseason can ease the player's confidence in what we are doing.  I am nervous about where Trae is at, or where the FO is with Trae.  Hoping everything calms down and we commit to at least Trae, Sarr, and JJ.  

[macdaddy]

33 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Fields is likely the one that planted or green lit this story, so I doubt you're going to hear him publicly push back here, just as he hasn't to the many other reports.  Seems like to me that ownership/front office has been considering putting Trae on the block since the team they hired Quin.  The messaging changed around then from "build around Trae at all costs" to "Quin and the new front office have the green light to make any moves necessary".  It's so painfully clear to me that we are heavily considering a path forward without Trae.  I understand most here are in denial and hand wave away all of the smoke, but these reports are often intentionally preparing the fan base, particularly when it starts coming from local news.

I'm not in denial.  I just think it's a monumental mistake that will take years for this franchise to recover from.  From both a basketball and fan interest perspective.   You can't keep sending out talent and expect fans to be interested.  

Lots of folks spout the line 'this ain't 2k' well my fear is that Landry thinks it is.   That he wants to build what he thinks is the right way which basically means take it down to the studs and start over.  I'm tired of that crap.  If Trae goes then we're basically back to being a typical middle of the road team with no stars, no all stars, that might 'play the right way' as we're bounced by the first round every year until we ultimately just get rid of everyone good and collect draft picks again.  

[Wretch]

Just now, macdaddy said:

I'm not in denial.  I just think it's a monumental mistake that will take years for this franchise to recover from.  From both a basketball and fan interest perspective.   You can't keep sending out talent and expect fans to be interested.  

Lots of folks spout the line 'this ain't 2k' well my fear is that Landry thinks it is.   That he wants to build what he thinks is the right way which basically means take it down to the studs and start over.  I'm tired of that crap.  If Trae goes then we're basically back to being a typical middle of the road team with no stars, no all stars, that might 'play the right way' as we're bounced by the first round every year until we ultimately just get rid of everyone good and collect draft picks again.  

My worst fear.  I wouldn't sit through that process again and it would be DISASTEROUS for a franchise that has been an afterthought for decades for this very reason.  I can't do it again.  I need relevancy and I would rather endure total failure than be a perennial punching bag for contenders.

[swanlee]

Draft Sarr and add him to our exisiting roster. Done

 

Hope all these stupid rumors stop soon

[JeffS17]

8 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I'm not in denial.  I just think it's a monumental mistake that will take years for this franchise to recover from.  From both a basketball and fan interest perspective.   You can't keep sending out talent and expect fans to be interested.  

Lots of folks spout the line 'this ain't 2k' well my fear is that Landry thinks it is.   That he wants to build what he thinks is the right way which basically means take it down to the studs and start over.  I'm tired of that crap.  If Trae goes then we're basically back to being a typical middle of the road team with no stars, no all stars, that might 'play the right way' as we're bounced by the first round every year until we ultimately just get rid of everyone good and collect draft picks again.  

For what it's worth, I will be wholly disappointed if we trade Trae to the Spurs for picks back.  That signals we don't intend to win, and might even tactically tank next season.  I would be less disappointed, depending on the haul, if we trade him elsewhere for talent+picks.  I don't want our picks back, because I want us to be trying our hardest to win the next 3 seasons, which drives positive development.  So the only scenario I'll be content with trading Trae, would be to a team like New Orleans (Herb/Murphy) or somewhere like Brooklyn (Bridges/Claxton), where we get back a lot of player talent instead of a picks focused trade.  The idea wouldn't be for DJ to be better than Trae, just that the sum of the parts is better than today's sum of the parts, with more upside in the future.

[macdaddy]

5 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

For what it's worth, I will be wholly disappointed if we trade Trae to the Spurs for picks back.  That signals we don't intend to win, and might even tactically tank next season.  I would be less disappointed, depending on the haul, if we trade him elsewhere for talent+picks.  I don't want our picks back, because I want us to be trying our hardest to win the next 3 seasons, which drives positive development.  So the only scenario I'll be content with trading Trae, would be to a team like New Orleans (Herb/Murphy) or somewhere like Brooklyn (Bridges/Claxton), where we get back a lot of player talent instead of a picks focused trade.  The idea wouldn't be for DJ to be better than Trae, just that the sum of the parts is better than today's sum of the parts, with more upside in the future.

I understand this sentiment but i'm just surprised.  Look at the playoffs (every year) there's not a single team in the playoffs that doesn't have at least one elite scorer.  Whether folks like Trae or not the numbers don't lie.  He is an elite offensive force.   Where are we going to get that?  

Luka, SGA, Jokic, Ant, Tatum (plus a bunch of other all star level players), Mitchell, Paolo, 

We won't have a player on our roster left anywhere near the level of any of these guys.   We'd just be hoping that JJ or Sarr gets there one day which likely they won't.  

And outside of Mitchell, all these guys were drafted by the team they play for.  Because you don't give up those guys.   So again we'd be forced to tank to try to find one again.  

[JeffS17]

2 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I understand this sentiment but i'm just surprised.  Look at the playoffs (every year) there's not a single team in the playoffs that doesn't have at least one elite scorer.  Whether folks like Trae or not the numbers don't lie.  He is an elite offensive force.   Where are we going to get that?  

Luka, SGA, Jokic, Ant, Tatum (plus a bunch of other all star level players), Mitchell, Paolo, 

We won't have a player on our roster left anywhere near the level of any of these guys.   We'd just be hoping that JJ or Sarr gets there one day which likely they won't.  

And outside of Mitchell, all these guys were drafted by the team they play for.  Because you don't give up those guys.   So again we'd be forced to tank to try to find one again.  

Murray had virtually the same offensive rating as Trae this past season (Murray's was marginally higher).  If the front office moves forward with a plan like this, they would be banking on another player to rise up as that star, likely JJ, or Sarr, or someone we get back in the package, or even Murray getting better.  I can guarantee you the burning question the front office is raising is "Can we win a chip with Trae taking up 35% of the cap, or $60M+/year, starting in 2026.  It's a ton of money for a one way player in a very different NBA landscape, with a renewed focus on defense and physicality.  Look at these years playoffs-- teams are getting to play defense how Miami played us 2 years ago and Trae did not look good in that series.

[Bonzaii58]

46 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

For what it's worth, I will be wholly disappointed if we trade Trae to the Spurs for picks back.  That signals we don't intend to win, and might even tactically tank next season.  I would be less disappointed, depending on the haul, if we trade him elsewhere for talent+picks.  I don't want our picks back, because I want us to be trying our hardest to win the next 3 seasons, which drives positive development.  So the only scenario I'll be content with trading Trae, would be to a team like New Orleans (Herb/Murphy) or somewhere like Brooklyn (Bridges/Claxton), where we get back a lot of player talent instead of a picks focused trade.  The idea wouldn't be for DJ to be better than Trae, just that the sum of the parts is better than today's sum of the parts, with more upside in the future.

Yeah. Trading Trae is one thing.. but trading him to the spurs would be a monumental failure. They have no one I’d want.. We should only trade Trae if he asks out. And if that happens, the spurs would be the team Landry should talk to. We have to do what’s best for the team at that point.  If he is traded (and I hope he is not) it better be for a star to pair with Murray otherwise Landry needs to be fired. 

Edited May 14 by Bonzaii58

[REHawksFan]

58 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Murray had virtually the same offensive rating as Trae this past season

Honest question.....do you really think Murray is as capable of an offensive player as Trae?  Do you really think the Hawks would be just as good offensively with Murray leading the way as Trae? 

Please consider: 

ORTG:

Murray's at 114  (HIGHEST of his career)

Trae at 114 (2nd lowest of his career) 

So Murray at his best = Trae at his 2nd worst  (based on ORtg)

Now PER:

Murray was at 17.7 (2nd best of his career)

Trae was at 20.3 (2nd worst of his career)

Now OWS:

Murray at 3.3 (2nd most of his career)

Trae at 4.0 (2nd worst of his career)

Now OBPM:

Murray at 2.3 (2nd highest of career)

Trae at 4.9 (2nd lowest of career)

 

The REALITY of the situation is Trae is a FAR BETTER offensive player than DJM.  DJM is a capable pg.  He's a fringe all star on a 30-win team IF he's the No. 1 guy. Trae is an ELITE PG.  Trae's WORST SEASON since his rookie year was still largely better than DJM's BEST season of his career.   

I like DJM.  I like his passion and intensity.  But choosing him over Trae would be taking steps away from winning a title.  Not getting closer to it.  

Edited May 14 by REHawksFan

[AHF]

2 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

Fields is likely the one that planted or green lit this story, so I doubt you're going to hear him publicly push back here, just as he hasn't to the many other reports.  Seems like to me that ownership/front office has been considering putting Trae on the block since the team they hired Quin.  The messaging changed around then from "build around Trae at all costs" to "Quin and the new front office have the green light to make any moves necessary".  It's so painfully clear to me that we are heavily considering a path forward without Trae.  I understand most here are in denial and hand wave away all of the smoke, but these reports are often intentionally preparing the fan base, particularly when it starts coming from local news.

If he hasn't learned what happens to your leverage in trade discussions when you have your players constantly being floated in the media like this then he should be fired tomorrow.  No waiting.  We did it with JC and basically paid another team to take him.  We got zero value.  We did it with DJM and Fields couldn't find anything of value for him because everyone knew we wanted to get rid of him and felt like they had the upper hand to force us to accept a terrible deal. 

If the Hawks want to shop Trae, they need to do it from a position of strength not a position of weakness.  Everyone under the sun knew Toronto had to dump Siakam for whatever they could get and they still talked about how they wanted to keep him and how great he was and ultimately extracted nice value in return.  Voluntarily putting yourself in a position of weakness by making it publicly known you want to unload your biggest name player is beyond dumb.  If Fields voluntarily chose to do this with Trae as you speculate then he is too stupid to be our GM anymore and needs to find a new profession.

[macdaddy]

I'm just going to say it.  in 2 years no one will be as high on DJ as they are right now.  Whether he's on the Hawks or not.   He needs to dominate the ball more than Trae does to succeed as a scorer and he's not nearly as good a passer or ball handler.  

[JeffS17]

40 minutes ago, AHF said:

If he hasn't learned what happens to your leverage in trade discussions when you have your players constantly being floated in the media like this then he should be fired tomorrow.  No waiting.  We did it with JC and basically paid another team to take him.  We got zero value.  We did it with DJM and Fields couldn't find anything of value for him because everyone knew we wanted to get rid of him and felt like they had the upper hand to force us to accept a terrible deal. 

If the Hawks want to shop Trae, they need to do it from a position of strength not a position of weakness.  Everyone under the sun knew Toronto had to dump Siakam for whatever they could get and they still talked about how they wanted to keep him and how great he was and ultimately extracted nice value in return.  Voluntarily putting yourself in a position of weakness by making it publicly known you want to unload your biggest name player is beyond dumb.  If Fields voluntarily chose to do this with Trae as you speculate then he is too stupid to be our GM anymore and needs to find a new profession.

IMO you're reading way too much into why the value of JC was so low.  It had nothing to do with him being floated in rumors and everything to do with him as a player and the contract he was on.

[AHF]

32 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

IMO you're reading way too much into why the value of JC was so low.  It had nothing to do with him being floated in rumors and everything to do with him as a player and the contract he was on.

We absolutely could have traded him for value.  We let him dangle in the wind for years exploring offers.  We let him get injured and have a disasterous season.  When he finally got healthy, we traded him at the nadir of his value and got less than nothing back in return.  It was the equivalent of posting an ad on Craig's list for your sofa where anyone who is willing to pick it up can take it.  His contract absolutely was a problem but it was made worse by combination of his injured / impaired play and the common knowledge that the team was desperate to get off his contract.  Other overpaid players have been traded for much better value over the years.  

With DJM, him being dangled out there with no push back absolutely cratered his value.  He is a proven player on a value added contract (compare his numbers and his salary to FVV for example) and because teams knew we were desperate we couldn't get jack in return.  Now Fields gets to run it back this summer trying to trade one his young point guards for value.  If he is leaking stories about how Trae is one foot out the door he is choosing to tank the value for his own player before he even begins to market him.  That is like putting your house on the market with a sign that says, "Desperate to sell.  Ring bell to inquire within.  Ask for dumba**."

[bleachkit]

3 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

For what it's worth, I will be wholly disappointed if we trade Trae to the Spurs for picks back.  That signals we don't intend to win, and might even tactically tank next season.  I would be less disappointed, depending on the haul, if we trade him elsewhere for talent+picks.  I don't want our picks back, because I want us to be trying our hardest to win the next 3 seasons, which drives positive development.  So the only scenario I'll be content with trading Trae, would be to a team like New Orleans (Herb/Murphy) or somewhere like Brooklyn (Bridges/Claxton), where we get back a lot of player talent instead of a picks focused trade.  The idea wouldn't be for DJ to be better than Trae, just that the sum of the parts is better than today's sum of the parts, with more upside in the future.

I completely disagree. Get the picks back. As we can see anything can happen. The picks are unprotected, and they are an enormous liability. 

[JeffS17]

42 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

I completely disagree. Get the picks back. As we can see anything can happen. The picks are unprotected, and they are an enormous liability. 

I would rather have another teams unprotected picks than our own to be honest.  Maybe I have more faith in this coaching staff and young core than you do, but that would be my preference.  I also like the idea of having someone elses picks because it means we're focused on winning, but we can still add via the draft every year anyways.

[Hawkmoor]

4 hours ago, macdaddy said:

I'm not in denial.  I just think it's a monumental mistake that will take years for this franchise to recover from.  From both a basketball and fan interest perspective.   You can't keep sending out talent and expect fans to be interested.  

 

 

 

[AHF]

9 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

 

 

Agreed.  The last time we traded a star player it was a bit of a disaster and destroyed the most promising season in Nique’s entire run with the team.  Trading him for a lesser talent to avoid paying him was a huge PR and basketball mistake.  Better to hang on to your star a bit too long than to trade him away too early.  Make the most of it.

[Hawkmoor]

4 minutes ago, AHF said:

Agreed.  The last time we traded a star player it was a bit of a disaster and destroyed the most promising season in Nique’s entire run with the team.  Trading him for a lesser talent to avoid paying him was a huge PR and basketball mistake.  Better to hang on to your star a bit too long than to trade him away too early.  Make the most of it.

Its ironic that Lenny Wilkins felt that Wilkins was a scorer that you couldn't build a championship around.  Back then very few players in the league had the ability to overrule a head coach.  Its not the same today.  The tea leaves say Trae WANTS to be traded and I believe Quin is on board with it.  The NBA gifted the Hawks Sarr to insure the PR folks still have something to market.  Just my opinion.

[bird_dirt]

18 minutes ago, AHF said:

Agreed.  The last time we traded a star player it was a bit of a disaster and destroyed the most promising season in Nique’s entire run with the team.  Trading him for a lesser talent to avoid paying him was a huge PR and basketball mistake.  Better to hang on to your star a bit too long than to trade him away too early.  Make the most of it.

Different scenarios though. Nique was traded without his knowledge vs. Trae requesting a trade. 
Or are you in favor of mortgaging the future for appeasing the star to keep him around a little longer?