Marvelous Marvin Williams-thoughts?

[hawkman]

You could just as easily say the same thing about Horford.

If a pg comes down and takes a shot before anyone else touches the ball you can't really blame Marvin (or Horford) for not being more aggressive offensively. I think there is some fault on both sides.

True. But this game is about maximizing your opportunities and putting out max effort. Horf gets touches in the post. When he converts or at least looks competent in the post offensively, he gets more touches. When he doesn't look too good offensively, those touches are reduced. It's the same with Law and his opportunities. This game is not about giving players shots/touches/minutes/opportunities just to pad stats. Marv had to make it happen with the opportunities he's been given, and he's done that as of late.

[Cwell]

I think Marv needs to freaking ask for the ball. He is a team player and he doesnt need to be a star with Smoove, JJ, and Horf. He is a team player but how can we not give him the way he is stroking the three and attacking the basket. Woody has to see that. I think Marv goes for 20 and 10 tonight against the Cavs

Marvin doesn't go one on one so Woody doesn't care. One on one wins championships.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I think the key for Marvin, when Smith comes back, is to really be aggressive when he's out on the floor with some or all of that 2nd unit ( Acie, Flip, Evans, Zaza ).

Woody's rotation right now, is actually the same as it was last year ( although people whined and complained about it then ). He pulls Marvin midway or around the 4 - 5 minute mark in the 1st and 3rd quarters ( regardless of how he is playing ), and inserts him back into the game toward the end of the quarter.

Woody likes to give JJ his rest in that 3 - 6 minute period between end 1st - start 2nd qtrs and end 3rd - start 4th qtrs. Marvin is usually in the game when JJ is out. So if he can really look for his offense during those times, it'll help this team. And his overall output will stay somewhat the same.

The problem with that, may be Flip, who has suddenly become very Salim-esque. ( 38% FG - 34% 3FG . . with a TON of turnovers in a short span ). Flip has the green light with that 2nd unit to take every shot he wants. If he continues to struggle, that green light needs to go to Marvin.

[exodus]

Over his last 10 games Marvin is averaging 15.8 ppg shootng 50%, 57% from 3.

Over his last 5 games he is averaging 18.4 ppg shooting 47.7%, 41% from 3.

His rebounding is up to 6.4 rpg on the season.

While this may be pretty distressing to some of the haters he is becoming a productive player.

[exodus]

The problem with that, may be Flip, who has suddenly become very Salim-esque. ( 38% FG - 34% 3FG . . with a TON of turnovers in a short span ). Flip has the green light with that 2nd unit to take every shot he wants. If he continues to struggle, that green light needs to go to Marvin.

Actually Flip is becoming the guy he has been his whole career. That is why i said before the season that he needed a short leash.

[Gray Mule]

Thinking about some of the things being said, Marvin has become, because of injuries

to others, one of the real keys for the Hawks. Josh is still out. Horford just returned

and Zaza is playing with one good arm.

Someone had to get the job done. Marvin has stepped up. He's produced. He's been

the difference maker for Atlanta.

When our walking wounded heal and Josh returns, don't expect Marvin to produce as much.

Others will want and demand their share. Other teams will see what Marvin is capable

of bringing to the table and will adjust accordingly.

Marvin is not a selfish player. He's not a me, me, me type. He's a team player and for that

I applaud him. This entire Hawks team seem more concerned about team results rather

than a personal vendetta.

Kudos to Marvin for working on and developing his three point shot. That alone has

made a huge difference in his overall game.

Do you realise that, had he stayed in school for the four years he could have, Marvin

would be a rookie this season? Instead, he has three years NBA experience and,

in this, his fourth season, is looking to break thru and become what all true Hawk

fans have wanted from him from the beginning.

GO HAWKS!!

[Atlantaholic]

Last year Marvin also started the season playing extremely well...

I'm not holding my breath on Marvin becoming a great player, at least not until I see a full season's worth of proof.

As long as he keeps hitting that three and rebounding though, I'm happy with him.

Edited November 22, 2008 by Atlantaholic

[tonegully]

i love marvin. I think he is doing a good job. I just keep wondering with him shooting as good as he is. That Woody doesn't put him in charge of the second team and making sure that he touches the ball before it goes in the air..the JJ of the second team.

[DrReality]

I guess marvin doing well is one way to keep Diesel quiet.

[bronnt]

Last year Marvin also started the season playing extremely well...

I'm not holding my breath on Marvin becoming a great player, at least not until I see a full season's worth of proof.

As long as he keeps hitting that three and rebounding though, I'm happy with him.

He did start the season extremely well last year, but the difference this year is the three point shot.

Let's be honest, it's tough to shoot the mid range jumper at a high enough rate to develop it into a consistently useful offensive tool. You'd need to constantly hit those at over a 50% clip in order to rely on that (which was the only thing he really did well last year). And only two NBA players with more than 100 attempts hit over 50% on those shots.

Even if you're hitting threes at a fairly pedestrian 36%, that's still efficient since they're worth three points. Just having the ability and confidence to shoot from out there is a significant step in his offensive game.

As for the rebounding, he can't and really doesn't need to sustain that once Horford and Smoove are back healthy. Nobody looks for big rebounding numbers from their starting SF...except Cleveland. If he just averages around 6 (with a few double digit nights sprinkled in) picks up his defense just a little, and keeps knocking down shots, he's exactly what we need.

Edited November 22, 2008 by bronnt

[Guest Walter]

He was a horrible pick and will always be worthless no matter what he does. So there.

W

Who's been more right about MW, you or I? You've given the man a free pass for 4 years. Repeatedly moving the goal posts closer and closer for him.

I haven't called MW a bust, but he was the 3rd worst out of 3 possible picks. Said it then. Still is. Always will be. I've also said that currently MW has less impact than even his meager staters stats would suggest and likely has more value for us in a trade.

Exodus, when have you EVER been right about MW? You've given him a pass for FOUR YEARS! No amount of ad hominem attack against me makes MW any better or you look any less apologist. :computer8:

Lastly, I love that MW has had some good games lately. I WANT to be wrong about MW! As a player or as trade value he is our last best hope at more than mediocrity. It's just that over the long haul I repeatedly haven't been wrong about him.

W

[exodus]

Who's been more right about MW, you or I? You've given the man a free pass for 4 years. Repeatedly moving the goal posts closer and closer for him.

I haven't called MW a bust, but he was the 3rd worst out of 3 possible picks. Said it then. Still is. Always will be. I've also said that currently MW has less impact than even his meager staters stats would suggest and likely has more value for us in a trade.

Exodus, when have you EVER been right about MW? You've given him a pass for FOUR YEARS! No amount of ad hominem attack against me makes MW any better or you look any less apologist. :computer8:

Lastly, I love that MW has had some good games lately. I WANT to be wrong about MW! As a player or as trade value he is our last best hope at more than mediocrity. It's just that over the long haul I repeatedly haven't been wrong about him.

W

LOL so now you are resorting to making stuff up? I'm not surprised.

Name one thing i have EVER said about MW that has been wrong. EVER. I have said all along he was a bad pick, unlikely to ever be an All-Star. Before the season i said if he didn't start making 3s i would have no problem if they let him walk.

You are just too stupid to realize THAT THE 2005 DRAFT IS OVER. WE ALREADY KNOW THAT MW WAS A BAD PICK SO WHY ARE YOU EVEN BRINGING UP THE DRAFT?!

Marvin didn't pick himself and the guy who picked him is gone. Get your head out of your ass. You are still trying to fight a battle that has already ended.

[thefloydian]

Exodus is right.

[Diesel]

Since it was asked of me, I will answer.

Marvin has shown to be a pretty good set shot shooter. However, he was stilll a bad pick and on this team, he's not expendable but he's not the most necessary player either. Just like his style of play, he's very mediocre.

Would I trade him?

Probably for the right deal. But that's true for every hawk. At this point, it's becoming harder and harder to come up with a good trade for him because his value is increasing. I mean, we have driven Chillz out and Smoove is hurt... so the need for trading Marvin has decreased.

[AtLaS]

Marvin's numbers are similar to what they were last season, but I'm much more impressed by him this season. He's hitting the three, and he's actually finishing inside when he takes it to the rack. That right handed runner in the lane is working very well and he just seems more in control when he puts the ball on the floor.

[Diesel]

Exodus is right.

Exodus is right in saying that Marvin didn't pick himself.. but he's totally wrong in thinking that Marvin goes blameless for the last 4 yrs of mediocrity. The bottom line is that it's up to the player to make himself the best player he can be. Marvin hasn't shown the willingness to be his best. Even this new thing for him is fitting his personality. He waits to the JJ does all the work and passes it to him. The thing that some people found likable in Flip is the thing that you find sickening in Marvin. Flip will go out and make his own shots and create for himself. Marvin is a 2nd pick overall and he doesn't. Not even after 4 years. So now Marvin looks good because we have more shooters... Wow that's great... that means that we always have to keep scorers around Marvin so that Marvin can look good.

The funny thing is that exodus has no bar for Marvin, but listen to him rail on Horford all day long? Can anyone say Hypocrite.

[exodus]

Exodus is right in saying that Marvin didn't pick himself.. but he's totally wrong in thinking that Marvin goes blameless for the last 4 yrs of mediocrity. The bottom line is that it's up to the player to make himself the best player he can be. Marvin hasn't shown the willingness to be his best. Even this new thing for him is fitting his personality. He waits to the JJ does all the work and passes it to him. The thing that some people found likable in Flip is the thing that you find sickening in Marvin. Flip will go out and make his own shots and create for himself. Marvin is a 2nd pick overall and he doesn't. Not even after 4 years. So now Marvin looks good because we have more shooters... Wow that's great... that means that we always have to keep scorers around Marvin so that Marvin can look good.

The funny thing is that exodus has no bar for Marvin, but listen to him rail on Horford all day long? Can anyone say Hypocrite.

Nice revisionist history. I have busted Marvin's chops repeatedly for not shooting 3s, jumping into people all the time when he drives, being clumsy, not hitting the boards, etc. I said before the season they could just let him walk if he doesn't start hitting 3s.. How is that not holding him accountable.

You are the one that is a hypocrit. You rail on Marvin who averaged 15 ppg last year but won't say anything about Horford who is averaging 9.

The bottom line is that Marvin just doesn't have the talent to be a star no matter how hard he works. However he can be an valuable player if he addresses the weaknesses in his game and it sure looks like he has been doing that.

[Diesel]

Nice revisionist history. I have busted Marvin's chops repeatedly for not shooting 3s, jumping into people all the time when he drives, being clumsy, not hitting the boards, etc. I said before the season they could just let him walk if he doesn't start hitting 3s.. How is that not holding him accountable.

You are the one that is a hypocrit. You rail on Marvin who averaged 15 ppg last year but won't say anything about Horford who is averaging 9.

The bottom line is that Marvin just doesn't have the talent to be a star no matter how hard he works. However he can be an valuable player if he addresses the weaknesses in his game and it sure looks like he has been doing that.

I think yours is the only revision of history here. You have repeated been Marvin's biggest defender and the slowest to criticize him... with such statements as "He's only 18, 19, 20, 21" or "he didn't pick himself' or "he's got great upside". Everytime Marvin has shown a flicker, you jump on your " i knew it" high horse and everytime he let's you down you jump off the horse and start the defense. You can't be it all Exodus... you'd rather look good than be honest... and that's unacceptable.

[Peoriabird]

but he's totally wrong in thinking that Marvin goes blameless for the last 4 yrs of mediocrity. The bottom line is that it's up to the player to make himself the best player he can be. Marvin hasn't shown the willingness to be his best. Even this new thing for him is fitting his personality. He waits to the JJ does all the work and passes it to him. The thing that some people found likable in Flip is the thing that you find sickening in Marvin. Flip will go out and make his own shots and create for himself. Marvin is a 2nd pick overall and he doesn't. Not even after 4 years. So now Marvin looks good because we have more shooters... Wow that's great... that means that we always have to keep scorers around Marvin so that Marvin can look good.

And everybody was so happy when you said something positive about Marvin 2 weeks ago but as we all can see, a leopard does not change its spots

[exodus]

I think yours is the only revision of history here. You have repeated been Marvin's biggest defender and the slowest to criticize him... with such statements as "He's only 18, 19, 20, 21" or "he didn't pick himself' or "he's got great upside". Everytime Marvin has shown a flicker, you jump on your " i knew it" high horse and everytime he let's you down you jump off the horse and start the defense. You can't be it all Exodus... you'd rather look good than be honest... and that's unacceptable.

Again you are just making stuff up. I did say " he didn't pick himself" because it is true. The guy who picked him is out of the NBA.

I never said anything about him having great upside. I never said anything even remotely like "i knew it" with Marvin because i never predicted anything. I HOPED he could be a productive player. I HOPED he could be a legit 3 pt shooter. But i never predicted anything of the sort.

I just refused to trash him because he was a bad pick.

Funny how you use quotes but don't supply any links to where i said these things. I can play that game too.

Diesel said..

"Zaza will be a 20/10 player during the last year of his contract. Book it."

"Childress will make the All-Star team before his rookie contract is up."

"Harrington will make the All-Star team after he leaves us".

Boy this is fun!