Give me one reason why Bibby shouldn't be sixth man

[DrReality]

Two reasons that won't happen are his ego and his contract. Just can't see it happening, although it could help Acie. He needs to know what to expect every night.

[exodus]

Ultimately it is up to Acie to play well enough to force Woody to play him. He isn't going to take away many of Bibby's minutes but he could take some from Flip.

[macdaddy]

Ultimately it is up to Acie to play well enough to force Woody to play him. He isn't going to take away many of Bibby's minutes but he could take some from Flip.

YES. Flip is showing why he's gone from team to team. I like him but Woody has to keep a short leash on him. He's looked like crap lately but stays on the floor for some unknown reason. How many turnovers did he have the other night? It was embarrasing.

The offense has always been Woody's weakness. I'll give him credit for getting these guys to play defense but we won't go far without a real offensive scheme. Its been the same for 4 years I don't think its going to change. When the jumpers are falling we're ok otherwise we've got problems.

[Packfill]

AC was in against the starters in the 4th but no doubt they had relaxed somewhat. That said he put on an impressive show and in my mind should earn some more opportunities going forward. That is how it works - you show out in whatever minutes you get, then you get more minutes in more meaningful times of the game.

I don't think AC has shown NEARLY enough to warrant starting over Bibby at this point. Bibby is not much more than a shooter, it's true, but he has been shooting it well and with him and Marvin being able to spread the floor it allows Joe room to operate. AC was good last night but he has had ample opportunity to earn tick this year and thus far he simply has not done so, in my opinion. After last night I would like to see him get another chance in some extended time within the next few games.

I think where AC should get a look is those nights when Evil Flip comes to the floor. You can tell what type of game Flip is gonna have within 3 minutes of game time. When he is out there turning it over and jacking bricks I think he should get a quick hook and AC should get his shot.

CWell is a little over-the-top in his criticism of Woody but it is fair to say that Woodson has shown that he will give his vets a much longer leash than that of his young players. Woodson will let Flip have those 2-13, 5 TO nights whereas AC would be yanked and forgotten on the bench after only a couple of minutes if he came out like that.

It would be great if AC could be an effective part of the rotation because he is a much better matchup for the Rondo, Harris, Ford, Augustine type that give the Hawks such fits.

He is also the only guy who has consistently shown the ability to get to the rack at will, which opens things up for shooters and bigs alike. I think AC really does not know what to do offensively when he is on the floor with Joe because he knows he is supposed to defer to Joe, but then that takes him out of what he does best (breaking down the defense with dribble-penetration) and turns him into a spot-shooter (which Bibby is much better at). He needs to just be aggressive because a drive/score or drive/dish is what is going to keep him on the floor. He will have the ball going through his hands on most possessions any way so he needs to be aggressive like he is with the 2nd team.

The truth lies somewhere in the middle between the plskeepbibby and Cwell camps. No doubt it will help everybody if both are playing and playing well. I hope Woody does the right thing and gives AC another chance because he basically deflected a question about AC's good play in the postgame interview.

Thanks.

I hope Acie starts turning the corner but it is still too early to tell whether he is a future starter or not. The Hawks will be in a difficult position in the off-season if Acie does not demonstrate the ability to step-up and start next season.

[AHF]

My one good reason why Bibby should not move to the bench is that Law is just not ready. Like others, I think it is very important to the team that Law develops over the course of this season into someone who is a valuable part of the rotation and develops so he is ready to at least be a major factor in PG playing time next season and preferably so he is ready to take over the starting PG role. But that all indicates more of a need for consistent minutes and giving him whatever role he can handle rather than thrusting him into the starting PG role.

We need a lot from Bibby this season to maximize the team's performance and benching him could also hurt his attitude and productivity. Just nothing to warrant the change at this time, IMO.

[coachx]

YES. Flip is showing why he's gone from team to team. I like him but Woody has to keep a short leash on him. He's looked like crap lately but stays on the floor for some unknown reason. How many turnovers did he have the other night? It was embarrasing.

The offense has always been Woody's weakness. I'll give him credit for getting these guys to play defense but we won't go far without a real offensive scheme. Its been the same for 4 years I don't think its going to change. When the jumpers are falling we're ok otherwise we've got problems.

Its not Woodson's fault we have not had one single offensive scoring threat in the post to run a more consistent offense through for 4 (+) seasons.

Heck, this is the first year he has had the shooters to spread the floor using Mo Evans, rather then Chillz, and Marvin's new found long range shot. Remember the first 40 games of last season ? We had no one in the starting lineup who could hit a 3 consistently except for JJ. Marvin spacing the floor for a 18 ft jumper is not as effective as spotting up and spacing 25 feet out.

You can't say our shooters are not getting open looks in the offense (even though there is no post scoring threat to suck the defense inside.) Like any jump shooting team, without a post scorer, the jumpers won't fall every night. However, how is that Woodson's fault.

He is working quite well with the hand he has been dealt.

Edited November 24, 2008 by coachx

[plskeepbibby]

it is obvious that many of you people have been hawks fans for 13 games. especially the two that acie law has looked good in. i thought this site was for intelligent basketball/hawks fans. but obviously everyone thinks that mike bibby is the problem with our team. i saw a post in another topic that said mike bibby should be traded for baron davis. first of all baron davis is not leaving LA who just signed him to a big contract. and 2nd baron davis does not fit woody's offense any better than you people think bibby does. 2ndly we are paying 14 million i am not dealing with a 14 million dollar 6th man you are nuts. Acie Law is not what he was at Texas A n M and i dont think he ever will be again. he is very hesitant in whatever role he has played and i dont understand what you people are watching. every one wants him to have more playing time, well if was worth more playing time dont you think he would get what he deserved. And lastly the hawks have been better with mike bibby running the show than they have been in the past 5 years. our win loss record with mike bibby proves that. Atlanta finnally has a decent point gaurd but u idiots are still not happy. if you think we are gonna pay him 14 million next year your crazy as we will be able to get him much cheaper. Acie Law is not the answer right now and I wish that all you morons would quit blaming a player who has made our beloved hawks drastically better for all of this 8-5 teams record. I cant imagine all the hate everyone would have for bibby if we were 3-10. dont blame bibby for it, you should still stick it to billy knight for passing over paul or deron, and another thing I love the hawks, ALL OF THEM the whole damn team and will whoever is playing for them. Support your team instead of criticizing them every 5 minutes JESUS!!!

[TruJerz]

one reason why Bibby shouldnt be our 6th man is because he is the best PG on the team..there u have it. one reason

[AtLaS]

Let me explain it to you. Acie dominated the ball in the 4th quarter. Led the fast breaks and set the table in the half court. This is usually what JJ does especially in the half court. JJ essentially didn't touch the ball when Acie was running point because Acie was setting up our big men for layup and dunks or shooting layups himself. JJ felt a little left out after a while so Woodson called an isolation play for JJ which ended in disaster. In fact you didn't even know JJ was on the floor when acie was running point because the offense was totally different. No stagnant posts ups or Iso plays. He attacked the rim aggressively. And this was not during garbage time because the Cav's starters were still in the game. Acie also made our 3 point shooter look good because he as drawing the defense in and kicking out to a wide open Mo Evans. In short the Joe Iso play was abandon which our main offense play and if this continues, I think that Joe would be unhappy,

Didn't see this post until now but this is very incorrect. JJ was sitting during the last half of the 3rd and the early part of the 4th until we went on a run (which Acie sparked) and THEN he put JJ back in when the game got closer. The Cavs also put their starters back in. The fact is that Joe was sitting most of the time when Acie scored most of his points, and the Cavs had backups in for most of that time as well.

[AtLaS]

Its not Woodson's fault we have not had one single offensive scoring threat in the post to run a more consistent offense through for 4 (+) seasons.

There are exactly FIVE post scoring options in the entire NBA. Duncan, Shaq, Dwight, Jefferson, and Yao. It's not something that is easily found. All of the other great PF/C scorers are face up guys that can make the midrange J, and play a lot of pick and roll, which is what we should be running with Bibby/Horford but for some reason Woodson won't do it.

[crimedog]

Wow Acie has 2 good games and all of the sudden people get back on the bandwagon to anoint him our savior at point? Give me a break, this is such a knee-jerk reaction post it isn't even funny.

Well, its kind of funny.

For one, Acie wasn't a "pure" point guard in college. He was very much a scoring guard. There were good reasons for it - notably it was effective, but he wasn't a pass first type of guy. Maybe he can be, he definitely had a good game... which is something, but its not enough to start changing everything around.

The big problem that I see in putting Bibby on the bench is that it is almost garaunteed to damage his confidence. Whether or not you think it should, it will. He's a pro-athlete who has been playing well this season, he's gonna take it personally to be benched for a guy who has to this point been a disappointment outside of one game. That means we get less production from Bibby and we aren't assured of more production from Acie.

Let Acie earn the starting job... let him earn the backup job for goodness sake. If he has the talent, he should be able to.

The good thing is that the Cleveland game was a legitimately good game for an NBA player. It wasn't the type of "good game" that Acie has had up to this point in his career where he has 8 points on 5 shots or he had 2 points but 6 assists and no TOs. He had a legit 20-7-6 game which is very nice and in my mind shows that the "flashes" that we saw were actually flashes and not just abberations. Acie needs to build on that game and prove CWell and the rest of the officers of the Acie Law fan club right.

[TruJerz]

Exactly. And I will emphasis he has to earn it. Two good games isn't enough to warrant moving a 10+ year veteran to the bench especially when Bibby has been playing well this year. It isn't like Bibby has had a drastic decrease in production. Bibby is around the same per minute production as his 03-04 season with the exception that he has not gotten to the line very much this year. I find that to be a good thing though, why do you want Bibby to drive the lane and get fouled more often? I would rather he not and stay healthy than drive and start getting banged up.

exactly, Bibby is playing well. and its not like the other 29 teams in the league has the best PG on their team coming off the bench. i dont get why Bibby shouldnt start. trading is is something else but to start Acie Law over Bibby just aint right even tho I think Acie should see some more playing time

[hawkman]

exactly, Bibby is playing well. and its not like the other 29 teams in the league has the best PG on their team coming off the bench. i dont get why Bibby shouldnt start. trading is is something else but to start Acie Law over Bibby just aint right even tho I think Acie should see some more playing time

Nice to see there are some sensible fans out there. All I hear is give this player this, or give this player that. Whatever happened to a player EARNING something? Minutes should be based on production, and Law has only just started to really produce. He has to sustain it, no matter how much or how little time he gets. He was in the doghouse because he had the ability to drive the whole time, but just didn't do it. Whether it was due to fear or nerves, it doesn't matter. The coach plays the player(s) that produce or who have produced in the past. Woodson is trying to win games and keep his job, not play YOUR favorite player(s). Besides Bibby, even with his defensive deficiencies, is the best PG on the roster in almost a decade.

Edited November 25, 2008 by hawkman