Joe Johnson needs to be traded.

[Admin]

The title of this thread should be "Joe Johnson needs to be RESTED". There is no other reason for his play being this poor relative to what he's done in his career other than he's worn out. Not that I want him to be injured but it would almost be a good thing if he pulled a hamstring or something so that he'd get some rest.

To suggest we trade him because of a slump is utterly ridiculous.

[benhillboy]

I routinely point out Joe's glaring flaws on numerous blogs, win or lose. We could win by 20 and he wouldn't record a single and-1. What's wrong with wanting more when your focal player has a max contract yet leaves more to be desired?

We could have a town hall debate every day on how effective Joe is, crunch numbers like nerds, evaluate the players around him from night to night, and whether you like him or don't particularly care for him. But that's the thing: he's not a player who invokes much emotion from fans. I certainly don't hate the guy, as I'm sure most detractors don't, but I simply will never love him as a Hawk. Opposing coaches of upper-echelon teams certainly don't lose sleep over the guy. They recognize he's highly skilled, which is why he is voted an All-Star by them. But to a man behind closed doors, I 'm sure they'd tell you his desire, will, and competitiveness is no match for their respective leaders, which is a testament to the team play that has the Hawks currently among the top 8 teams in the league.

Edited January 26, 2009 by benhillboy

[Plainview1981]

The title of this thread should be "Joe Johnson needs to be RESTED". There is no other reason for his play being this poor relative to what he's done in his career other than he's worn out. Not that I want him to be injured but it would almost be a good thing if he pulled a hamstring or something so that he'd get some rest.

To suggest we trade him because of a slump is utterly ridiculous.

Slump? Other than about 2 months, his shooting has been mediocre for about a season and a half. A slump is struggling over a reasonably short period of time.

Edited January 26, 2009 by Hotlanta1981

[HawkItus]

Come on man. This is ridiculous. Joe Johnson is probably the second best player to ever suit up for the Atlanta Hawks. The man had 13 assists. We didn't lose because of Joe. We lost because Bibby was off and Woody didn't play Flip at the end like he should have. I swear, it's dumb post like this that give Atlanta fans a bad name.

[macdaddy]

Is there anyone here that things we run good offensive sets? The offense is basically to hope Bibby or Joe does something with it. With an offense designed to get Joe open looks or let him drive/post vs. making him create everything his offensive numbers just might be a lot better.

[lifelong]

we run offensive sets? weird, never noticed that since woody took over.

[crimedog]

I love this board.

I wouldn't trade Joe now for the same reason I wouldn't have traded Smith a month ago when every other post was a "trade Smovve" or "Josh Smith Loss us this oNe".

Don't consider trading guys when they are playing poorly.

I'd trade anyone on this roster for the right deal because the fact of the matter is, none of the guys on this roster are superstars.

That being said, this board is ridiculous in its blind loyalty to Joe. We all know what Hotlanta does, he doesn't represent the average fan. He's the voice of pessimism around here. The rest of us should be able to admit when Joe has a bad game. When Smith hits half his shots for 19 points and snags 12 rebounds, most of us will be able to find a reason to blame this on him. Some of us will ALWAYS say we lost because Law should have been playing instead of Bibby (although Bibby did blow last night and was as guilty as anyone for the final score). Many of us will blame Woody, regardless of the circumstance. But when Joe, who is primarily here as a scorer, misses 15 shots and is completely invisible in crunch time, its sacrilege to say he had a bad game.

You can criticize the guy and still be a fan of his and the team's. He's not gonna read this and say, "ah man, gsuteke doesn't think I'm flawless anymore, I'm outta here"

[Antmillennium]

I love this board.

I wouldn't trade Joe now for the same reason I wouldn't have traded Smith a month ago when every other post was a "trade Smovve" or "Josh Smith Loss us this oNe".

Don't consider trading guys when they are playing poorly.

I'd trade anyone on this roster for the right deal because the fact of the matter is, none of the guys on this roster are superstars.

That being said, this board is ridiculous in its blind loyalty to Joe. We all know what Hotlanta does, he doesn't represent the average fan. He's the voice of pessimism around here. The rest of us should be able to admit when Joe has a bad game. When Smith hits half his shots for 19 points and snags 12 rebounds, most of us will be able to find a reason to blame this on him. Some of us will ALWAYS say we lost because Law should have been playing instead of Bibby (although Bibby did blow last night and was as guilty as anyone for the final score). Many of us will blame Woody, regardless of the circumstance. But when Joe, who is primarily here as a scorer, misses 15 shots and is completely invisible in crunch time, its sacrilege to say he had a bad game.

You can criticize the guy and still be a fan of his and the team's. He's not gonna read this and say, "ah man, gsuteke doesn't think I'm flawless anymore, I'm outta here"

You're absolutely right. Some guys act as if Joe Johnson should be above criticism. I'm sorry, but even with his 13 assists, he's a big reason why the Hawks lost last night. He absolutely stunk in the 4th quarter. He was cold all game, and he was taking the shots in crunch time and setting up an ice-cold Bibby to take shots in crunch time. That's bad shooting and bad decision-making. Johnson also didn't bother to get to the freethrow line. Johnson also missed an easy layup in the 4th - which actually should have been a dunk. Some of you guys need to admit that Johnson has some big flaws in his game. He's a good player when his shot is on, but he has big holes in his game that are glaring weaknesses when his shot is off. I don't see what's so bad about being honest and pointing out flaws in Johnson's game. He's far from perfect.

[mrhonline]

Loss us this oNe".

:laughing5:

[AHF]

The title of this thread should be "Joe Johnson needs to be RESTED". There is no other reason for his play being this poor relative to what he's done in his career other than he's worn out. Not that I want him to be injured but it would almost be a good thing if he pulled a hamstring or something so that he'd get some rest.

To suggest we trade him because of a slump is utterly ridiculous.

:thumbsupsmileyanim:

I was about to post this, too. Woodson overworks JJ every year. Every year, JJ wears down and his effectiveness declines. He gets hurt or gets some rest and he perks back up. When Abraham got rest for the Falcons this year, his effectiveness increased. It is the same with JJ. He needs some rest and now we have SG who can fill in for him with some production in Flip. I don't know why this amounts to a zero reduction in JJ's minutes, though. Oh, right, it is because Flip is a true PG and that is his only role with the team. Sigh.

[Diesel]

I'm not even going to argue the merits of Joe Johnson. Instead, I will go to the next step with you...

Hots,

PROVIDE A TRADE PROPOSAL OF JOE JOHNSON.

:computer2:

[HawkItus]

I don't see anyone saying Joe can't be criticized, but I do think Joe is being unfairly blamed for this loss. If his shot isn't falling what can he do? He took the ball inside more this game. He passed up shots to get others a chance(see 13 assists). But, we all know the offense is designed for Joe to take shots. Many of his misses were open shots he's supposed to take and he just missed. Bibby was off as well. The guys that should have gotten more time were Flip and Evans. Both went through slumps earlier. It happens. Players have bad stretches. The difference is Joe doesn't shoot 50 times to still get his numbers like the "stars" do when they are slumping.

[crimedog]

I'm not even going to argue the merits of Joe Johnson. Instead, I will go to the next step with you...

Hots,

PROVIDE A TRADE PROPOSAL OF JOE JOHNSON.

:computer2:

Right, especially when he's playing poorly. You don't have leverage when you want to trade a guy who has shot sub-40% for the past month and you end up getting lower returns and looking stupid when he gets back.

Not to mention that unless you are trading Johnson for a similarly talented but similarly not-superstar player like Redd, Martin, or Ellis (not sure if the Kings/Warriors would do those but even if they would), you are essentially rebuilding. If you do trade him for a guy like Redd or Ellis, you are treading water at best or adding a similar talent who doesn't fit as well at worst.

My other post may have come across as overly-critical of Joe, but I think I was just being honest.

I think the honest reality of the situation is that Joe isn't the athlete to be able to carry an offense for 40 minutes a game. This necessitates two things in my opinion:

1) Run the offense through Bibby/Josh more often and allow Joe to trot up court unmolested and wait for a catch-and-shoot more often. This has two benefits in that it allows Joe to spend less time dealing with intense on-ball defense and gives Smith more options of playing inside and fewer playing outside. I think Josh has proven over the past couple seasons and the past month that he can be an extremely effective offensive force when he is put in the position to play inside and its harder for him to do that in the Joe iso sets.

2) Play Joe less in the first 3 quarters. Teams give up leads and coaches have to be conservative. There are always going to be tight games where you want your man in during the fourth so Woody needs to make those mechanical subbing decisions he's been prone to making with Marv in the past with Joe. Even if the game is tight in the second, pull Joe for a few minutes at the end and let him rest up. Again, run the offense through Bibby/Josh/Al/Marv/Flip... let Evans play instead of Joe when Evans is hitting.

I heard Van Gundy and Marc Jackson Blathering about how Greg Popp was the best ever at "seeing the big picture" game to game. Woody needs to take note that sometimes a move that might hurt you a little in the 2nd quarter of one game will help you win a couple down the line.

[Diesel]

I'm not even going to argue the merits of Joe Johnson. Instead, I will go to the next step with you...

Hots,

PROVIDE A TRADE PROPOSAL OF JOE JOHNSON.

:computer2:

Hots, I have heard from others... Since you're the leader of the let's trade Joe contingency... Help me visualize... Propose a trade for him!!!!

[crimedog]

I don't see anyone saying Joe can't be criticized, but I do think Joe is being unfairly blamed for this loss. If his shot isn't falling what can he do? He took the ball inside more this game. He passed up shots to get others a chance(see 13 assists). But, we all know the offense is designed for Joe to take shots. Many of his misses were open shots he's supposed to take and he just missed. Bibby was off as well. The guys that should have gotten more time were Flip and Evans. Both went through slumps earlier. It happens. Players have bad stretches. The difference is Joe doesn't shoot 50 times to still get his numbers like the "stars" do when they are slumping.

He had the most shots on the team. He was missing the "gimmes" that we get on other guys for missing. He still held the ball too long.

Joe is a great player who had a bad game but since we didn't lose because we turned it over too many times or we got outrebounded or we let a dude go off for 40 but because we didn't even shoot 42%, you gotta look at the guys who missed the most shots.

Saying that Joe had a big hand in the loss doesn't mean he was the only one who made mistakes nor does it mean he's a bad player nor does it mean he needs to be traded. It means what it means which is he had a bad game.

[buckeye242424]

He had the most shots on the team. He was missing the "gimmes" that we get on other guys for missing. He still held the ball too long.

Joe is a great player who had a bad game but since we didn't lose because we turned it over too many times or we got outrebounded or we let a dude go off for 40 but because we didn't even shoot 42%, you gotta look at the guys who missed the most shots.

Saying that Joe had a big hand in the loss doesn't mean he was the only one who made mistakes nor does it mean he's a bad player nor does it mean he needs to be traded. It means what it means which is he had a bad game.

Yeah, smart idea. Trade Joe. Trade the best player on a team that has sucked for a decade and now are 26-17, 4th best in the East. Great thinking. Let's trade our most important piece....brilliant!

[crimedog]

Yeah, smart idea. Trade Joe. Trade the best player on a team that has sucked for a decade and now are 26-17, 4th best in the East. Great thinking. Let's trade our most important piece....brilliant!

Wow, it must suck to be half-literate.

[HawkItus]

He had the most shots on the team. He was missing the "gimmes" that we get on other guys for missing. He still held the ball too long.

Joe is a great player who had a bad game but since we didn't lose because we turned it over too many times or we got outrebounded or we let a dude go off for 40 but because we didn't even shoot 42%, you gotta look at the guys who missed the most shots.

Saying that Joe had a big hand in the loss doesn't mean he was the only one who made mistakes nor does it mean he's a bad player nor does it mean he needs to be traded. It means what it means which is he had a bad game.

I understand what your saying, but I think even Joe recognizes he's not Kobe, Lebron, Wade.

All three of those guys are at a point or more over 20 for FGA. Joe sits a few ticks below 19. He clearly doesn't dominate the ball like other superstars do. Yes he had a bad game. But, without his 13 assists I don't know that we would have been as close as we were.

[buckeye242424]

I understand what your saying, but I think even Joe recognizes he's not Kobe, Lebron, Wade.

All three of those guys are at a point or more over 20 for FGA. Joe sits a few ticks below 19. He clearly doesn't dominate the ball like other superstars do. Yes he had a bad game. But, without his 13 assists I don't know that we would have been as close as we were.

Sorry Crimedog, I didn't mean to reply directly to you...I just read the thread "trade Joe" and about fell out of my chair. That's insanity.

[crimedog]

Sorry Crimedog, I didn't mean to reply directly to you...I just read the thread "trade Joe" and about fell out of my chair. That's insanity.

Ha, happened again. No worries.