Marvin has done nothing to earn 8 Million per.

[thefloydian]

We both know that there are other factors as to the results of the poll. I'm just glad to see that there were many who agreed with me that Marvin hasn't done anything to earn 8 per over 5 years. I wouldn't have a problem with 7 per over 3 or maybe something simlar to what Ariza is getting. I just think it would be a mistake... a Speedy Claxton type mistake to give Marvin 8 per over 5 years. At 8 per.. it's going to be hard to trade him because the position is so easy to fill with a dime a dozen Sf ( at much cheaper). 8+ Million dollar Sfs make impacts and carry teams. Butler is a team leader. Granger is a team leader. Turk was a team leader. Lewis was a team leader. Nobody here can name a 4th option that's making 8+ Million. Even when PTL had all those superstars and contract money flowed like a river... their 4th option (Wallace) was not making 8+ Million per.

Granger and Butler both make more than 8 mil a year. So does Luol Deng. I think even Al Harrington Q-Rich were making more than that. And these are on older contracts. 8 million dollar SFs do not carry their teams unless they are playing for less than they're worth.

I also don't understand why we're talking about Portland's salary structure at the turn of the century.

Edited July 15, 2009 by thefloydian

[Plainview1981]

Basically, without potential being involved, I don't think Marvin has earned 8 Million per. 8 Million per handcuffs us to Marvin because No team will pay that much for a Sf when there are better SFs that can be drafted late. NJ wouldn't dare trade Terrance Williams for an 8 Million dollar Marvin. Do you think Phoenix would part with Earl Clark for Marvin at 8? Even Memphis with 2nd round Pick Sam Young would be hard pressed to take Marvin at 8 in exchange.

Marvin at 8 will be a death sentence for the hopes of this franchise ever reaching the next level.

We will be stuck with a mediocre player who doesn't have the determination to do anything.

BTW, as before, you can mark it down. Take the picture, save this quote for prosperity.

We should not sign Marvin to a long term deal!

Not even close. He is replaceable production. It's laughable that a 13/5 player could get so much.

[Plainview1981]

Doesn't have the determination to do anything? Like leading the team in FT attempts per FG attempt or going from an awful 3pt shooter to become a dangerous 3pt shooter that can knock them down in the clutch in only one offseason?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/splits?playerId=2797

How does somebody that has shot the 3 ball well 2 months of a 4 year career a deadly 3pt shooter? Sorry, but that's just incorrect. You take way his 3pt shooting for the month of November and his 3pt shooting isn't all that great.

Edited July 15, 2009 by Hotlanta1981

[Plainview1981]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't we win more games this year? Or was it improvement by the other players (whom you don't hate) that led to that winning?

8 games over .500 without Marvin and 4 games over .500 with Marvin. That shouldn't get Marvin 8 million per year.

All I can tell you is that when Bibby and JJ have passed Marvin the ball he has delivered. You can call that what you want but he has delivered when given the opportunity.

Sorry but you're living in the past if you think trading Marvin for a much older Battier would make us 1.5 times better. They are on opposite sides of the hill as far as their careers is concerned with Marvin improving and Battier declining. Although Battier did get a whopping 7 points and 5 rebounds in 34 minutes per game last year while Marvin only got 14 points and 6 rebounds in the same 34 minutes, but yeah Battier would make us sooooooooooooooooooooooooo much better.

Diesel did go overboard with that one.

[Plainview1981]

Well it looks like your poll is not going your way so I'd say that the people have disagreed D. The Hawks have reportedly offered him 37.5 so they clearly think he's worth more than 35 as well. Personally I'd love to pay him 7 million and as the 4th option on the Hawks that's about all that he should get but if he was given a bigger role in the offense then I'd gladly pay him 8 million and he'd quickly prove to you that he was worth it.

I'd love to see Marvin receive double teams for a while with his clumsy offensive game. People would realize that he doesn't have the game to be a top option every night. Knowing that defenses don't really give two shyts about him is what allows him to even be as productive as he is.

[Plainview1981]

14 pts and 6 rebs, for a non All-Star small forward playing on a playoff team is above the the league average.

How is Smith so much more loved when he averaged 15.6 and 7.2.

So Smith is worth his contract, ( at 1.5 more points, and 1 more rebound per game while playing 1 more minute a game) but marvin isnt worth 2 million less.

I really dont understand the evaluation of our players worths around here Diesel. You rather pay Smith his money to dribble up the court, turn it over, get easy fast break dunks, shoot 58% from the free throw line, and avg 15.6 and 7.2 THAN Pay Marv 8 mil to take 220 FEWER attempts (in 8 fewer games), and only avg 1.5 less points, 1 less rebound, 190 FEWER turnovers (Marv avg the FEWEST turnovers of any of our starters btw)

I think we need to look at the bigger picture here. For a guy who was the 5th scoring option behind Bibby, Joe, Smith, AND Flip. to put up those numbers, that may not blow you away, but it is very VERY good compared to other non All-Star SF's. we need to get off his back and appreciate that. So he is not aggresive, he still averages well for his position. Everybody on the team cant average 20 pts a game.

So please Diesel, why arent you bashing Smoove, because according to your judgement, he is GROSSLY Overpayed

Until this year Josh Smith was a shot blocker and could get some steals. Marvin doesn't do a lot of either. But Josh didn't have a good year this past year.

[itsslomotionbaby]

i dont think marvin is a bad player, man the way some of you all talk its as if he was a bottom of the barrell bench player, their were times last year when he pulled the hawks out of duldrums. i think giving him 7 million a yr. is about right. but i am curious to wonder why no other teams are beating his door down.

[coachx]

Charlie V. just got 5 years and $40 mill and he is allergic to playing defense.

I can see why Marvin is asking for that. It would be great if we get him for a little less but I do not see $ 8 mill a year as an over payment given how important the SF position is in the eastern conference. All the good teams in the East have a very good SF that some one has to defend and Marvin will defend them better then anyone on our roster (and much better the Charlie V.). Marvin does that while also giving you solid offensive production and already has good chemistry with the team.

These are the SFs that need defending this year in the East alone:

Cavs - James

Magic - Carter / Lewis

Heat - Beasley

Pistons - Prince

Wizards - Butler

Pacers - Granger

Bulls - Deng / Salmons

Bobcats - G. Wallace

76ers - Iggy / T. Young

Every night in the East is a war at the SF position................Ya, I'd say Marvin is worth $8 mill. I don' t want to have to depend on J. Crawford to guard SGs and JJ to guard bigger SFs.

[Admin]

http://sports.espn.g...s?playerId=2797

How does somebody that has shot the 3 ball well 2 months of a 4 year career a deadly 3pt shooter? Sorry, but that's just incorrect. You take way his 3pt shooting for the month of November and his 3pt shooting isn't all that great.

Reading is fundamental ... didn't say he was deadly. And I know that you don't watch the Hawks games so you probably missed the clutch 3's that the hit in big moments of games this year. Marvin is not a guy that can be left open from 3 and that makes him dangerous.

Doesn't have the determination to do anything? Like leading the team in FT attempts per FG attempt or going from an awful 3pt shooter to become a dangerous 3pt shooter that can knock them down in the clutch in only one offseason?

[Admin]

Not even close. He is replaceable production. It's laughable that a 13/5 player could get so much.

Uhhh 13 and 5? Marvin averaged 14 and 6 last year. As the 4th option. Josh Smith averaged 15.5 and 7 as the 2nd/3rd option and yet I'm sure you think he's worth 10 million right? So what is it that makes him worth it, is it the extra 1.5 points, the extra rebound, or extra block that he averages? And all while playing a position that makes scoring, rebounding, and blocking shots easier. Yeah and Marvin's not worth 8 million. Your opinion on that is laughable.

[Admin]

I'd love to see Marvin receive double teams for a while with his clumsy offensive game. People would realize that he doesn't have the game to be a top option every night. Knowing that defenses don't really give two shyts about him is what allows him to even be as productive as he is.

Sorry but I think you're thinking about Josh Smith, whom defenses sag off about 10 feet on. But you wouldn't know that since you don't watch the games. Marvin is never left open like that.

[Diesel]

i dont think marvin is a bad player, man the way some of you all talk its as if he was a bottom of the barrell bench player, their were times last year when he pulled the hawks out of duldrums. i think giving him 7 million a yr. is about right. but i am curious to wonder why no other teams are beating his door down.

I love it when i can reply and answer a question at the same time.

Here's your answer:

Marvin is not good enough to pay 8 Million dollars. Some will say because he's RFA... which is BS (considering our ownership). Marvin right now is in a position that Smoove was in last year. Smoove got offers. Hell, even Chillz got SNT offers. However, Marvin will get none because he's a Sf who is not great. This means that after we sign Marvin, he will not be tradable. People talk about Marvin constantly improving... THATS A LIE. Marvin has not constantly improved his total game.. last year, his scoring, rebounds, and FTAs were down. Those are impact stats. Last year, we were a better team without Marvin. That's a statistical fact. I'm not saying that we shouldn't sign him. What I am saying is that we shouldn't sign him to a 5 year deal. It will kill this franchise. We should sign him to a 1 year deal and make him earn 8 per. He's not that good... and with his recent injury, I don't feel it's a good move to give him a big deal.

[Diesel]

Charlie V. just got 5 years and $40 mill and he is allergic to playing defense.

Correction, Charlie V. just got 5 years 35 Million.

That accounts for his defense. PLUS he's much better than Marvin on Offense.

There went your argument.

Ariza just got 5 years 33 Million.

And he's 2 times better than Marvin on Defense.

Marvin has not earned 8 per year if these guys are only clocking 7.

[MaceCase]

Charlie V. just got 5 years and $40 mill and he is allergic to playing defense.

I can see why Marvin is asking for that. It would be great if we get him for a little less but I do not see $ 8 mill a year as an over payment given how important the SF position is in the eastern conference. All the good teams in the East have a very good SF that some one has to defend and Marvin will defend them better then anyone on our roster (and much better the Charlie V.). Marvin does that while also giving you solid offensive production and already has good chemistry with the team.

These are the SFs that need defending this year in the East alone:

Cavs - James

Magic - Carter / Lewis

Heat - Beasley

Pistons - Prince

Wizards - Butler

Pacers - Granger

Bulls - Deng / Salmons

Bobcats - G. Wallace

76ers - Iggy / T. Young

Every night in the East is a war at the SF position................Ya, I'd say Marvin is worth $8 mill. I don' t want to have to depend on J. Crawford to guard SGs and JJ to guard bigger SFs.

You can also throw team nemesis Paul Pierce in there along with Knick up and comers Wilson Chandler and Danilo Galinari. Joe may be 6'7" but his height and weight are pedestrian against all these SFs. Beyond that you want to keep Joe as fresh as possible and as far away from foul trouble considering his importance on offense. It's amazing the lengths people will go to discount Marv's defense and claim it to be some made up fantasy by us when even the national media notices it.

[Plainview1981]

Reading is fundamental ... didn't say he was deadly. And I know that you don't watch the Hawks games so you probably missed the clutch 3's that the hit in big moments of games this year. Marvin is not a guy that can be left open from 3 and that makes him dangerous.

I remember that he hit a couple early in the season. So far in his 4 year NBA career he has shot the 3ball well a total of about 2 months. I need to see a little more than that to be convinced.

[Peoriabird]

It's amazing the lengths Diesel will go to discount Marv's defense and claim it to be some made up fantasy by us when even the national media notices it.

Corrected

[Plainview1981]

Uhhh 13 and 5? Marvin averaged 14 and 6 last year. As the 4th option. Josh Smith averaged 15.5 and 7 as the 2nd/3rd option and yet I'm sure you think he's worth 10 million right? So what is it that makes him worth it, is it the extra 1.5 points, the extra rebound, or extra block that he averages? And all while playing a position that makes scoring, rebounding, and blocking shots easier. Yeah and Marvin's not worth 8 million. Your opinion on that is laughable.

And why is he only a 4th option? if he is so great, why is he only a 4th option on a team that only averages 98PPG? Because his game is clumsy and is mostly only good at scoring when nobody is paying him any attention. Marvin only averages .6 blocks per game. His shot blocking average isn't all that much better than Flip's. Even less better given the 12MPG gap between the two. Nobody ever said Josh was worth 10. But just because he got 10 doesn't mean you keep on overpaying players.

Is there any other team that is even after Marvin Williams?

[Plainview1981]

Sorry but I think you're thinking about Josh Smith, whom defenses sag off about 10 feet on. But you wouldn't know that since you don't watch the games. Marvin is never left open like that.

I'm not talking about leaving him wide open. Not very often is a team going to collapse on Marvin Williams. Why would they? His off the dribble game outside of jumpshooting isn't very polished.

[Johnnybravo4]

I'd rather give Lamar Odom his 8 mill per.

[Plainview1981]

I love it when i can reply and answer a question at the same time.

Here's your answer:

Marvin is not good enough to pay 8 Million dollars. Some will say because he's RFA... which is BS (considering our ownership). Marvin right now is in a position that Smoove was in last year. Smoove got offers. Hell, even Chillz got SNT offers. However, Marvin will get none because he's a Sf who is not great. This means that after we sign Marvin, he will not be tradable. People talk about Marvin constantly improving... THATS A LIE. Marvin has not constantly improved his total game.. last year, his scoring, rebounds, and FTAs were down. Those are impact stats. Last year, we were a better team without Marvin. That's a statistical fact. I'm not saying that we shouldn't sign him. What I am saying is that we shouldn't sign him to a 5 year deal. It will kill this franchise. We should sign him to a 1 year deal and make him earn 8 per. He's not that good... and with his recent injury, I don't feel it's a good move to give him a big deal.

The idea that he should get a big deal because Josh got one is laughable. It doesn't matter if you think Josh is worth it or not. If you figure Josh isn't worth it, why would you want to make the mistake of overpaying another player?