Marvin has done nothing to earn 8 Million per.

[Diesel]

The 8 million dollar question is why people waste the precious energy in their fingers trying to prove to Diesel that Marvin is a good player. It's obvious by his misguided and inane statements that there is no bringing him back from the dark side.

EasyRock... While you're busy attacking me and obviously the others who are in agreement with what I have said about Marvin not earning 8 million per...

why don't you at least try to validate Marvin's 8 million per. Share with the Squawk why you believe Marvin is worth 8 million per.

Let me tell you now...

Your pointless attacks on me only further prove that you didn't chime in to attempt to answer the question. Your post here is just another episode of Cowardice to those who support Marvin for no rhyme or reason.

Seriously, if we had 8 million dollars and Marvin was not a Hawk and never had been a Hawk, would you want to add him to this team or would you seek something else? You guys who cower at the thought of trying to explain wanting to give Marvin this much money should understand that right now, Marvin is not under contract and we don't owe him anything. So us giving him 8 million because a question of has he earned it over his past 4 years. Over the past four years, if you count the number of trades that I have proposed for Marvin, multiply it by 1000 and you have the number of excuses we have heard for him.

So what will it be EasyRoc? Will you continue to cower in the corner like I just slapped your mama and kicked your daddy into the street or will you man up and give some semblance of an argument for why Marvin has earned 8 million dollars.

[RedDawg#8]

14 pts and 6 rebs, for a non All-Star small forward playing on a playoff team is above the the league average.

How is Smith so much more loved when he averaged 15.6 and 7.2.

So Smith is worth his contract, ( at 1.5 more points, and 1 more rebound per game while playing 1 more minute a game) but marvin isnt worth 2 million less.

I really dont understand the evaluation of our players worths around here Diesel. You rather pay Smith his money to dribble up the court, turn it over, get easy fast break dunks, shoot 58% from the free throw line, and avg 15.6 and 7.2 THAN Pay Marv 8 mil to take 220 FEWER attempts (in 8 fewer games), and only avg 1.5 less points, 1 less rebound, 190 FEWER turnovers (Marv avg the FEWEST turnovers of any of our starters btw)

I think we need to look at the bigger picture here. For a guy who was the 5th scoring option behind Bibby, Joe, Smith, AND Flip. to put up those numbers, that may not blow you away, but it is very VERY good compared to other non All-Star SF's. we need to get off his back and appreciate that. So he is not aggresive, he still averages well for his position. Everybody on the team cant average 20 pts a game.

So please Diesel, why arent you bashing Smoove, because according to your judgement, he is GROSSLY Overpayed

[HAWKSFAN89]

yo lets just throw randy morris at SF man we would dominate

[EazyRoc]

EasyRock... While you're busy attacking me and obviously the others who are in agreement with what I have said about Marvin not earning 8 million per...

why don't you at least try to validate Marvin's 8 million per. Share with the Squawk why you believe Marvin is worth 8 million per.

Let me tell you now...

Your pointless attacks on me only further prove that you didn't chime in to attempt to answer the question. Your post here is just another episode of Cowardice to those who support Marvin for no rhyme or reason.

Seriously, if we had 8 million dollars and Marvin was not a Hawk and never had been a Hawk, would you want to add him to this team or would you seek something else? You guys who cower at the thought of trying to explain wanting to give Marvin this much money should understand that right now, Marvin is not under contract and we don't owe him anything. So us giving him 8 million because a question of has he earned it over his past 4 years. Over the past four years, if you count the number of trades that I have proposed for Marvin, multiply it by 1000 and you have the number of excuses we have heard for him.

So what will it be EasyRoc? Will you continue to cower in the corner like I just slapped your mama and kicked your daddy into the street or will you man up and give some semblance of an argument for why Marvin has earned 8 million dollars.

Diesel. I have been through this before with you. I'm sure just about every member here has tried to prove to you Marvin's worth. It's already apparent that you don't listen to logic and that your mind is already made up. It would be illogical for me to waste energy trying to prove to you something that you've already made your mind up on. Also, cowardice and internet don't go together well. What do I have to be afraid of ? You giving me a bunch of BS reasons why you don't like Marvin ? Like I said, why should I waste my energy on someone who's already set in their (albeit retarded) ways ?

P.S. To answer the question that I've bolded - Yes, I would. That's the option I voted for in the poll, as well. Even now Marvin is worth about 8 million, not to mention that he's been improving every year and hasn't reached his prime yet.

Edited July 15, 2009 by EazyRoc

[RedDawg#8]

I get it now, this isnt about his talent, or game or chemistry. This is about where he was drafted. It makes sense now.

Diesel, you are right. Marvin will NEVER live up to the 2nd pick of the 2005 Draft. We cant take that back though

Chris Paul will never be a hawk

Deron Williams will NEVER be a hawk.

BK messed up. YES, we all know this, but Marvin isnt to blame. He didnt draft himself with that pick.

Its 5 years later. Marvin has not become an All-Star, but he HAS become a solid NBA SF. and he HAS shown the ability to become a go to guy WHEN HE IS NEEDED.

Marvin has a game that is so smooth that you dont realize the 14 and 6 he puts up nightly. He is so smart on the court that you dont appreciate him letting the Crowd favorites (Joe and Josh) get theirs while he sits back a chips in here and there. I know it annoys you that he doesnt light it up every night, but you have to let it go. Gortat just got the MLE for playing 11 mpg and avging 3 and 3 in the playoffs. so you bet your azz Marvin is worth every bit of 8 mil per.

[Diesel]

14 pts and 6 rebs, for a non All-Star small forward playing on a playoff team is above the the league average.

How is Smith so much more loved when he averaged 15.6 and 7.2.

So Smith is worth his contract, ( at 1.5 more points, and 1 more rebound per game while playing 1 more minute a game) but marvin isnt worth 2 million less.

I really dont understand the evaluation of our players worths around here Diesel. You rather pay Smith his money to dribble up the court, turn it over, get easy fast break dunks, shoot 58% from the free throw line, and avg 15.6 and 7.2 THAN Pay Marv 8 mil to take 220 FEWER attempts (in 8 fewer games), and only avg 1.5 less points, 1 less rebound, 190 FEWER turnovers (Marv avg the FEWEST turnovers of any of our starters btw)

I think we need to look at the bigger picture here. For a guy who was the 5th scoring option behind Bibby, Joe, Smith, AND Flip. to put up those numbers, that may not blow you away, but it is very VERY good compared to other non All-Star SF's. we need to get off his back and appreciate that. So he is not aggresive, he still averages well for his position. Everybody on the team cant average 20 pts a game.

So please Diesel, why arent you bashing Smoove, because according to your judgement, he is GROSSLY Overpayed

well, to be honest, Smoove makes an impact in the game. He comes in and the game changes. His defense is real. He blocks shots and changes the game and has done that for the four years that preceded his contract. Moreover, there were teams that actually wanted Smoove at his price. Remember, we matched on Smoove. I say that seeing that we will have to use the MLE on another player anyway, let's let the league decide Marvin's value just like we did with Smoove. I don't think that there would be many teams trying to put together 8 million dollars per for Marvin. We are jumping the gun. Give Marvin a 1 year deal at 7.355 and let him earn his contract.

[Diesel]

I get it now, this isnt about his talent, or game or chemistry. This is about where he was drafted. It makes sense now.

Diesel, you are right. Marvin will NEVER live up to the 2nd pick of the 2005 Draft. We cant take that back though

Chris Paul will never be a hawk

Deron Williams will NEVER be a hawk.

BK messed up. YES, we all know this, but Marvin isnt to blame. He didnt draft himself with that pick.

Its 5 years later. Marvin has not become an All-Star, but he HAS become a solid NBA SF. and he HAS shown the ability to become a go to guy WHEN HE IS NEEDED.

Marvin has a game that is so smooth that you dont realize the 14 and 6 he puts up nightly. He is so smart on the court that you dont appreciate him letting the Crowd favorites (Joe and Josh) get theirs while he sits back a chips in here and there. I know it annoys you that he doesnt light it up every night, but you have to let it go. Gortat just got the MLE for playing 11 mpg and avging 3 and 3 in the playoffs. so you bet your azz Marvin is worth every bit of 8 mil per.

OK.. so BK messed up. I agree and we can't go back.. I agree with that too. However, we don't have to live out that mistake for the next 5 years either.

If Marvin was picked about 7th which is probably a better spot for him then there's no way we'd be sitting here talking about 40 Million.

Villanueva signed 5 years 35 Million dollars and that was fair for him. However, he's a better offensive player than Marvin and about similar on defense.

Ariza signed a 5 year 33 Million dollar deal. Ariza is not as good an offensive player but twice the defensive player.

I won't talk about Artest.

Anthony Parker just signed a 2 year 6 Million dollar deal.

I don't think Marvin is better than any of the guys mentioned. Maybe Parker because of Age.

but he certainly doesn't deserve to be making 8 million per over the next 5. It's a joke.

[RedDawg#8]

How much more of a difference tho, Smith does alot of great things, but alot of boneheaded things as well. And just because the 76ers were willing to overspend on him (just like they did Brand) doesnt mean much. 8 mil isnt as much as you re making it seem.

Parker aint all that, and hes a backup swingman, not a starting SF/PF. Villanueva int as good as Marv, but he was asked to play a bigger roleon a sucky team. Dude is a soft 6-11 SF/PF, he gets little respect to me. and Yes Artest and Ariza who some wanted instead of Marv, even Battier are all older and put up lower stats than Marv did. But because they are vets with name recognition, they are more liked to our fans. We have a good thing going with Marv here. He shoots better tha Ariza, is more athletic than Artest and Battier combined and bigger as well. As Atlanta sports fans, we have to learn to appreciate the assests we have and not get over come with the love of other teams players who do not even perform at the same level as ours just because the world likes them more.

I would love to see Marv go one on with those guys you listed, he'd run around Charlie V, Jump over Artest and Battier. the only person that would give him a good fight is Ariza, they are very similar styled players.

Edited July 15, 2009 by RedDawg#8

[Diesel]

Well it looks like your poll is not going your way so I'd say that the people have disagreed D. The Hawks have reportedly offered him 37.5 so they clearly think he's worth more than 35 as well. Personally I'd love to pay him 7 million and as the 4th option on the Hawks that's about all that he should get but if he was given a bigger role in the offense then I'd gladly pay him 8 million and he'd quickly prove to you that he was worth it.

We both know that there are other factors as to the results of the poll. I'm just glad to see that there were many who agreed with me that Marvin hasn't done anything to earn 8 per over 5 years. I wouldn't have a problem with 7 per over 3 or maybe something simlar to what Ariza is getting. I just think it would be a mistake... a Speedy Claxton type mistake to give Marvin 8 per over 5 years. At 8 per.. it's going to be hard to trade him because the position is so easy to fill with a dime a dozen Sf ( at much cheaper). 8+ Million dollar Sfs make impacts and carry teams. Butler is a team leader. Granger is a team leader. Turk was a team leader. Lewis was a team leader. Nobody here can name a 4th option that's making 8+ Million. Even when PTL had all those superstars and contract money flowed like a river... their 4th option (Wallace) was not making 8+ Million per.

[MaceCase]

We both know that there are other factors as to the results of the poll. I'm just glad to see that there were many who agreed with me that Marvin hasn't done anything to earn 8 per over 5 years. I wouldn't have a problem with 7 per over 3 or maybe something simlar to what Ariza is getting. I just think it would be a mistake... a Speedy Claxton type mistake to give Marvin 8 per over 5 years. At 8 per.. it's going to be hard to trade him because the position is so easy to fill with a dime a dozen Sf ( at much cheaper). 8+ Million dollar Sfs make impacts and carry teams. Butler is a team leader. Granger is a team leader. Turk was a team leader. Lewis was a team leader. Nobody here can name a 4th option that's making 8+ Million. Even when PTL had all those superstars and contract money flowed like a river... their 4th option (Wallace) was not making 8+ Million per.

Tayshawn

Prince

[Diesel]

How much more of a difference tho, Smith does alot of great things, but alot of boneheaded things as well. And just because the 76ers were willing to overspend on him (just like they did Brand) doesnt mean much. 8 mil isnt as much as you re making it seem.

Parker aint all that, and hes a backup swingman, not a starting SF/PF. Villanueva int as good as Marv, but he was asked to play a bigger roleon a sucky team. Dude is a soft 6-11 SF/PF, he gets little respect to me. and Yes Artest and Ariza who some wanted instead of Marv, even Battier are all older and put up lower stats than Marv did. But because they are vets with name recognition, they are more liked to our fans. We have a good thing going with Marv here. He shoots better tha Ariza, is more athletic than Artest and Battier combined and bigger as well. As Atlanta sports fans, we have to learn to appreciate the assests we have and not get over come with the love of other teams players who do not even perform at the same level as ours just because the world likes them more.

I would love to see Marv go one on with those guys you listed, he'd run around Charlie V, Jump over Artest and Battier. the only person that would give him a good fight is Ariza, they are very similar styled players.

Charlie V is a legit 6'10. He plays offense like Lamar Odom... meaning that he can do it all. His defense is suspect and he got 5 years 35 Million... which is fair.

Last year, Charlie V = 16.2 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 1.8 apg, 45% FG% and 34.5% from 3.

You say you'd love to see them play...

Last year, they did play. He bested Marvin in 1/2 the minutes that marvin played.

I don't understand the age argument... but Ariza is Marvin's age. Ariza is a much better defender, Marvin is the better offensive player. Still, Ariza gets paid less than 7 per. Marvin is not worth 8 per.

[Diesel]

Tayshawn

Prince

Not so quick...

Prince is a 3rd option by ppg and by FGA per game...

still.

To say Prince kinda proves my argument. Prince was thought to be a guy who would only improve when they signed him to his deal. A few years later now and Prince is the same guy. Fortunately, Prince plays good defense. However, he's not worth the money. ASK any piston fan.

[Wurider05]

Something is really strange with Diesel's hatred for Marvin. This kid just can't do anything right according to Diesel. I think that maybe Diesel got a loan to open a Chris Paul memorabilia store near Philips arena and when we didn't draft him he still had to repay the loan with interest!!! Or maybe Marvin stole his girlfriend or maybe BK promised Diesel he was going to draft him with the 2nd pick. whatever it is it is getting old and tiresome. Marvin is a Hawk and why can't you just be happy that he is producing and helping us win. You are either with us or not dude!!

[MaceCase]

Not so quick...

Prince is a 3rd option by ppg and by FGA per game...

still.

To say Prince kinda proves my argument. Prince was thought to be a guy who would only improve when they signed him to his deal. A few years later now and Prince is the same guy. Fortunately, Prince plays good defense. However, he's not worth the money. ASK any piston fan.

Prince also has lesser talent to Marvin and they passed up Carmelo Anthony because of him. Did you see Piston fans b****ing over that when they won a ring with him and got to all those conference finals? No, but you will because Marvin is not Chris Paul.

[Diesel]

Prince also has lesser talent to Marvin and they passed up Carmelo Anthony because of him. Did you see Piston fans b****ing over that when they won a ring with him and got to all those conference finals? No, but you will because Marvin is not Chris Paul.

Uhm? Prince is a better defender than Marvin.

Prince is a better long range shooter than Marvin.

Prince is a better passer than Marvin.

IN what world is Marvin a better talent than Prince? Are you talking about Singing? I would guess that Prince even sings better than Marvin.

All that and Prince is still overpaid.

BTW. The Pistons didn't pass up Mello because of Prince. They passed up Melo in order to get a 7'1" frontline scorer.

[exodus]

Charlie V is so valuable that the Bucks didn't even offer him the QO.

I wonder how long Diesels tantrum will last. It has only been going on 4 years.

Edited July 15, 2009 by exodus

[MaceCase]

Uhm? Prince is a better defender than Marvin.

Prince is a better long range shooter than Marvin.

Prince is a better passer than Marvin.

IN what world is Marvin a better talent than Prince? Are you talking about Singing? I would guess that Prince even sings better than Marvin.

All that and Prince is still overpaid.

BTW. The Pistons didn't pass up Mello because of Prince. They passed up Melo in order to get a 7'1" frontline scorer.

Try again, they passed on Mello because Dumars felt MORE than confident that Tayshawn would hold down the SF position. Now I thank you for pointing out that Prnce was the 3rd option last year I didn't even know that. Now compare what he put up as the 3rd option to Marvin the 4th option 7 years his junior.

[midtownhawk]

They passed on anthony because they didnt want to upset the team they had there by bringing in a player that messed with what they had...they never had any intention of playing him but didnt get any offers for the pick that interested them...i would be stunned to hear that any pistons fan thought prince was overpaid he has been the glue that has held that team together...hes one of the top 4 or 5 perimeter defenders in the NBA and doesnt turn the ball over and scores high percentage baskets...on the topic of marvin i think he is absolutely worth 8 million per as a player who is constantly improving and is our most coachable player...like prince he takes care of the ball...he gets to the line and shoots a good percentage, has added an outside jumper and is still very young...we drafted him because of the player he could become so why when he is improving every year would we let him go and have someone else profit from the time we have spent developing him?? i dont know if he is every going to be an all star but if he continues to improve he can be a lock down starter for years to come.

[thefloydian]

EasyRock... While you're busy attacking me and obviously the others who are in agreement with what I have said about Marvin not earning 8 million per...

why don't you at least try to validate Marvin's 8 million per. Share with the Squawk why you believe Marvin is worth 8 million per.

Let me tell you now...

Your pointless attacks on me only further prove that you didn't chime in to attempt to answer the question. Your post here is just another episode of Cowardice to those who support Marvin for no rhyme or reason.

Seriously, if we had 8 million dollars and Marvin was not a Hawk and never had been a Hawk, would you want to add him to this team or would you seek something else? You guys who cower at the thought of trying to explain wanting to give Marvin this much money should understand that right now, Marvin is not under contract and we don't owe him anything. So us giving him 8 million because a question of has he earned it over his past 4 years. Over the past four years, if you count the number of trades that I have proposed for Marvin, multiply it by 1000 and you have the number of excuses we have heard for him.

So what will it be EasyRoc? Will you continue to cower in the corner like I just slapped your mama and kicked your daddy into the street or will you man up and give some semblance of an argument for why Marvin has earned 8 million dollars.

I don't think Marvin is worth 8 mil a year, but you act like there's some formula used to determine a player's worth. What are they supposed to say other than they think he's worth 8 million? All you're saying is that he isn't. Where's your proof?

[thefloydian]

I won't talk about Artest.

That's good because it would make you look dumb.