Can anyone remember a better GM performance than Sund this offseason and if so who/when?

[Guest Walter]

The offseasons in Hawkville that come to mind are the ones where we got Joe Johnson for Diaw and two late 1st rounders, the offseason where we got Smitty and Grant Long for a declining Willis, the offseason where we got Nique for John Drew lol, the offseason we signed Deke and the offseason where we got Mookie for Rumeal. Will Crawford or Joe Smith turn out to be as good as any of them, ahhh no.

No, there wasn't as big of a move EXCHANGING players as in some of those years but there were 5 or 6 major deals wrapped up and done by Sund this year and he had almost nothing to work with and still managed to get Crawford.

Interestingly, this brings up a good point. Babcock knew how to trade for the most part as demonstrated by 4 trades you mention (although Crawford may end up more important than you think and some of these), but did he ever have such a busy, productive, overall good offseason, signing all the players he needed AT A BUDGET PRICE, drafting well,...? No way. The fact that we have a complete roster, 2-deep at every position, in essentially 2 years of Sund GMing when Babcock couldn't get a starting-quality Sf in 6 years after 'Nique shows you that during NO offseason could Babcock be seen as better.

Total, two-deep, at least 4-5 seed team in 2 years verses no starting Sf after 'Nique for 7 years.

There are certainly better off-seasons than Sund's this year, but none of Babcock's equal it in my op.

w

[Guest Walter]

"Danny Ainge had one hell of an off season when he brought in Allen and Garnett which netted then a title."

That was a better offseason, clearly and similarly without much cap save Jefferson.

W

[Final_quest]

How funny is this thread now?

Other than the Crawford trade, which move would we repeat from last year?

[NineOhTheRino]

yeah...hindsight is a b

[coachx]

How funny is this thread now?

Other than the Crawford trade, which move would we repeat from last year?

Ya............in hindsite Collison rather then Teague at pick #19 and Craig Smith instead of Joe Smith for LLE money would have looked better last season. Its hard to nit-pick LLE signings & picks as low as #19.

I'm still high on Teague. We can't forget that Teague is 2 years younger then Collison & was not given the same amount of playing time due to the starting PG being hurt for a signifcant amount of time.

Edited June 7, 2010 by coachx

[Guest Walter]

How funny is this thread now?

Other than the Crawford trade, which move would we repeat from last year?

I'm not sure I understand this response. Even when we got JJ, we drafted MW over CP3 and DW. Moreover, we had no cap space, a 19th pick, 2 prominent FAs that we could lose FOR NOTHING, and had never shown the ability to recruit a quality veteran FA (the type that go to playoff contenders). We accomplished all of that, lost nothing, and made at least a pick with some upside. Part of the reason Woodson got fired was because he was handed a fully 2 deep roster at every position (when was the last time we can say we ever had that?) and still ran a 7 man rotation. Other parts were the failure to utilize Teague, Za Za (enough), and Joe Smith and develop MW.

Despite what we think, MW, ZaZa both have value and trade value and were signed to reasonable contracts at this point in their careers, Joe Smith was a sign this team was a contender for bell-weather veteran FAs, and the pick was a very solid one. All done smoothly, without drama, and without any draft busts or overpaying mistakes. The Hawks haven't had many great off-seasons and it's been a long time since we had one, particularly one with so little capital used.

W

[Final_quest]

That is one perspective W, but I see things a little differently. Crawford was a good move, Zaza resigning was fair, every other move needs a do over.

The two worst moves were resigning Marvin and Bibby for the amounts that we did. They are the two worst contracts on our books for the moment. I'm not convinced our draft pick will amount to anything. Smith and Collins made virtually no impact. For me this is definitely not in the running for greatest offseason of all time, but far from the worst.

[Guest Walter]

That is one perspective W, but I see things a little differently. Crawford was a good move, Zaza resigning was fair, every other move needs a do over.

The two worst moves were resigning Marvin and Bibby for the amounts that we did. They are the two worst contracts on our books for the moment. I'm not convinced our draft pick will amount to anything. Smith and Collins made virtually no impact. For me this is definitely not in the running for greatest offseason of all time, but far from the worst.

The fact that Joe Smith didn't make as much of an impact the year prior has more to do with Woody.

Bibby, probably the least fave of last offseason, is AT LEAST a quality BU, his salary isn't that good or bad, and in today's NBA in his 3rd year he represents some trade value as an expiring contract. In today's NBA a 3 yr deal is the equivalent of a 2-2.5 yr deal.

And remember, we are talking about the Hawks. Maybe some here think that the JJ/MW summer was better despite a #2 pick and $20+ mil in cap space, but I don't and it's a long way back in history to see a better offseason.

W

[tremor]

I agree with Walter here. Team had more depth than ever before under Woodson but he still failed to adjust rotation probably wanting to get the best out of the Hawks in his contract year. No one had expected that Bibby would have fallen off the cliff but he's valuable off the court and still can hit some big shots for us, I just think that, unless Sund gets another starting PG material, Teague has to start and show what he's worth. Marvin was paid reasonably for numbers he put in his contract year and, properly utilized, he can average 14/7 easily.

[macdaddy]

I don't really feel Bibby fell off a cliff. What about his game looked different than the year before? He's still a solid PG but should probably be a backup at this point. His game is still there. Its a long season. Sure he can't guard Deron Williams or Rondo but we don't play those guys every night.

I've never been a Marvin fan but i'm interested to see what a new coach can get from him.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Nobody wanted Joe Smith nor Jason Collins. But the organization and even Woody tried to sell them off as being integral pieces.

Then Woody woke up.

Jason Collins couldn't even go at the beginning of the season, because he was out of shape. And Joe Smith shot just as bad on his midrange jumpers as Josh Smith did. Both guys lived up to exactly what they were . . . veteran minimum guys who no one wanted, because they were garbage players.

The jury is out on Teague, but I didn't like what I saw from him most of the season. He only performed well during garbage time, much like how Salim Stoudamire used to do.

Crawford was great for most of the year. He sold us out like JJ did during the playoffs, but he definitely made his money last year.

Bibby and Marvin couldn't make shots throughout the year. This makes their contracts look real bad now.

Zaza played inconsistently for most of the year as well. He didn't improve one bit last year.

Take away Crawford from Sund's offseason, and the offseason would be a D+ at best. But ironically, it's the Crawford acquisition that is keeping us from being somewhat of a player in free agency, should we let JJ go and renounce his contract. But then again, Crawford was probably the replacement for JJ all along.

[AHF]

Teague played like 5 minutes with the starters this season. How do we distinguish between garbage time and playing with 3 other subs time as far as assessing where he fits in as a playmaker?

[Final_quest]

Second time. I've brought back this thread.  But this was the last time we "locked up" our core.  Here is a summary of the moves.  It lead to the phrase, We Like Our Core But Not In Love With Our Core:
All in all............the addition of 2 quality, proven veterans in Joe Smith and Jamall Crawford, without losing any of our own top 3 free agetnts (Marvin, Bibby, ZaZa) is nothing short of outstanding. The pick of Teague in the late teens of the first round looks like an excellent selection as well.

[Gray Mule]

Walter:  Good to hear from you!  Travis has all of us dreaming of the chance to win it all.  Hawks are now in the upper half of the NBA.  

GO ATL HAWKS !!

[HawkingAwesome]

WHO?

[JayBirdHawk]

11 years, wow

[ATLHawks3]

I was in middle school when this thread was created. Wow.