Cynical Hawks fans need to recognize....

[Diesel]

Our team is pretty good.

Despite obvious flaws in the construction, right now, we're proving that we're hard to beat. Think about it, we have won on the road. We have won after coming from behind. We have won after losing a lead. We have won against Active Bigs. We have won against fast PGs.

All of these things would seem to be things that would beat us on paper, but we're winning with Chemistry.

Chemistry is what those Lenny Wilkens teams had. It wasn't that man for man we were/are better than other teams, it is that we just have so much chemistry that we wear teams down and eventually outclass them. Just like those Wlkens teams, that works for a majority of the teams, but we have to see what we can do against the elite.

So I would say, get your playoff tickets. We should be able to beat under .500 teams. We might be able to beat some guaranteed playoff teams. However, I feel like we're different and better than last year's team. A coach makes a difference. I can only expect that as Drew continues to permeate the Hawks BBIQ, we'll get even better. Last night, I noticed that our guys actually listens during the time out. He instructs and they do. Orignially, I cursed the hire of LD because I wanted AJ.. I say that LD wasn't a bad second choice. I still think AJ would have been as successful.

So... as we move forward, Watch to see how we progress. IF we start beating elite teams like Miami and Boston, then you can look forward to us being elite also.

[txsting]

Our team is pretty good.

Despite obvious flaws in the construction, right now, we're proving that we're hard to beat. Think about it, we have won on the road. We have won after coming from behind. We have won after losing a lead. We have won against Active Bigs. We have won against fast PGs.

All of these things would seem to be things that would beat us on paper, but we're winning with Chemistry.

Chemistry is what those Lenny Wilkens teams had. It wasn't that man for man we were/are better than other teams, it is that we just have so much chemistry that we wear teams down and eventually outclass them. Just like those Wlkens teams, that works for a majority of the teams, but we have to see what we can do against the elite.

So I would say, get your playoff tickets. We should be able to beat under .500 teams. We might be able to beat some guaranteed playoff teams. However, I feel like we're different and better than last year's team. A coach makes a difference. I can only expect that as Drew continues to permeate the Hawks BBIQ, we'll get even better. Last night, I noticed that our guys actually listens during the time out. He instructs and they do. Orignially, I cursed the hire of LD because I wanted AJ.. I say that LD wasn't a bad second choice. I still think AJ would have been as successful.

So... as we move forward, Watch to see how we progress. IF we start beating elite teams like Miami and Boston, then you can look forward to us being elite also.

Not too bad so far, but let's wait till we play somebody. The teams we've beaten are a combined 4-12. Now we get an 0-4 Detroit team coming in. Followed by 1-3 Minn and 1-2 Phoenix. But regardless of who you play, going 3-0 on the road so far is a great early sign. Joe hasn't even played well yet, his shooting % is off and he's turning the ball over much more than usual.

For several years now, we've taken care of business against sub .500 teams, that is not really news. Two metrics really matter: 1) road record, and 2) record against the top teams. Elite teams will be able to meet or top .500 on each of those metrics. The 2009 Hawks weren't quite there. We were 6-6 against Orlando/Cleveland/Boston, getting most of those wins against Boston. 19-22 on the road. Close, almost there, just need to push a little higher, probably to the 57+ win range before we can legitimately hope to make a run.

[Admin]

Yep I agree with you that we're a pretty good team and I'm very much relieved with that being the case since what I saw in the preseason (prior to the Miami game) had me very worried. We certainly appear to be a better team than we were last year and on an individual basis we seem to be better almost to a man compared to last year as well.

For the most part Joe seems to have bought into the system and even though he still goes ISO more than I'd like I can live with it since there will be times that we'll need him to do it but he seems a lot more efficient this year and I'm hoping that will help to keep him fresh come playoff time.

Jamal is still Jamal, but at least he's keeping up with what he provided us last year, which a lot of critics felt was an aberration that he wouldn't duplicate.

Bibby looks like he is playing a little better defense and we're not having to hide him in the corner and have Joe guard the PG all the time. He's also shooting exceptionally well from downtown and as long as he can do that he'll make our offense better.

Teague is absolutely better than what he was last year and while his jumpshot is pretty rough at least he's playing good defense and is able to drive into the paint at will and he's got a good eye for finding the open man.

Marvin has shown flashes of being able to produce quality numbers with excellent efficiency and hopefully that will start to happen on a more consistent basis. If we can just get him to not have those games where he disappears we would be absolutely deadly on offense.

Josh is still taking shots that he shouldn't take and he's probably taking more of them this year than last, but it seems to me like he is having more of an impact on defense this year and he's playing with more maturity. I still think his offensive numbers can be a lot better if he'd focus on scoring in the paint, but I can live with what he's giving us considering everything else he does.

I was curious what Horford's numbers were yesterday so I went and checked them out and he's putting up nearly the same numbers as last year (offensive rebounds are down) in 10 fewer minutes! The number of minutes might have gone up after last nights game (not sure how many he played) but he had a very solid game!

Zaza might be the best backup C in the league and he looks like he is in tremendous physical condition (same with Jason Collins) and if we can get quality backup production from the two of them we'll be able to rest Al and Josh a lot more than we could last year.

And I can't forget LD and the massive upgrade that he is at the head coaching spot!! Not only has he quickly gotten us able to compete with his offense but he's also making in game adjustments and for the most part he's keeping our starters minutes down and getting quality production from the bench players as well.

We still have a lot to work on and that in itself makes me think that if we can continue to improve we might have a realistic shot at advancing past the 2nd round this year.

[Wretch]

It is a JOY to watch these guys play. Some things that keep sticking out in my mind:

• When the double comes, JJ has GOT TO move the ball. None of this 1 on 3 crap. Just move the ball and get it to the open guy, make them pay for cheating because we have guys all over the court that can hit.
• People don't talk about it much, but Smoove is a GREAT passer. In this offense, it's going to make a difference and it's going to be noticed.
• I love seeing Teague on the floor for extended minutes. LD is giving him a chance...a meaningful chance, not just garbage minutes and with a leash on his neck. Succeed or fail, it's the best thing for him.

I thought it would take longer for our guys to pick up the offense, but they seem to be catching on REAL fast. It's pretty simple stuff...move the ball. Don't let the defense get set and then try to force an isolation play over half of the defense. I still don't know about a better record than last year, but I expect a strong playoff showing. If we're able to play this offense this good this fast, we will be really strong come the All-Star break.

...and a quick note, BK wanted to fire Woodson and do this a long time ago.

[hawkman]

I've noticed that we haven't been outcoached yet this season. That is a major difference between this season and the last. I know it seems odd that I say that after a 53 win season, but the BBIQ of the team has skyrocketed. Some posters used to call the Hawks a dumb team, but I can no longer fault the players. There were some plays ran on the fly last night that were absolutely PERFECT in execution. You could see the excitement on the players faces after those well executed plays that resulted in easy scores. These guys believe in what Drew is teaching them and it's paying immediate dividends on the court. These guys have always been fun to watch to me, but this season so far is leaps and bounds above the previous few seasons in the fun department. I'm not really looking at the 4-0 record as much as I'm looking at the quality of play in those wins. Just think, this team hasn't even played a quarter of a season with this new offense. Imagine how much better the execution could be by the All Star break, better yet, the Playoffs. :conversation:

[Wretch]

I've noticed that we haven't been outcoached yet this season. That is a major difference between this season and the last. I know it seems odd that I say that after a 53 win season, but the BBIQ of the team has skyrocketed. Some posters used to call the Hawks a dumb team, but I can no longer fault the players. There were some plays ran on the fly last night that were absolutely PERFECT in execution. You could see the excitement on the players faces after those well executed plays that resulted in easy scores. These guys believe in what Drew is teaching them and it's paying immediate dividends on the court. These guys have always been fun to watch to me, but this season so far is leaps and bounds above the previous few seasons in the fun department. I'm not really looking at the 4-0 record as much as I'm looking at the quality of play in those wins. Just think, this team hasn't even played a quarter of a season with this new offense. Imagine how much better the execution could be by the All Star break, better yet, the Playoffs. :conversation:

...my thoughts exactly.

[exodus]

The Hawks won 53 games last year. You have to be a good team to do that. Given that everyone in the regular rotaion is back besides Joe Smith (who was garbage) it stands to reason that they will be good this year.

The real questions are:

Is this team better than last years team?

Are they good enough to be competitive in the second round?

Only time will tell.

[Diesel]

Not too bad so far, but let's wait till we play somebody. The teams we've beaten are a combined 4-12. Now we get an 0-4 Detroit team coming in. Followed by 1-3 Minn and 1-2 Phoenix. But regardless of who you play, going 3-0 on the road so far is a great early sign. Joe hasn't even played well yet, his shooting % is off and he's turning the ball over much more than usual.

For several years now, we've taken care of business against sub .500 teams, that is not really news. Two metrics really matter: 1) road record, and 2) record against the top teams. Elite teams will be able to meet or top .500 on each of those metrics. The 2009 Hawks weren't quite there. We were 6-6 against Orlando/Cleveland/Boston, getting most of those wins against Boston. 19-22 on the road. Close, almost there, just need to push a little higher, probably to the 57+ win range before we can legitimately hope to make a run.

That works both ways. I agree record means very little right now. What's more important is matchup. A team like Washington should have beaten us. They have a fast, score first PG that should have blown by Bibby and they have bigs that are very active that should have pushed us around like rag dolls. But what happened is that we found a way to overcome those matchups. The same Cleveland team we beat last night beat Boston and lost a tight one to Sac-Town. I will agree elite teams will come, but how much confidence will we have when they do. This is better than a 2-2 start.

[Diesel]

I've noticed that we haven't been outcoached yet this season. That is a major difference between this season and the last. I know it seems odd that I say that after a 53 win season, but the BBIQ of the team has skyrocketed. Some posters used to call the Hawks a dumb team, but I can no longer fault the players. There were some plays ran on the fly last night that were absolutely PERFECT in execution. You could see the excitement on the players faces after those well executed plays that resulted in easy scores. These guys believe in what Drew is teaching them and it's paying immediate dividends on the court. These guys have always been fun to watch to me, but this season so far is leaps and bounds above the previous few seasons in the fun department. I'm not really looking at the 4-0 record as much as I'm looking at the quality of play in those wins. Just think, this team hasn't even played a quarter of a season with this new offense. Imagine how much better the execution could be by the All Star break, better yet, the Playoffs. :conversation:

Just to speak to this... Most of Marvin's scores were opportunity buckets he got by running in transition and finishing or getting fouled. We were actually beating Cleveland back down. That's something teams used to do to us. One other thing is that we had amnesia in a good way. Hickson scored on Smoove and brought the game closer, in the next few seconds, Bibby to Horf on an alley-opp backdoor dunk. Previously, Woody would have called timeout and put extra pressure on us, LD has these guys thinking opportunity. i.e., they score on us, we run back down and score on them. The only time our offense doesn't look good is in the halfcourt set when we go Iso. I figure as we learn more plays out of our sets, we will see less (predictable) ISos.

[macdaddy]

I'm curious if there are still posters who think firing Woody was a mistake. I realize we could go 4-78 and that we haven't played any good teams, but it sure seems obvious that they respond better to LD's approach.

And for a fan, as someone said the other day, i find myself yelling at the TV a lot less the way these guys are playing this year.

[Diesel]

I'm curious if there are still posters who think firing Woody was a mistake. I realize we could go 4-78 and that we haven't played any good teams, but it sure seems obvious that they respond better to LD's approach.

And for a fan, as someone said the other day, i find myself yelling at the TV a lot less the way these guys are playing this year.

Last year, when the Huddle was called, players were looking up, looking at the kiss cam or arguing with Woody's call. Last night, LD was giving instruction to Bibby and JJ and they were listening intently.

Point is, I think Woodrow's time was up because he had lost his team.

[Dexmethylphenidate]

Last year, when the Huddle was called, players were looking up, looking at the kiss cam or arguing with Woody's call. Last night, LD was giving instruction to Bibby and JJ and they were listening intently.

Point is, I think Woodrow's time was up because he had lost his team.

They were probably thinking "this sh*t don't work no mo"

[BusBoyIsBack]

I think people are naturally skeptical of the team success because we haven't exactly had a lot of success in the history of the franchise, and even recently they'v seen the team start off hot. I think one year we started off 6-1.

What people need to focus on is HOW we are getting it done. We are playing TEAM BASKETBALL. We are not relying on extraordinary efforts from Joe Johnson and Jamal Crawford in one on one basketball. Our new style of play makes the team FAR more formidable on the road. We have a coach who shows far more willingness to let a young Jeff Teague go through the growth process and necessary growing pains that come with it, even having the guy in a contested road game as late as 6 minutes to go in the 4th quarter when under the previous coach we were lucky when he didn't get a DNP by his name, and when he did play, he basically never was seen in the 2nd half unless it was a complete blowout

[Atlantaholic]

If we stay healthy this year we are EASILY winning 50+ games. If the bench continues to play the way they have been playing we will be battling with Miami and Orlando all year for the number 1 seed. We have seen the Hawks at their best in spurts this year and it is scary good. Even when we play like crap we still managed to win 3 games on the road. (we only won 19 road games all of last year). Considering these are the first four games running Drew's offense I would guess it is a fair assumption to say that we will probably get better as the season goes on.

At worst we are still last years 53 win team.

[BusBoyIsBack]

If we stay healthy this year we are EASILY winning 50+ games. If the bench continues to play the way they have been playing we will be battling with Miami and Orlando all year for the number 1 seed. We have seen the Hawks at their best in spurts this year and it is scary good. Even when we play like crap we still managed to win 3 games on the road. (we only won 19 road games all of last year). Considering these are the first four games running Drew's offense I would guess it is a fair assumption to say that we will probably get better as the season goes on.

At worst we are still last years 53 win team.

If we stayed healthy this team could win 60 games. Especially if Jeff Teague shows any sort of progression whatsoever, Marvin continues to show hunger and plays as efficient as he has played, Josh Smith continues to show that commitment defensively, etc.

Edited November 3, 2010 by BusBoyIsBack

[Wretch]

I think people are naturally skeptical of the team success because we haven't exactly had a lot of success in the history of the franchise, and even recently they'v seen the team start off hot. I think one year we started off 6-1.

What people need to focus on is HOW we are getting it done. We are playing TEAM BASKETBALL. We are not relying on extraordinary efforts from Joe Johnson and Jamal Crawford in one on one basketball. Our new style of play makes the team FAR more formidable on the road. We have a coach who shows far more willingness to let a young Jeff Teague go through the growth process and necessary growing pains that come with it, even having the guy in a contested road game as late as 6 minutes to go in the 4th quarter when under the previous coach we were lucky when he didn't get a DNP by his name, and when he did play, he basically never was seen in the 2nd half unless it was a complete blowout

THIS is what you do with talent and while it doesn't necessarily show that Drew is a good coach, it most certainly shows the limitations of Mike Woodson. YOU HAVE TO LET THE YOUNG GUYS PLAY. They'll never get it as long as their riding the pine, afraid to take a shot or make a mistake. Not only do they need time on the court, but they need *FREEDOM to shoot*. No, they don't need a green light every possession, but you gotta let them find their rhythm. They need to see what parts of their game need working on.

Which brings me wot JC2. Obviously the guy can score, but this is the right approach to him. Let him sit on the bench and build that hunger to score. But make him realize how precious his moments on the court are so he doesn't go buckwild out there.

[AHF]

I'm curious if there are still posters who think firing Woody was a mistake. I realize we could go 4-78 and that we haven't played any good teams, but it sure seems obvious that they respond better to LD's approach.

And for a fan, as someone said the other day, i find myself yelling at the TV a lot less the way these guys are playing this year.

I think firing Woodson was the absolute right move. Whether they respond better to LD's approach or not, though, remains to be seen. We don't have a meaningful sample size here and won't have a verdict until the playoffs are done.

[JackB1]

I think firing Woodson was the absolute right move. Whether they respond better to LD's approach or not, though, remains to be seen. We don't have a meaningful sample size here and won't have a verdict until the playoffs are done.

Who thought firing Woodson was a mistake? I don't know anyone who thinks this?

[spotatl]

Woodson had to go. THe team quit on him and they needed a new voice. That said- every game so far as been against a team that is going to be playing for ping pong balls at some point this season. Until they play a playoff caliber team I'm going to reserve judgement on whether Drew is an upgrade over Woodson.

[Wretch]

Woodson had to go. THe team quit on him and they needed a new voice. That said- every game so far as been against a team that is going to be playing for ping pong balls at some point this season. Until they play a playoff caliber team I'm going to reserve judgement on whether Drew is an upgrade over Woodson.

We'll beat quality teams - we are the same team that beat quality teams last year. However, quality of opponents aside, it is apparent that LD's offense is LIGHT YEARS ahead of what Woody had them doing. Nobody is standing around watching and everyone is getting a chance to contribute.

Edited November 3, 2010 by Wretch