Joe Johnson: "I just think we don’t understand who should get the ball"

[99PROBL3MS]

Getting to the line isn't part of his dna just like being aggressive isn't part of marvin's. He has the most advanced skillset posting up but refuses to do so. It's much more frustrating than josh's shot selection imo.

I'm assuming drew was woodys "OC", it kind of explains why they still run the same setup when joe is in iso mode. I would atleast trade josh and als place in that particular setup, what do I know.

I agree that he should post up 10xs as much as he does. There isn't a SG in this league that could guard him there. Drew said from the start that his plan was to not rely on Joe so much offensively. I was just pointing out that when he gets enough shots up, we are much more likely to win. Alot of that is on him since this is supposed to be his team. The rest of it falls squarely on Drew for how the gameplan is tailored. I'm not saying go Iso for 40 minutes, but we sould definitely play through him in the post more. Smoove has the ability to post up successfully also but I won't count on seeing too much of that from him either. I really don't have a problem with Horford facing up and staying on the perimeter some because he is not good down in the post. At least not yet. It just seems like as the year has progressed, he has become much more apt to just stand on the perimeter or in the corner as opposed to posting or moving without the ball. Heck, I guess I could say that about the entire team, but it starts with Joe. Whether he likes it or not.

Edited March 24, 2011 by 99PROBL3MS

[MaceCase]

My first request would be to start drawing fouls. He isn't so much less of a physical speciman than guys like Kevin Martin that he can't get at least half the free throw attempts that Martin gets.

Martin is averaging 9.5 FTA/36 this season and 7.8 FTA/36 for his career. Joe is averaging 3.4 FTA/36 this season and 3.2 FTA/36 for his career. It isn't a matter of touches - Martin's career average is 14.3 FGA/36 compared to JJ's 15.0 FGA/36.

This would really enhance his game and would also be a sign of leadership. He is setting a bad example for others on getting to the line right now.

To be fair to Joe and as a guy who has watched more than his fair share of Kevin Martin I feel as if you are discounting how Martin utilizes his slight frame in favor of getting calls and why it's led to his storied injury history. For a ref it's far more dramatic and easier to see a herky jerky bean pole flying off his defender and to the ground than the methodical Joe powering through contact for a floater. The physique of players nowadays has little to nothing to do with how they play, it's all about their style and athleticism. A guy like Lopez should be able to pull down more than 6 rebounds a game for a 7 footer but he rather just box out the paint or tipout the ball in order to allow his teammates to collect the stat instead. A player like Lebron at 6'9" 260 on a team lacking a post presence should be able to at least look comfortable working out of the post but you'd be better off just letting Bibby park at the right block. A player with Josh Smith's physique and athleticism should be the second coming of Rodman or Ben Wallace etc. etc. etc.

Joe is not a high flyer so it's hard to draw calls on his forays to the rim because you are not seeing dramatic dunk attempts or athletic layup attempts being obviously disrupted to get a call. What should not go unnoticed is that on most nights now Joe is the only player operating in the post and he is shooting a career high at and near the rim while also being more vocal with the refs no matter how forced it looks. This has shown me a determination to make the game easier for himself from Joe but style and then reputation play roles in whether you get those calls.

[lethalweapon3]

On if it's because plays aren't being called: "I don't know. It's frustrating to me. You've got to go with the flow.

"I don't know?" How do you NOT know if plays aren't being called?

~lw3

Edited March 24, 2011 by lethalweapon3

[niremetal]

"I don't know?" How do you NOT know if plays aren't being called?

~lw3

The question wasn't whether plays were being called. It was whether plays not being called was the cause of not knowing who was supposed to take the shot. Since most "plays" in the NBA don't require a particular player to take the shot, and since players don't take pot shots at their coaches in the media anyway, I think it was a fair response. Especially since JJ can't read his teammates' minds, and it's clear his teammates don't talk about this stuff.

[Guest]

I agree that he should post up 10xs as much as he does. There isn't a SG in this league that could guard him there. Drew said from the start that his plan was to not rely on Joe so much offensively. I was just pointing out that when he gets enough shots up, we are much more likely to win. Alot of that is on him since this is supposed to be his team. The rest of it falls squarely on Drew for how the gameplan is tailored. I'm not saying go Iso for 40 minutes, but we sould definitely play through him in the post more. Smoove has the ability to post up successfully also but I won't count on seeing too much of that from him either. I really don't have a problem with Horford facing up and staying on the perimeter some because he is not good down in the post. At least not yet. It just seems like as the year has progressed, he has become much more apt to just stand on the perimeter or in the corner as opposed to posting or moving without the ball. Heck, I guess I could say that about the entire team, but it starts with Joe. Whether he likes it or not.

When Joe posts up the smaller SG teams double him and more often than not he does make the correct play but sometimes he is too slow to pass out of the double team which is also a function of his teammates not coming for the ball or making a move to the rim off the double. Teams with smaller SG have also been using a SF to defend him which negates his post-ups.

That said Joe needs more agression in his game.

[frosgrim]

When Joe posts up the smaller SG teams double him and more often than not he does make the correct play but sometimes he is too slow to pass out of the double team which is also a function of his teammates not coming for the ball or making a move to the rim off the double. Teams with smaller SG have also been using a SF to defend him which negates his post-ups.

That said Joe needs more agression in his game.

The whole team needs to get more aggressive.

[AHF]

To be fair to Joe and as a guy who has watched more than his fair share of Kevin Martin I feel as if you are discounting how Martin utilizes his slight frame in favor of getting calls and why it's led to his storied injury history. For a ref it's far more dramatic and easier to see a herky jerky bean pole flying off his defender and to the ground than the methodical Joe powering through contact for a floater. The physique of players nowadays has little to nothing to do with how they play, it's all about their style and athleticism. A guy like Lopez should be able to pull down more than 6 rebounds a game for a 7 footer but he rather just box out the paint or tipout the ball in order to allow his teammates to collect the stat instead. A player like Lebron at 6'9" 260 on a team lacking a post presence should be able to at least look comfortable working out of the post but you'd be better off just letting Bibby park at the right block. A player with Josh Smith's physique and athleticism should be the second coming of Rodman or Ben Wallace etc. etc. etc.

Joe is not a high flyer so it's hard to draw calls on his forays to the rim because you are not seeing dramatic dunk attempts or athletic layup attempts being obviously disrupted to get a call. What should not go unnoticed is that on most nights now Joe is the only player operating in the post and he is shooting a career high at and near the rim while also being more vocal with the refs no matter how forced it looks. This has shown me a determination to make the game easier for himself from Joe but style and then reputation play roles in whether you get those calls.

Let's be fair to Joe and compare him to Mitch Richmond, a perimeter player who was 3 inches shorter and only 10 pounds lighter. He wasn't a dunker or someone who made dramatic and athletic slashes to the basket. Mitch also played in an era where handchecking was legal and it was much hard to draw fouls as a perimeter jumpshooting SG. Nevertheless, he averaged 5.6 FTA/36 for his career and was almost double Joe's FTA/36 to the same point in their careers. Even Steve Smith averaged 6.2 FTA/36 his age 29 season.

Joe works to avoid contact. It does have the advantage of lowering his injury risk profile but it also makes him a less effective player than he could otherwise be.

Edited March 24, 2011 by AHF

[Guest]

Since Joe got his face broken back when he was playing for Phoenix, he avoids contact whenever possible. He is like a QB who has gotten hit one too many times and have happy feet in the pocket.

[TNHawk]

I think Joe got it 100% right. Looked like every guy got tight. No one wanted to be the reason the Hawks blew another one.

This could also be calling out Josh, who continues to take more and more shots. Maybe Joe doesn't like that.

[tonegully]

Like Joe said they have had team meetings. People know their role but get on the court and play out of their role. Thats LDs job to control that crap.

[APE]

This could also be calling out Josh, who continues to take more and more shots. Maybe Joe doesn't like that.

if that's the case then that *ussy needs to say Josh's name, everyone's name who he feels does that and not some subliminal BS. It's his team and it's already too late for him to show any signs of being a leader instead of "flying under then radar, man."

[PlayaPat420]

if that's the case then that *ussy needs to say Josh's name, everyone's name who he feels does that and not some subliminal BS. It's his team and it's already too late for him to show any signs of being a leader instead of "flying under then radar, man."

And what would that accopmlish? Putting anyone's name out in an interview would probably cause more harm than help. ESPECIALLY J.... "Smoove"? We all can see Josh is overly emotional and irractic, so what would putting him on blast in the media do? More than likely make him pout more, withdram from the team even more and be more selfish. He COULD/SHOULD have directly went to him man-to-man which we don't know if it has or hasn't happened but like another poster said, itis the coaches job to discipline and put another player in their place. Joe can't bench or pull anyone from a game.

[NineOhTheRino]

if that's the case then that *ussy needs to say Josh's name, everyone's name who he feels does that and not some subliminal BS. It's his team and it's already too late for him to show any signs of being a leader instead of "flying under then radar, man."

That's not in his DNA. We just have to accept that our franchise player has piss-poor intangibles. With that said I bet fans would have an easier time looking past his lack of intangibles if he was averaging 25 per game. Look he's not playing good ball now! The fact that Joe has only played 1 month of decent basketball magnifies his mental weaknesses.

Edited March 25, 2011 by NineOhTheRino

[AHF]

And what would that accopmlish? Putting anyone's name out in an interview would probably cause more harm than help. ESPECIALLY J.... "Smoove"? We all can see Josh is overly emotional and irractic, so what would putting him on blast in the media do? More than likely make him pout more, withdram from the team even more and be more selfish. He COULD/SHOULD have directly went to him man-to-man which we don't know if it has or hasn't happened but like another poster said, itis the coaches job to discipline and put another player in their place. Joe can't bench or pull anyone from a game.

Whoever is a leader on this should step up and be specific but he should do it behind closed doors.

[MaceCase]

Whoever is a leader on this should step up and be specific but he should do it behind closed doors.

Therin lies the problem, there's been more than a few too many players only meetings this season and I'm sure plenty of gripes have been aired out but there is still a fundamental issue that exists that I doubt can be ignored especially with this tri-captain system, who's team is this? Joe is the highest paid and has the most credentials to his name but is a quiet lead by example type of player which is a problem in itself because not many if any of the other players can function in his role on the court. Josh is the hometown hero, local boy done good, former high flyer that helped trademark the phrase "Highlight Factory" but he is temperamental, wears his heart on his sleeve be it good or bad and is known to be a childish prankster in the locker room. Al is the most pedigreed from an amateur standpoint but least tenured professionally and is the one darling of national media attention on the team with a fiery spirit that wants to wrest control in the locker room but as Amar'e pointed out, "he's not that type of player" to put up overwhelming numbers or excite with highlight plays. Each party has their die hard supporters both from the fan base and the owners so they all feel deserving of being named the man but want little to do with actually putting the team on their back or rocking the boat with their teammates. As an inside observer for 6 years, LD had the chance to end any debate by not only being more than qualified to identify the best candidate but also force them to step up into that leadership role. Instead he copped out, kept the locker room fractured and gave out token titles that unfortunately allows all three players to defer responsibility amongst each and not have the ability to take action. There simply is a power dynamic in that locker room that I believed caved this season more than anything else.

[tonegully]

Blow the team up.

Joe already said they have had meetings and everything goes out the window when the game starts. Shake up this team.

[99PROBL3MS]

Blow the team up.

Joe already said they have had meetings and everything goes out the window when the game starts. Shake up this team.

Joe did mention "shaking things up" a couple times in that interview.

[AHF]

As an inside observer for 6 years, LD had the chance to end any debate by not only being more than qualified to identify the best candidate but also force them to step up into that leadership role. Instead he copped out, kept the locker room fractured and gave out token titles that unfortunately allows all three players to defer responsibility amongst each and not have the ability to take action. There simply is a power dynamic in that locker room that I believed caved this season more than anything else.

Great post. There seems to be a leadership vacuum among the players and with the coach.

[Dexmethylphenidate]

Joe did mention "shaking things up" a couple times in that interview.

Joe need to take some blame in his interview. He's playing like crap for a max player.

[benhillboy]

I've never seen a post this critical of Joe before from so many members. You all are catching on, finally.