Horford speaks

[TheNorthCydeRises]

And this ladies and gentlemen is why athletes give PC bucket answers, for when you tell the truth you get killed for it. The interviewer clearly asked Al what this team needs to get to the next level. He said they need more size. He said certain matchups it's favorable for him to play the 5, but many are not. He also said he does not mind playing the 5 as the interviewers kept insisting that he is a natural 4. I think Nick and Chris said this about 5 times over the course of the interview.

Some how this gets twisted into Al Horford b*tching about playing center. They asked him a question and he answered honestly. You want the truth you can't handle the truth.

I was also encouraged by what he said he needed to work on. Jump shot, taking people off the dribble and being quicker in the post. WTF is wrong with this? This is exactly what he needs to be working on.

Al just give the canned I’m going to give 110%, and I wouldn't want to go to battle with anybody else answer next time. Save yourself some grief.

He's been talking about this all year though. This isn't the first time that he's said this. The Hawks need size, but he needs to play bigger. With the way this team is constructed, we need our most talented players on the floor as much as possible at the positions in which they're most effective.

Like I said in a previous post, Horford played PF more than he played C in the playoffs . . and he was flat out horrible. He was horrible because unlike the C's that play him, the PF's don't give him all of that space for him to shoot his jumper. And his post game wasn't nearly good enough to score against guys his size. I would've never imagined that he'd struggle that much playing PF.

The difference is that when Smith is asked a question about playing the 3 or the 4, Smith just says . . It doesn't matter, I just play. But for Al, it definitely DOES matter.

If he can't play the 5 effectively against the better centers in the league, and has trouble offensively against PFs in the playoffs, what should the Hawks do? I used to think it was a no brainer that Smith should be traded before Horford, But now, I don't know. It was always assumed by me ( and other Hawk fans ) that if Horford played PF more, that he could average close to 20 ppg - 10 rebs. But without a viable post game, his inability to draw fouls and his inability to create his own shot, I doubt that very seriously.

People say JJ isn't a leader and isn't a legit #1 option that can't take us to a title

People say they can't trust Smith because he has a low BBIQ and kills you with his decision making.

So does that mean that we can ( or should ) trust Horford? If so . . . why?

[hawkman]

Well the problem is...

That's what we brought you in here for Horford.

We didn't bring you in because you were graduating from Fla.

We brought you in because we felt that you could be what Shelden Failed to be.

And for a while, you were.

You're a 2 time allstar at the C position.

There are a limited amount of 7 footers in this league.

In the playoffs ,we played you at your preferred position of PF.

Our rotations at the 5 were not the problem in the playoffs. They played with heart.

The problem was that you didn't.

It's like students who go to school all day. Come home and don't study, don't do homework. and go back the next day and say... "Well, if you taught me using a different method.. I'd learn something. I admit, I had my part in this because I didn't study.. but teacher, you should be learning the newest teaching methods so that you can reach me."

That's what I hear in Horford.

His acknowledgement is just a part of the excuse.

Before we give up because we have made predictions, let's try to go out there and really give 110%?

It pains me to see some guys just playing with so much heart (Zaza, Teague) and they never get any credit for being close to Good.. but the guy who is our allstar and 3rd team NBA is half assing?? This is when the game meant something. If Zaza and Teague can find the heart to play hard... and play through the pain, why is Horf looking around saying... we need a better 5?

f*** that!!!

Horf get your *ss out there and play hard!!!

We really don't know what we need until everybody is giving maximum effort.

Joe said it best. we need some blue collar workers. What that really means is that instead of having these primadonas who predict the game and decide if they are going to play hard this time. We need some guys with the attitude that I'm going to do everything I can.

I'd +100 this if I could. The answer to toughness on the inside is already on the roster. Horf is better than both Noah and Boozer(especially with a bad toe). He didn't perform up to his capabilities despite playing the very position he claimed to be most effective at. He flat out didn't get after it out there in the most important games of the season and I can't figure out why. The only excuse I could have accepted for that is/was injury. He was shielded from Howard by Collins and Zaza in the first. Heck, he played PF in the 2nd too and had problems scoring and defending against a hobbled Boozer. He shouldn't have been going against Boozer anyway because I though a Horf/Noah matchup would have went in our favor. Even the analysts were waiting for him to have a break out game versus the Bulls' frontline.

[Jody23]

Well the problem is...

That's what we brought you in here for Horford.

We didn't bring you in because you were graduating from Fla.

We brought you in because we felt that you could be what Shelden Failed to be.

And for a while, you were.

You're a 2 time allstar at the C position.

There are a limited amount of 7 footers in this league.

In the playoffs ,we played you at your preferred position of PF.

Our rotations at the 5 were not the problem in the playoffs. They played with heart.

The problem was that you didn't.

It's like students who go to school all day. Come home and don't study, don't do homework. and go back the next day and say... "Well, if you taught me using a different method.. I'd learn something. I admit, I had my part in this because I didn't study.. but teacher, you should be learning the newest teaching methods so that you can reach me."

That's what I hear in Horford.

His acknowledgement is just a part of the excuse.

Before we give up because we have made predictions, let's try to go out there and really give 110%?

It pains me to see some guys just playing with so much heart (Zaza, Teague) and they never get any credit for being close to Good.. but the guy who is our allstar and 3rd team NBA is half assing?? This is when the game meant something. If Zaza and Teague can find the heart to play hard... and play through the pain, why is Horf looking around saying... we need a better 5?

f*** that!!!

Horf get your *ss out there and play hard!!!

We really don't know what we need until everybody is giving maximum effort.

Joe said it best. we need some blue collar workers. What that really means is that instead of having these primadonas who predict the game and decide if they are going to play hard this time. We need some guys with the attitude that I'm going to do everything I can.

So, let me get this straight...Horford's comments are really an excuse and his play is the only reason this team lost. Moreover, he's the only guy on this team who didn't play with heart? Really???

I guess this is the same as when Joe Johnson publicly said that he needs more help and the team needs better players a couple of years ago. Later, in the series last year versus Orlando, he seemingly gave up and played with no heart and was booed off the floor. Oh, he was double teamed right? Well Kobe, LeBron, Wade, Durant and many other stars get doubled too yet, that doesn't seem stop them from producing does it? By the way, Joes poor performance in that series didn't change the fact that he was absolutely right when said he needed help.

Look, I agree that Horford's got to play better and if he's out there playing with no heart, he should be benched or traded. However, his poor performance wasn't the only reason this team lost. Furthermore, he could play with all the heart and energy in the world. He could even get pumped up for every game by listening to In the Air Tonight (Phil Collins), Stronger (Kanye West), St. Elmo's Fire (John Parr), Eye of The Tiger (Survivor)...all great motivational songs. But, that only gets you so far and it doesn't change the fact that he's right when he says the Hawks need more size and that he's limited in certain situations at the 5.

[Joker]

He's been talking about this all year though. This isn't the first time that he's said this. The Hawks need size, but he needs to play bigger. With the way this team is constructed, we need our most talented players on the floor as much as possible at the positions in which they're most effective.

Like I said in a previous post, Horford played PF more than he played C in the playoffs . . and he was flat out horrible. He was horrible because unlike the C's that play him, the PF's don't give him all of that space for him to shoot his jumper. And his post game wasn't nearly good enough to score against guys his size. I would've never imagined that he'd struggle that much playing PF.

The difference is that when Smith is asked a question about playing the 3 or the 4, Smith just says . . It doesn't matter, I just play. But for Al, it definitely DOES matter.

If he can't play the 5 effectively against the better centers in the league, and has trouble offensively against PFs in the playoffs, what should the Hawks do? I used to think it was a no brainer that Smith should be traded before Horford, But now, I don't know. It was always assumed by me ( and other Hawk fans ) that if Horford played PF more, that he could average close to 20 ppg - 10 rebs. But without a viable post game, his inability to draw fouls and his inability to create his own shot, I doubt that very seriously.

People say JJ isn't a leader and isn't a legit #1 option that can't take us to a title

People say they can't trust Smith because he has a low BBIQ and kills you with his decision making.

So does that mean that we can ( or should ) trust Horford? If so . . . why?

Wrong, he wasn't horrible v. Orlando. He was the 3rd best player outside of Jamal and Joe. V. Chicago he was but that was more because of Chicago than cause of Al no matter the position.

Why would it matter to Smith. He doesn't really care for the most part, he doesn't like to bang and just watching him play, you can tell he wants to be a SF. That's common knowledge, you don't need to hear Smith say it, Smith says the right thing a lot and does the opposite on too many occasions.

I really don't see the offensive problem per say. Howard is tough on ALL front-lines. Chicago is too especially when you are a PnR movement player and there is no movement thanks to the lack of structure or playmakers that Atlanta has. I knew after the first ten games after the trade, a lot of you guys would turn on Al. I even predicted his struggle after 10 games with Hinrich. I seen that the PnR is all but dead and the movement on offense will drop exponentially. I clearly seen that coming after analyzing this team. Just look at cyde post, it's utter chaos. Every sentence can easily be devalued. Easily.

Oh well, this is the times we live in. Where common sense and understanding of the game has dropped beyond belief.

He can average more than 20-10 as a scorer, the issue hasn't changed one bit. He can't create his own shot. He has to be on the move or in the PnR with someone who actually very good at it for him to score. Just off top, Josh, Joe, and Jamal are better scorers and soon Teague. With a PnR PG, ad bit an elite one, he can score a lot more as the PG will be able to create Al's offense at an elite level as Al is an elite movement PnR player i.e an elite PnR PF.

Joe has all but proven he isn't a leader as has he proven he's not a #1. He's the Pau Gasol of guards. Can he be elite, maybe with a superstar but without one he's doesn't stand a chance. Good intangibles.

Josh Smith has a ton of talent. The most talented player on this team and one of the three most talented PF's in the league. With that said, low offensive BBIQ, extremely poor fundamentals, consistency, and decision making bite him in the butt for far too often. He's never going to be a superstar. He's best coming off the bench for a contender or being the star on a scrub team where he can stat-pad while losing a ton of games. Poor intangibles. Versatile. Struggles v. quick SF's and skilled PF's.

Al is what he is. Very good defender. Above average post player. Mechanical post moves. Elite mid range shooter. Elite PnR PF. Very good intangibles. Poor iso player. Struggles to create his own offense. Very good rebounder. Extremely consistent. You get the good and the bad with all three. Decent sized PF, highly undersized center. Struggles v. skilled true centers and dead ball movement.

Joe is a very good player. Josh is a very good player. Al is a very good player. None of them are elite. Joe is very good at almost everything, elite at almost nothing. Yet, he gets better coverage by opponents than Kobe when he doesn't have Kobe abilities. Josh is amazingly talented, no one across the board can do all he can do not named Lebron but what he lacks is damning for him to ever reach that next level. Al is elite at a couple things, none of which do we have the personnel to utilize it outside of his MR jumper.

With that said, all three have a very high impact on the game. It's the reason why we can beat a team with Dwight Howard and the reason why we made it to three straight 2nd round match-ups. Our problem is talent, fit, and size. Talent is the most important and fit and size don't even come close. If we can't get talent, fit and size doesn't matter. We aren't talented enough as it is. We need more talent. Fit would be nice. For Joe, that means getting a superstar so Joe can be a #2. For Al, that means getting a very good to elite PnR PG. For Smith, that means... ... Size, we can use a true center who is starting quality. Not at the expense of Smith, Joe, Jeff, or Al. Even an undersized true center like Okafor would help but not for the guys mention earlier.

On Horford again, his Draw fouls went down from 3.3 to 2.4. Even as a rookie, it was 2.6 and a year later 3.1. It's clear the loss of Bibby mid-season killed Horford stats all across the board. While limited, Bibby knew how to run the offense and ran the PnR effectively at times depending on the opponent and if Bibby was feeling good in terms of creating. His usage rate is ridiculously low but that's understandable because the Hawks have a lot of weapons. Either way, he needs to take that step in terms of drawing more fouls. Clearly that will be hard since his post moves are mechanical which means we will have to create with movement and PG movement and PnR for Al. That's not possible with this personnel. That answers your FTA point.

Edited June 3, 2011 by nbasuperstar40

[Diesel]

So, let me get this straight...Horford's comments are really an excuse and his play is the only reason this team lost. Moreover, he's the only guy on this team who didn't play with heart? Really???

I guess this is the same as when Joe Johnson publicly said that he needs more help and the team needs better players a couple of years ago. Later, in the series last year versus Orlando, he seemingly gave up and played with no heart and was booed off the floor. Oh, he was double teamed right? Well Kobe, LeBron, Wade, Durant and many other stars get doubled too yet, that doesn't seem stop them from producing does it? By the way, Joes poor performance in that series didn't change the fact that he was absolutely right when said he needed help.

Look, I agree that Horford's got to play better and if he's out there playing with no heart, he should be benched or traded. However, his poor performance wasn't the only reason this team lost. Furthermore, he could play with all the heart and energy in the world. He could even get pumped up for every game by listening to In the Air Tonight (Phil Collins), Stronger (Kanye West), St. Elmo's Fire (John Parr), Eye of The Tiger (Survivor)...all great motivational songs. But, that only gets you so far and it doesn't change the fact that he's right when he says the Hawks need more size and that he's limited in certain situations at the 5.

First and foremost...

I didn't say Horford's play was the reason we lost. But think it through. We lost 4-2 to Chicago and lost a pivotal game 5.

Secondly, Joe can say it. Joe hascarried the team.

[Joker]

First and foremost...

I didn't say Horford's play was the reason we lost. But think it through. We lost 4-2 to Chicago and lost a pivotal game 5.

Secondly, Joe can say it. Joe hascarried the team.

What about Chicago is a better team where mostly all their personnel fits like a glove sans Boozer?

I don't think Joe, Jamal, Al, Josh, or Drew lost us that series. Chicago was just better, their game-planning was better than Atlanta due to their personnel being able to take away the Hawks strengths. The Hawks couldn't take away Rose nor could we beat them on the boards. It helps they can give 110% on defense due to Rose being able to carry the load on offense by his lonesome. Chicago is one of the best teams in the NBA. They would give hell to Dallas but Miami was a bad match-up for them as Miami has too many superstars. They will always have issues with a team with one or two superstars and a 3rd superstar or star.

Edited June 3, 2011 by nbasuperstar40

[Jody23]

First and foremost...

I didn't say Horford's play was the reason we lost. But think it through. We lost 4-2 to Chicago and lost a pivotal game 5.

Secondly, Joe can say it. Joe hascarried the team.

I agree Joe can speak his mind. He's the team's best player, without question. However, let's remember, Horford, in his four years, has made two all-star teams and now an all NBA team. In addition, the Hawks had been shut out of the playoffs for a decade until Al came aboard. While I in no way excuse his poor performance in the playoffs, he definitely has earned the right to speak his mind.

[TheTruth]

You know what I think? I love Horf, but he's starting to come across as a whiny little biatch...hate to say it.

If we are ever gonna take the next step, our bigs will HAVE to play bigger.

[mrhonline]

Ummm...am I the only one that listened to the actual interview?

He admitted to offensive struggles in the playoffs. He said he was willing to play both PF and CR. He complimented the efforts of Zaza and Jason Collins at center. He simply said the team needs another big body and that he prefers to play at PF.

[TRUEINTELLECTPLAYA]

Hawks need a Center and they need to move Al to PF and Josh Smith to SF. If that's what makes a person a whiny little b*tch add me to the list. I think Al yearns for playing for championships and he knows like I do that he is not a championship caliber starting Center. If it makes him a whiny little b*tch to want to win championships add me to the list. I guess you should add KG and Duncan to the list of whiny little bytches because neither whom are both taller than Al never won a single championship playing Center, they both were championship PF's though.

Edited June 4, 2011 by TRUEINTELLECTPLAYA

[TheTruth]

My main concern is that whenever I hear about Horford lately, either his dad or himself is trying to force him out of playing Center. On top of that, Al is talking about expanding his range and working on other things instead of focusing on his low post game.

Al is a dang fine player, but he has been playing awfully soft lately for a big man (not just a Center). Get that rectified first and then we can make some headway as a team. Does he need more help around him? No one disputes that. But we wouldn't need nearly as much if he would focus on things such as his largely non-existent low post game.

[TRUEINTELLECTPLAYA]

My main concern is that whenever I hear about Horford lately, either his dad or himself is trying to force him out of playing Center. On top of that, Al is talking about expanding his range and working on other things instead of focusing on his low post game.

Al is a dang fine player, but he has been playing awfully soft lately for a big man (not just a Center). Get that rectified first and then we can make some headway as a team. Does he need more help around him? No one disputes that. But we wouldn't need nearly as much if he would focus on things such as his largely non-existent low post game.

My main concern is that when you put people in a position that they are not built for they compensate to deal with that situation. I think Josh would be in the post more at SF when he notices he has an advantage at that position in the post every night. Al would be in the post if he realized he had an advantage more often. Please, don't give me that little sample of the playoffs with Al at the 4 and say he didn't play up to your standards, because half of the people saying that are the same people saying keep Kirk in the starting lineup because Teague did not prove enough to you. Give me a full year of Al at C, Josh at SF, Teague starting at PG, and get a real starting C.

[Diesel]

Hawks need a Center and they need to move Al to PF and Josh Smith to SF. If that's what makes a person a whiny little b*tch add me to the list. I think Al yearns for playing for championships and he knows like I do that he is not a championship caliber starting Center. If it makes him a whiny little b*tch to want to win championships add me to the list. I guess you should add KG and Duncan to the list of whiny little bytches because neither whom are both taller than Al never won a single championship playing Center, they both were championship PF's though.

We know the needs. However, the actual taking of responsibility... that was an after thought. It was an " O yeah, I didn't do all I could" kind of deal.

If Horf had realized that he was needed and he didn't show up, he would have come in the interview and not said anything about us needing another big. With the bigs we have, we played well. Only Horf didn't show up!

I don't mean in just scoring. We lose when we get outrebounded... Noah and Gibson made Horf look like the whiny little girl he was in the interview.

[Supporter]

So what if Al says that he prefers the PF position. BIG DEAL! There are worse things to worry about than our 6'10 center wanting a bigger body out there so that he can play PF.

[Diesel]

So what if Al says that he prefers the PF position. BIG DEAL! There are worse things to worry about than our 6'10 center wanting a bigger body out there so that he can play PF.

If Al wants to be a pF cool. My thing is just play the damn position and shut up. Stop coming up with a wishlist of things you need to be successful. Focus on what will make you the best PF.

When did Karl Malone ever complain about being the mailman. He got the nickname mailman because regardless of the circumstance, he would always deliver.

I thought Horf was like that.

However, Horf is starting to become the dude at the worksite who can troubleshoot why he didn't do so well and what he will need to have his best game.

Horf = the troubleshooter.

[TRUEINTELLECTPLAYA]

I don't get it. I can recall the Hawks boards claiming noone on the team would ever step up and say anything now we have a guy or a couple at times that will step up and say some things and now people complain everytime they speak. I think we are seeing this team mature. The next step is to be able to tell each other to there faces when they are not doing what needs to be done

[Joker]

If Al wants to be a pF cool. My thing is just play the damn position and shut up. Stop coming up with a wishlist of things you need to be successful. Focus on what will make you the best PF.

When did Karl Malone ever complain about being the mailman. He got the nickname mailman because regardless of the circumstance, he would always deliver.

I thought Horf was like that.

However, Horf is starting to become the dude at the worksite who can troubleshoot why he didn't do so well and what he will need to have his best game.

Horf = the troubleshooter.

Malone had 7'4 Mark Eaton who was a defensive menace given 80's style rules and talent as well as the great John Stockton. Very good PG who was an elite PnR PG. That helps a lot. Much more than playing a Jason 0-1 rpg Collins or Josh I am on the perimeter every of FGA Smith. Personnel made sense. Atlanta one makes ZERO sense. But they are talented, far more than a young Utah team.

[Mdizzle5]

Al has been half assing throughout most of the 2nd half of the season, IMO... it goes beyond his playoff performance

[Diesel]

Malone had 7'4 Mark Eaton who was a defensive menace given 80's style rules and talent as well as the great John Stockton. Very good PG who was an elite PnR PG. That helps a lot. Much more than playing a Jason 0-1 rpg Collins or Josh I am on the perimeter every of FGA Smith. Personnel made sense. Atlanta one makes ZERO sense. But they are talented, far more than a young Utah team.

You can all out Jason Collins and Zaza all you want. The truth is... when it mattered, they showed up and did their job. They played with fire and intensity.

I think part of the reason we lost to Orlando game 5 was because Zaza was suspended.

[High5]

You can all out Jason Collins and Zaza all you want. The truth is... when it mattered, they showed up and did their job. They played with fire and intensity.

I think part of the reason we lost to Orlando game 5 was because Zaza was suspended.

Collins exceeded our expectations, but that's because our expectations are as low as it gets for a NBA player. He's the only player in NBA history to be applauded after putting up 1/0 against a guy that put up 46/19. We're never going to get far with Collins or Zaza as our starting centers.