We need to get rid of Josh

[JackB1]

Josh isn't why we lost this one, but I haven't seen any difference in his game yet this year. He still takes too many jumpers and still doesn't play inside enough. So much for the "new" Josh.

[Supporter]

I agree it is Josh who has to transform. I also believe it is the team's and the franchise's responsibility to help him get there, especially knowing, despite all the protests, he is not going anywhere anytime soon. Yet years of coddling, warnings, fans screaming at arenas and pounding out their keyboards at home, sportswriters and bloggers' diatribes, benchings... those approaches have not worked, and will not work. The one thing Josh wants, above all else, is the highlight play. And, blocks notwithstanding, he can't get those without someone allowing him the right he believes he has earned to handle the ball.

Indeed, the cure can be worse than the illness. And Josh needs to see the cure first-hand in order to get the clue he needs to get over his illness. Isolate the wound, and instead of the 1-on-none plays that Josh enjoys, play 4-on-5 on half the floor until Josh figures out he can even the odds by putting himself in positions where he can truly contribute. They're willfully going 4-on-5 anyway when he parks himself near the 3-point line. Starve the cold, don't feed it.

~lw3

At this point in both Josh's career and the franchise's sake, Josh needs to go. The only way for Josh to learn is to be put outside his comfort zone. He has been wearing the ATL uniform too long and at this point he will never learn from his mistakes. EVERYBODY on this team knows his role except Josh Smith. I am completely tired of Josh dribbling the ball up the court when he shouldn't, making passes he shouldn't, shooting jumpers when he shouldn't, and pouting on the court when he shouldn't. I don't care if it's Josh's fault or those around him; he has had more than enough chances to this point. It's time to trade this guy.

[Kimsey]

Josh was brick laying fool in the first half but the inability to stop the pick and roll with Lowry and just about everyone he passed it to was crazy. Kmart giving Joe fits on BOTH ends of the court was curious.

Why can't the team learn how to play the pick and roll. You obviously play deep underneath and force Lowry to shoot long jump shots. I mean 0-6 2 points with 18 assists. Being the last year of Drew hopefully some decent head coaches emerge.

Edited January 1, 2012 by Kimsey

[AtlHomer]

What's asinine is, giving him the ball over and over, as you say, "doing the same thing expecting a different result." He can't blunder if you don't give him the ball. If he is who he is going to be, stop setting him (and ourselves) up for failure.

~lw3

~lw3

Isn't the question also why is Josh positioned on the far side perimeter when the shot clock is winding down? Marvin would be a much better option for the kick out pass with Josh closer to the basket.

[capstone21]

I think Marvin should have been in there at PF last night instead of Josh. He was sitting because Tmac was playing well but Marvin has been our best/most aggressive player so far and probably would have done a better job.

[benhillboy]

Josh had a bad game that could've/ should've been much better. What else is new? I've learned not to get bent out of shape about him a long time ago. I'll just sit patiently and wait for the board to gush over him when he drops a triple-double, followed by another 2 good games, then an okay game, then two bad ones, then a horrible one, then a solid one, etc., so on and so forth. The Hawks have been flirting with the possibility of parting with Josh since they matched the Grizzlies years ago. I'm sure Sund has his lines open 24/7 if and when a mutually beneficial deal comes along from one of the few GMs who aren't turned off by the sheer mention of Josh's name. Until then, I'm quite at peace with taking the good with the bad, the awesome with the awful. I'm sure no one here has thought of any punishment or reprimandment for Josh's inconsistencies that the numerous coaching staffs he has played under haven't.

Edited January 1, 2012 by benhillboy

[Wretch]

I am evolving (albeit too slowly) past the point of having perennial conniptions over Josh's decisionmaking and positioning, and instead pointing the wagging finger toward our esteemed coaching staff. We have a roster and a coaching staff chock full of enablers around Mr. Smith (never mind certain members of the ownership group).

If you have the ball, and you turn your head to see Josh standing alone by the sideline waiting for an open shot, for chrissakes, turn your head the other way and find a Hawk who's not being doubled. If he's hoisting up prayers masquerading as shots because he can't find an open teammate, then the onus falls on the teammates for failing to get open, and on the coaching staff responsible for not setting up the offense properly. If he's lofting shots up around the perimeter because he's scared to put the ball on the floor and drive, that's on the coaching staff, too... how many more seasons of player development does he need to become comfortable taking the ball to the hole?

This team sees the same mistakes that we (and half of America) do, but keeps on feeding him the ball where he's least likely to succeed, knowing that 80% of the time it will result in a doomed possession. Each repeated blunder is indicative a collective failure, not just an individual one.

~lw3

^^^QFT - I need to frame this.

I'm not a Josh hater. But what I want to know is who here thinks Josh Smith's jumpers are key to our success? Really. How far are those jumpshots going to take us? Best case scenario, he'll hit a few clutch jump shots - which I would rather Joe, Marvin, Teague, Kirk, Horford, VladRad, or TMac taking. With all these more capable shooters, the question is...WHY are we allowing these shots from him? I'm not talking about 1 or 2, maybe 3 shots a game, which I'm perfectly fine with AS LONG AS HIS FEET ARE SET. I'm talking 5+, long range shots (some with a hand in his face) that have the potential to change our momentum.

We're not going to win like that. It's like.......just giving possessions away....

I also have to go on record saying that the Motion Offense^TM may have as much to do with this as Josh's hardheadedness. Ball movement is critical to the game. But too much ball movement, and we're creating a situation where it's anybody's shot on any given trip. I don't want all that predictable isolation offense back (although a balance is not a bad thing IMO). But there needs to be a pecking order for shots and to me Smoove is at the bottom of it.

I think Marvin should have been in there at PF last night instead of Josh. He was sitting because Tmac was playing well but Marvin has been our best/most aggressive player so far and probably would have done a better job.

I would take a jumper from Marvin 10 times out of 10...and I've felt that way even with his struggles the past couple of seasons.

[Wurider05]

What i I don't get is how in the hell was Marvin sitting on the bench in the fourth when Josh played the way he did. It's like no matter what Josh will have his way. Marvin probably doesn't complain so to the bench he goes. I saw no reason for Drew to do what he did. I just don't get it. They keep allowing this dude to do whatever he wants to with no consequence. What the hell is the difference between a 3 point shot and a shot 2 inches in front of the 3pt line? He is scared to be in the paint. His free throw shooting is regressing his turn the ball over a lot. He takes bad shots even when he is in the paint. But Marvin Williams is the one on the bench. I know that the Josh lovers are going to make excuses but he is doing the same stuff he has always been doing. He needs to be benched every time he does stupid things.

[Wretch]

Josh is faster, more athletic, and a much better scorer. If he would pattern his game more like this, he would be legendary and we would be a force.

...now imagine that he and Horf both decided to do some dirt.

That's all I want to see him doing...

[Joker]

Josh is faster, more athletic, and a much better scorer. If he would pattern his game more like this, he would be legendary and we would be a force.

...now imagine that he and Horf both decided to do some dirt.

Big Ben was smarter and could play any type of defense. When Smith gets smarter and stops playing like a tweener v. a beefy aggressive PF's, he would be close to Ben. He was a complete mess in the zone. I would rather him in the middle instead of Horford since Horford can actually play man defense.

[High5]

Josh is faster, more athletic, and a much better scorer. If he would pattern his game more like this, he would be legendary and we would be a force.

...now imagine that he and Horf both decided to do some dirt.

That's all I want to see him doing...

Wallace might be the strongest dude to ever play in the NBA. Josh can't really pattern his game after that.

[DJlaysitup]

One of the problems with sitting Smoove too much is this teams lack of length (IMO) . We have a 6-10-ish center, Smoove is 6-8, Marvin is 6-9 and at least up until this year, plays smaller than that. We simply need Smoove's athleticism and ability to sky for rebounds and threaten inside with his ability to block shots.

If we had a center like Curry it would open up a ton of options for LD...but we don't...so his options are limited.

let's face it - for years we have had two problems - we needed a big banger center and quality at PG. We seem to have fixed the PG problem (and will be in good shape once Kirk comes back) - but we still lack the big banger center.

Edited January 1, 2012 by DJlaysitup

[warcore]

there's no one worth trading him for except Dwight, which wouldn't happen.

Anybody have any suggestions of who to move him for?

[MaceCase]

Don't worry, the end is near.

[Deeman]

I love Josh but I think its time to move on. I would rather have Brandon Bass than Smoove at this point.

[Wretch]

Wallace might be the strongest dude to ever play in the NBA. Josh can't really pattern his game after that.

He's not going to outmuscle guys for boards, no. But if he were to focus more on playing closer to the basket (as opposed to launching ICBMs), his athleticism will more than make up for the strength difference. Josh is also a pretty big dude and plenty strong in his own right.

Blocking shots has nothing to do with strength and everything to do with timing. Josh has that - and the advantage of being left handed (meeting mostly right-handed shooters at the rim) and being more athletic. Add to this the fact that Josh is a better scorer, passer, and has a knack for steals. Not only can he pattern his game after Wallace, he can be a better Ben Wallace IMO.

Problem is, everybody (to include Smoove) is so much more concerned with his offensive output when his biggest contributions are everything BUT. If he'd focus on doing the dirt, staying closer to the basket, etc...Josh would be the most valuable piece to this team and a perennial All-Star.

Jacking up jumpers makes him a liability.

[DJlaysitup]

Don't worry, the end is near.

Honestly...I wouldn't worry about that. Word on the street in paleo-archeology circles is that the Mayan Chief gave his brother-in-law a lifetime contract as a calendar maker - as long as he kept working on the calendar he got paid - so he milked it for all it was worth. He finally expired from old age when he had just finished up the year 2012 and the budget was tight at that time so they didn't renew the contract with a new calendar maker.

(sorry, a bit O.T - but good news as far as planning for next year's free agency)

Edited January 2, 2012 by DJlaysitup

[MaceCase]

I meant his contract in particular.

[DJlaysitup]

I meant his contract in particular.

Oh......nevermind

[tonegully]

We dont need to get rid of Josh. LD needs to grow some balls. Me, as the coach of the Hawks would sacrifice some games by sitting Smoove when he goes against what him and I discussed. Simple as that. LD is the coach and if he gonna let Smoove do what he wants to do then find someone who is not scared to discipline Smoove. Simple as that.